EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI

[Lucas1138]

That is my (educated) assumption. I just don't immediately recall ever reading a description that matches that.

 

I'm glad there's still so much unknown about this movie. The entire plot of TFA was known at this point 2 years ago.

[Poe Dameron]

 

A few thoughts as I go through the trailer:

 

0:00: Kylo Ren looks remarkably like Hayden Christensen in that shot.

0:05: I like the knuckle walking redesign on the AT-ATs. Looks like there's going to be more new designs in this one. Also, the question needs to be asked whether Snoke is speaking of Kylo or Rey in this little bit. Based on previous experiences, my money is that we never find out because it's not in the movie.

0:35: That's pretty much confirmation that this movie begins right where the last one ended. Still think that's silly.

0:41: I think my eyes are failing me, because I can't recognize that artifact. Someone will probably figure it out soon enough.

0:49: Luke is amazed by Rey's power. Says he's only seen such raw strength once before. Vader? Palpatine? Kylo Ren? Yoda? Snoke? Himself? I'm going with Vader.

1:16: We're supposed to believe that Kylo Ren is about to kill Leia. I'm not buying it. This might well be two shots that are unrelated. If not, he won't pull the trigger here.

1:27: Seems that the Millennium Falcon flying through enclosed areas is something that's gonna happen in every movie. At least the crystal cave looks interesting. I'm willing to buy in on Chewie's little friend.

1:40: Oh yeah, Finn's in this fighting another Stormtrooper with a swordish weapon. Bleh. At least it took until near the end for him to show up.

1:47: Ice Fox!

1:53: Looks like Finn is going to get captured. Rescue mission for the 3rd Act? Finn went after Rey in the first movie, Rey goes after Finn? Could that be what Luke is warning her about? Is Rey about to leave her training early the same way Luke did?

1:59: And walk into a trap where Snoke captures her?

2:04: We're teased that Rey will join Kylo Ren. But if Rey has escaped Snoke, it may have been with Kylo Ren's aid. I'm a proponent of Kylo Ren being seduced by the light, but this is a bit early. Something else is going on here. Luke wants to kill the Jedi. Will Rey agree with him and join Kylo Ren in forming a whole new way?

[Lord Darth Hunter]

I think Snoke's line about "when I first found you..." at the start of the trailer is the same scene from the end of the trailer where he is saying "fulfill your destiny." You can see his yellow robe in the background in that shot of Rey screaming. He might be talking about her and not Kylo.

This is so weird. The first thing I noticed in the trailer is no R2 or C-3PO!

[Poe Dameron]

If he is speaking about Rey, it sounds like he's encountered her before. Maybe as a little girl before she was shipped off to Jakku?

 

Unless he's blowing smoke up Kylo Ren's butt, it seems unlikely he's talking about him. I just don't buy him as an elite-tier Force user and all indications are that neither does Snoke.

[DANA-kin Skywalker]

"he's only seen that power once before. It didn't scare me enough then. It does now". I think Luke's talking about Ben here. There's implied regret. He regrets training Ben and he destroyed Luke's entire order, amd doesn't want to make the same mistake twice. I can't rule out Snoke simply to leave room for the unknown (we know so little about him) but I'm pretty confident it's Ben.

 

looks like Ben is going to have a come to Jesus moment where he's to blow up the ship his mothers on. I can see that go both ways really, but I'm leaning towards no. It's a real convenient way to write Leia out of ep9 however. Tweak the ending of ep8 where he does in fact blow up her ship, then some other way to redeem him in ep9.

 

Looks like Rey gets captured by Snoke. Looks like Finn gets captured by the first order. My guess is that's the cliff hanger. Perhaps in ep9, Poe rescues Finn, Kylo rescues Rey, turns to the light side, and defeats Snoke with Rey's help.

[Darth Krawlie]

If Kylo turns good I'll be so mad. We need a dark character tempted to be good who sticks to being dark. That's really the only thing I'm adamant about for this trilogy: Kylo has to stay bad.

[DANA-kin Skywalker]

If he is speaking about Rey, it sounds like he's encountered her before. Maybe as a little girl before she was shipped off to Jakku?

 

Unless he's blowing smoke up Kylo Ren's butt, it seems unlikely he's talking about him. I just don't buy him as an elite-tier Force user and all indications are that neither does Snoke.

If we find out he wiped out a temple full of Jedi using the force, burying Luke under the destruction in his wake that could do it. That could also be the moment Kylo refers to when he prays to Darth Vader Mask.

[Odine]

Luke's line about raw strength and seeing it only once before is about Yoda. It's a direct reference to Empire when he's beginning training with Yoda and he says "I'm NOT afraid" and Yoda looks at him as though he's a child, the lighting goes slightly more red and he says "you WILL be... Yeah... you. WILL. BE. " and it's tense as fuck.

[pavonis]

"I've seen this raw strength only once before" is followed immediately by a cut to Luke buried by rubble, presumably the remains of his Jedi training ground. Since TFA establishes Kylo Ren/Ben Solo was responsible for that destruction, the implication is that the person with the raw power that didn't scare Luke was Kylo. Apparently Rey is a match for Kylo in strength.

Of course, nowadays lots of things - lines, effects, scenes - are only in trailers, even made just for the trailers. We will see if any of this sticks.

[Poe Dameron]

If Kylo turns good I'll be so mad. We need a dark character tempted to be good who sticks to being dark. That's really the only thing I'm adamant about for this trilogy: Kylo has to stay bad.

 

Being adamant about a possible storyline that they're clearly hinting at in a story that is cyclical in nature is a bit silly, isn't it? I mean, Kylo Ren flat out says he feels the pull of the light to Vader's helmet and remarks to Snoke that he won't be seduced. And he's easily the most conflicted Dark Side user that we've ever seen. At this point, the biggest point against it is how obvious the hints are.

 

Besides, we've only had one redemption from the Dark Side in the whole saga so far. There are plenty of baddies that have stayed bad.

 

It's quite possible we find out that Rey and Kylo aren't even in the same scene for those lines though. She could be talking to Ewan McGregor for all we know after Luke sends her on a vision quest in a cave like Yoda did to Luke.

 

 

 

Luke's line about raw strength and seeing it only once before is about Yoda. It's a direct reference to Empire when he's beginning training with Yoda and he says "I'm NOT afraid" and Yoda looks at him as though he's a child, the lighting goes slightly more red and he says "you WILL be... Yeah... you. WILL. BE. " and it's tense as ****.

 

Rey is Yoda's daughter confirmed!

 

That would be a nice reference. Outside of Anakin and maybe Luke, Yoda's probably the most innately powerful Force user in the series. And if he was showing off to Luke after hiding his powers during his deception, it would be a powerful display that we wouldn't be able to see.

 

There is also the whole "Fear is the path to the Dark Side".

 

 

 

looks like Ben is going to have a come to Jesus moment where he's to blow up the ship his mothers on. I can see that go both ways really, but I'm leaning towards no. It's a real convenient way to write Leia out of ep9 however. Tweak the ending of ep8 where he does in fact blow up her ship, then some other way to redeem him in ep9.

 

My guess is that he doesn't pull the trigger and she dies anyway.

 

 

 

If we find out he wiped out a temple full of Jedi using the force, burying Luke under the destruction in his wake that could do it. That could also be the moment Kylo refers to when he prays to Darth Vader Mask.

 

Well, he did have help with the Knights of Ren at minimum and perhaps Snoke.

 

I find it totally unlikely that a half-trained Kylo Ren was superior to Luke several years ago.

[pavonis]

Kylo may have been half-trained, but the evidence is pointing towards him having a lot of strength in the force, as does Rey. A half-trained student with a lot of strength makes for a dangerous pupil. Jedi training isn't just about techniques in using the force, it's about self-discipline and emotional control, too. Anakin Skywalker and Ben Solo clearly had issues with emotional balance and self-discipline.

 

Besides, if Luke were ambushed or sucker-punched, so to speak, he'd not be able to prevent the destruction of the Jedi, especially if the Knights of Ren were there, too. How long does it take to destroy a Jedi training facility? Minutes?

[Filthy Jawa]

1:40 Oh yeah, Finn's in this fighting another Stormtrooper with a swordish weapon. Bleh. At least it took until near the end for him to show up

Dude, that's Phasma.

[Filthy Jawa]

"I've seen this raw strength only once before" is followed immediately by a cut to Luke buried by rubble, presumably the remains of his Jedi training ground.

This is exactly the kind of thing I was referring to when I said I've been sufficiently misled. If the trailer makes the connection you point out, that's almost proof positive 100% that that isn't what the line refers to.

My money is "raw strength" refers to Vader. I also considered Palp and Yoda (but I don't buy the idea that he thinks he should have been afraid of it in this way -- even in spite of Yoda's dialogue). Vader is the guy who, within the spelled out story thus far, was supposed to be scary powerful.

[Filthy Jawa]

I find it totally unlikely that a half-trained Kylo Ren was superior to Luke several years ago.

Maybe, but he had help. And I really don't see where we ever get the idea that Luke is a powerful Jedi. He played it right in the OT, but he's a sort of half-trained Jedi who flirts with the darkside and wins the day, but is he a great Jedi? Is he that powerful? I don't think there's anything in the movies that definitely supports that. Maybe Kylo has more raw power than Luke.

 

[Lord Darth Hunter]

Good point, how powerful a Jedi was he if he hadn't been saved by Vader? He looked completely outmatched against Palpatine. And Vader only took it easy on him because he was his son. Had he just been any other Jedi, he would've never survived ESB.

[Kyrian]

Luke wasn't a Jedi, he was a weapon, primed and trained just enough to be dangerous and then pointed at Vader. Only, he discovered the truth about Vader and refused to kill him, and in the end, it was Vader himself who achieved what Yoda had been unable to do all those years before in the Senate building.

 

Jeez, Yoda really was crap at his job, wasn't he?

[pavonis]

 

"I've seen this raw strength only once before" is followed immediately by a cut to Luke buried by rubble, presumably the remains of his Jedi training ground.

This is exactly the kind of thing I was referring to when I said I've been sufficiently misled. If the trailer makes the connection you point out, that's almost proof positive 100% that that isn't what the line refers to.

 

I know that trailers can mislead, but they're also put together by people other than the director. Assuming that the trailer is intentionally misdirecting people seems almost paranoid.

 

My money is "raw strength" refers to Vader. I also considered Palp and Yoda (but I don't buy the idea that he thinks he should have been afraid of it in this way -- even in spite of Yoda's dialogue). Vader is the guy who, within the spelled out story thus far, was supposed to be scary powerful.

Palpatine, Vader, and Yoda are decades in the past. Why would they even be relevant to this story? If we imagine that only TFA existed, and Luke was this new mysterious Jedi character, would we assume that he's talking about a past Jedi long dead? Or would we assume he's referencing the lead villain in the story?

[Justus]

I think thats the planet with the Gorilla Walkers, right?

Ha. I thought the same. They look like they're walking on knuckles.

 

Trailer: Interesting.

 

Luke saying he was not afraid of the raw power of something/one in the past, but is now afraid almost suggests Palpatine, since Luke was rather fearless when facing him in ROTJ.

 

I think the cuts of Kylo and Leia, with the "kill the past to become who you were meant to be" dialogue was pure misdirection (and shamlessly playing on the fact Fisher is dead, so audience expect Leia to die in this film). Instead, it seems he might turn the screws on Rey to kill Luke.

 

Finn fighting Phasma. Hmm. TFA tried to create some tension between the two, based on a relationship never explored, so I hope some sort of backstory clears up why each cannot stand the other / finally coming to blows.

[Filthy Jawa]

I'll agree he could be talking about Kylo. I don't have any problem believing he could have that kind of power. After all, of he's supppsed to be Rey's nemesis, he has to be a threat.

But Vader has already been referenced in this trilogy. And this series seems to rely on audience knowledge of the PT (knowing Han and Leia's history, Han and Chewie's history, Luke's backstory to a point), so I don't think that's out of left field.

[Justus]

 

I find it totally unlikely that a half-trained Kylo Ren was superior to Luke several years ago.

Maybe, but he had help. And I really don't see where we ever get the idea that Luke is a powerful Jedi. He played it right in the OT, but he's a sort of half-trained Jedi who flirts with the darkside and wins the day, but is he a great Jedi? Is he that powerful? I don't think there's anything in the movies that definitely supports that. Maybe Kylo has more raw power than Luke.

 

Eh?

 

No less than two movies drop Mount Rushmore-sized statements telling the audience just how powerful Luke is--

 

Before Luke met Yoda in ESB, Palpatine says: "he could destroy us. The son of Skywalker must not become a Jedi."

In ROTJ, Yoda tells Luke he does not need additional training, while Palpatine and Vader--once again--speak of how strong Luke is. That's not talking about Luke as if he was a growing student. That phase ended after Cloud City. Luke reached a level of knighthood last seen (chronologically speaking) among the Jedi council.

 

For the guy who claimed to have "unlimited power" in ROTS, Palpatine seemed to genuinely fear Luke--even before he receives formal training. Yes, he was seeing a potential outcome through the Force, but Luke was always presented as an advanced case in how he accessed the Force, starting with using it to destroy the Death Star, singlehandedly taking down the AT-AT, to holding his own against Vader in ESB. Vader was testing him, but he was repeatedly caught off guard by Luke's remarkable progression.

 

Contrary to latter day GL (on LFL-approved documentaries) insisting that Luke was a "half trained boy" (which contradicts Yoda's ROTJ line), we did see Luke as a powerful Jedi.

[pavonis]

Luke is powerful. Kylo and Rey may outclass even him now, though. Is there an upper limit to force strength, and if so, is Luke necessarily at that level?

[Filthy Jawa]

Fair points about Luke. I always thought Palpatine feared him more from a prophecy kind of angle than raw power. He didn't seem to fear Luke at all on Death Star II.

 

And I thought catching Vader off guard was more that Vader didn't know Luke had been (or could possibly be) receiving training now that Obi-Wan was dead.

 

And sure Yoda tells him he doesn't need further training, he is a Jedi at that point... I shouldn't have said half-trained. He clearly got the rest of his training between ESB and ROTJ. I just never saw the evidence that he was necessarily anything more than an average Jedi. Remembering too that these are desperate times for Yoda.

 

But maybe I'm wrong.

[Lord Darth Hunter]

 

 

I find it totally unlikely that a half-trained Kylo Ren was superior to Luke several years ago.

Maybe, but he had help. And I really don't see where we ever get the idea that Luke is a powerful Jedi. He played it right in the OT, but he's a sort of half-trained Jedi who flirts with the darkside and wins the day, but is he a great Jedi? Is he that powerful? I don't think there's anything in the movies that definitely supports that. Maybe Kylo has more raw power than Luke.

 

Eh?

 

No less than two movies drop Mount Rushmore-sized statements telling the audience just how powerful Luke is--

 

Before Luke met Yoda in ESB, Palpatine says: "he could destroy us. The son of Skywalker must not become a Jedi."

In ROTJ, Yoda tells Luke he does not need additional training, while Palpatine and Vader--once again--speak of how strong Luke is. That's not talking about Luke as if he was a growing student. That phase ended after Cloud City. Luke reached a level of knighthood last seen (chronologically speaking) among the Jedi council.

 

For the guy who claimed to have "unlimited power" in ROTS, Palpatine seemed to genuinely fear Luke--even before he receives formal training. Yes, he was seeing a potential outcome through the Force, but Luke was always presented as an advanced case in how he accessed the Force, starting with using it to destroy the Death Star, singlehandedly taking down the AT-AT, to holding his own against Vader in ESB. Vader was testing him, but he was repeatedly caught off guard by Luke's remarkable progression.

 

Contrary to latter day GL (on LFL-approved documentaries) insisting that Luke was a "half trained boy" (which contradicts Yoda's ROTJ line), we did see Luke as a powerful Jedi.

 

Yeah, Palpatine looked scared to death of Luke while zapping the crap out of him in ROTJ.

[Odine]

Now that you guys mention it, I think Pav and Justice are both right. His "raw strength" comment is about Snoke and Palpatine.

 

Luke wasn't afraid of palpatine at the time... And he should've been. Now he is feeling Snoke's power, which is only compatible to palpatines, and being grown up and all... now he is afraid.

[Filthy Jawa]

I like how they tie the series' together in how Rey wields the lightsaber kind of like Luke did: swinging away like it's a baseball bat, only she finishes with precision.