Ranking the Lightsaber Duels

[Poe Dameron]

Just to move the argument:

 

1. Luke vs. Vader (ESB)

2. Luke vs. Vader (RotJ)

3. Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon vs. Maul (TPM)

4. Obi-Wan vs. Anakin and Palpatine vs. Yoda (RotS)

5. Obi-Wan and Anakin vs. Dooku (RotS)

6. Obi-Wan vs. Jango Fett (AotC)*

7. Obi-Wan vs. Vader (ANH)

8. Rey and Finn vs. Kylo Ren (TFA)

9. Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Yoda vs. Dooku (AotC)

10. Mace Windu and Friends vs. Palpatine (RotS)

11. Obi-Wan vs. Grievous (RotS)

12. Finn vs. "Traitor!" (TFA)

 

 

*Including it because I can. Cool little fight.

[RamonAtila]

1 Luke Vader esb

2 duel.of the fates TPM

3 anakin obi wan rots

 

The rest who cares

[Guest]

1. Luke vs Vader ESB

2. Luke vs Vader ROTJ

3. Obi-Wan vs Vader ANH

 

And I'm pretty well on record as hating every "fight" from the prequels, so no need to repeat myself.

[Mara Jade Skywalker]

Luke/Vader ROTJ

Luke/Vader ESB

Rey/Kylo Ren TFA

Yoda/Palpatine ROTS

Obi-Wan/Qui-Gon/Maul TPM

Obi-Wan/Anakin ROTS

Obi-Wan/Anakin/Dooku AOTC

Obi-Wan/Vader ANH

 

If the R1 scene counts, it gets #1.

[Driver]

Luke/Vader ESB

Luke/Vader ROTJ

Rey/Kylo TFA

QuiGon/Obi-Wan/Maul TPM

Palpatine/Mace/Anakin ROTS

Obi-Wan/Anakin ROTS

Palpatine/Yoda ROTS

Obi-Wan/Anakin/Dooku ROTS

Obi-Wan/Vader ANH

Anakin/Obi-Wan/Dooku/Yoda AOTC

[Justus]

1. Luke vs Vader ESB

2. Luke vs Vader ROTJ

3. Obi-Wan vs Vader ANH

 

And I'm pretty well on record as hating every "fight" from the prequels, so no need to repeat myself.

Agreed. The others do not come close, catering to the worst of GL's fan servicing impulses. OT duels all carried much weight not only for the participants, but the overall SW story. Each was a "shot heard round" the SW galaxy.

[Tex]

Luke Vader ESB

Maul TPM

Luke Vader ROTJ

Kylo TFA

Yoda Palp ROTS

 

The rest were just there. Some decent, some bad, the biggest dissapointment being Obi/Anakin ROTS. After waiting for 30 years it was odd to see them showed up by Yoda Palp. It was like watching a bad Wrestlemania where a mid card match totally outdid the main event.

[DANA-kin Skywalker]

I have a question. What's the weakest part of every single prequel duel? When someone ACTULLY gets hit. Thats the problem with these fights. They fight so perfectly and for such long durations such that when it's time for someone to lose, you don't believe it. It's like someone has to LET themselves get hit, or resort to temporary stupidity, or take a pratfall or something. It maybe fun watching the flawless choreography for a bit, but thats all offset by the piss poor ending. So for me they are a mixed bag. Take that, and throw in the fact that I don't actually like the rest of the movies, I'm not ACTUALLY caring about the characters, or invested in the story, or any of it. So, it's hard for me to appreciate the pretty colors hitting each other really fast and flawless ninja-like choreography when u just don't care about why.

 

ESB: Story. Characters. Exciting and shocking ending,

ROTJ: Story. Characters. Satisfaying ending.

ANH: Story. Characters.

TFA: Characters. Setting.

TPM: Visuals. Sound.

ROTS: Visuals.

AOTC: ass.

 

Edit: I can't think of one positive for AOTC...so ass it is. And I agree that lightsabers ruined both Yoda and Palpatine.

[Filthy Jawa]

Yoda should never have wielded a light saber. There I said it.

[Poe Dameron]

I have a question. What's the weakest part of every single prequel duel? When someone ACTULLY gets hit. Thats the problem with these fights. They fight so perfectly and for such long durations such that when it's time for someone to lose, you don't believe it.

 

Not sure you want to go there. The weakest ending for all the duels by far was Return of the Jedi where Vader weirdly just rests on a railing so that Luke could easily lop off his hand.

 

Of the Prequels, the only lightsaber blow from a fight I thought was outright poorly done was Anakin losing his arm in Attack of the Clones. And that wasn't due to length, it was a fairly short fight, it was because of the choreography itself where he had his arm out for the purpose of cutting, not fighting.

 

Not that there were all that many other lightsaber blows in the Prequels. Qui-Gon's was preceded by a break in the action and then a slowed-down pace and ominous change in music. Dooku dominated Obi-Wan and sliced his arm and leg in only a few seconds. Kenobi lopped off two of Grievous's arms almost as soon as the fight started. And, of course, Obi-Wan on the high ground against Anakin was expressly telegraphed.

 

The only other time where you could say that the end of a lightsaber duel came as a surprise was Anakin slicing off Dooku's hands in RotS. And that was rather meant to be shockingly abrupt, soon to be followed by Anakin murdering Dooku.

[DANA-kin Skywalker]

Maul watching himself getting leapfrogged then turn around to be cut in half is beyond pathetic, especially after his impossible god-like swordsmanship displayed immediately before. I guess Maul skipped learning Up Thrust from the man in Darunia Town.

 

And ROTJ...Luke was hacking away like a demon knocking Vader's saber around. It's not like he stopped defending himself.

[Poe Dameron]

Maul watching himself getting leapfrogged then turn around to be cut in half is beyond pathetic, especially after his impossible god-like swordsmanship displayed immediately before. I guess Maul skipped learning Up Thrust from the man in Darunia Town.

 

Maul was taken by surprise. I didn't include it because it wasn't really part of the fight itself. He literally wasn't defending himself when it happened. I said on the other thread that I didn't like the ending either and thought it was the weakest aspect, but it's not the same as what you were complaining about either. I mean, there's obviously a REASON why it happened and the blow didn't just come out of nowhere.

 

 

 

It's not like he stopped defending himself.

 

Actually it's exactly like that. He ducked under one of Luke's strikes and then he's suddenly helplessly holding onto a rail to stand up and only defending himself by sticking his lightsaber in front of him. Luke could have done anything he wanted, but chose to take several pointless angry swings at Vader's lightsaber before cutting off his hand.

 

There was no reason at all for why he would suddenly become so defenseless. Luke hadn't struck him or had nearly enough time to wear him down to the point of exhaustion. Luke didn't even push him up against it, he went to the railing completely under his own power. It was just time for Vader to lose so he laid down. Seriously, check it out at about the 1:40 mark and explain how he didn't just suddenly stop fighting.

 

[Guest El Chalupacabra]

1. Luke VS Vader TESB
2. Luke VS Vader ROTJ

3. QuiGon & Obi-Wan VS Maul TPM

4.Vader VS Rebels, Rogue One

5. Luke VS Jabba's skiff guards and bounty hunters ROTJ

6. Anakin & Obi-Wan VS Dooku ROTS

7. Palpatine (and later Anakin) VS Mace and jedi masters ROTS

8. Obi Wan VS Cantina Scum and Villainy

9. Obi Wan VS Vader ANH

10. OBI Wan VS Jango Fett AOTC

11. Kylo Ren VS Village

12. Luke VS Cave Vision Vader TESB

13. Obi Wan VS General Grievous
13. Rey/Kylo TFA
14. Obi-Wan VS Anakin ROTS (would have ranked much higher if it wasn't for the lava surfing)
15. Anakin & Obi-Wan VS Dooku AOTC
16. Palpatine VS Yoda ROTS

17. Dooku VS Yoda AOTC

 

Runners up and if The Clone Wars and Rebels counted:

1. Vader VS Ahsoka

2. Palpatine VS Maul & Savage

3. Vader VS Kanan & Ezra

4. Dooku VS Ventress & Night Sisters

5. Maul and Savage VS Ventress & Obi Wan

[Mara Jade Skywalker]

I was thinking of the Vader/Ahsoka fight, too. It would go up there on my list IF the ending hasn't been ambiguous. STICK THE LANDING, FILONI.

[Guest]

In my opinion, the PT fights were devoid of emotion (much like all of the PT) and were more dance than battle. They all would fit in more with Cirque de Soleil rather than people actually trying to hurt each other. Constant twirling and leaving your body unprotected just doesn't do it for me.

 

I can understand why people like it, but I'll take the quiet moment of two masters feeling each other out in ANH over any moment in the PT.

[Justus]

I have a question. What's the weakest part of every single prequel duel? When someone ACTULLY gets hit. Thats the problem with these fights. They fight so perfectly and for such long durations such that when it's time for someone to lose, you don't believe it. It's like someone has to LET themselves get hit, or resort to temporary stupidity, or take a pratfall or something. It maybe fun watching the flawless choreography for a bit, but thats all offset by the piss poor ending. So for me they are a mixed bag. Take that, and throw in the fact that I don't actually like the rest of the movies, I'm not ACTUALLY caring about the characters, or invested in the story, or any of it. So, it's hard for me to appreciate the pretty colors hitting each other really fast and flawless ninja-like choreography when u just don't care about why.

 

ESB: Story. Characters. Exciting and shocking ending,

ROTJ: Story. Characters. Satisfaying ending.

ANH: Story. Characters.

TFA: Characters. Setting.

TPM: Visuals. Sound.

ROTS: Visuals.

AOTC: ass.

 

Edit: I can't think of one positive for AOTC...so ass it is. And I agree that lightsabers ruined both Yoda and Palpatine.

The heart of the matter. The PT duels were as lifeless as most of the performances in that trilogy. With not a particle of emotional/character investment for the audience, it was exactly as Lucas wanted it: flashing lightsabers, but nothing serving character and the greater needs of the story...which is not stuntmen falling over to the tune of some bit of music. Or, one of the biggest takeaways / problem: the painfully obvious choreography to the point you could almost see the actors counting their moves.

 

• TPM: the defense of the final duel is usually based on how "badass" Maul was, with some claim that it was Kenobi's coming of age moment.

Maul was SW geek eye candy--and a character that made Hasbro/Kenner happy for a moment in time. Kenobi did not have a true coming of age story, despite TPM's copy+paste of ANH's apprentice-watches-mentor-killed-by-dark-villain scene. He had no personal development, other than he was supposed to get by being Young Alec Guinness, and bickering with Jinn. That's all--leaving nothing for the characters and audience to feel during the duel.

 

In ANH, by the time Vader cut down Kenobi, both Obi-Wan and Luke were well developed as individual and as friends/mentor/apprentice, so the audience felt the weight of the duel, and Luke's anguish. Fantastic, important and tragic...not a thrill ride. Vader's "This will be a day long remembered. It has seen the end of Kenobi.." had meaning for the SW galaxy from every POV--the villains, heroes...and the audience, all because of how well the characters were developed so the duel/death was not just another random fight.

 

• AOTC: Soooo, Dooku believed the only way to rate the superior combatant is through lightsaber skills...and Yoda agreed?

 

All just to play into the worst of GL/fanboy impulses by having the ONE Jedi who should never need to use a weapon turn into yet another emotion / consequence-free FX display.

 

• ROTS: While McGregor became the believable focus of the PT, his other half--Anakin--robbed their duel of any power.

Christensen's heavy-footed lurching forward and too-rehearsed moves brought nothing to a duel that was supposed to be the fateful launchpad of the rest of the saga--setting the characters' fate in stone. Scowling Anakin, the endless, unbelievable-even-for-sci-fi lava stunt show and the BS "high ground" (which only seems to work for protagonists) failed to be the galactic turning point we were told it would be.

 

SW duels are not a video game or fan service exercises, the reason only three of the seven main duels (IOW, not Jinn/Maul 1, Windu/Palpatine, Kenobi/Anakin/Dooku) work.

[Driver]

Maul had the high ground on Obi-wan... fat load of good it did him. Somewhere inside of all the overly check-ed environment and pointless twirling and spinning and terrible acting there's a decent duel between Obi-Wan and Anakin.

 

Carrying just the weight the confrontation has from the OT and a LOT of editing, there's something there.

 

Maybe if ROTS didn't exist and tiny bits of the duel were intercut with the ANH duel something cool could exist.

 

.... or not. Hayden's face ruins everything.

[Filthy Jawa]

I can't agree more with everything Justus said.

[3 & 6 years to go...]

Hayden is dreamy. Stop it.

[Guest El Chalupacabra]

Somewhere inside of all the overly check-ed environment and pointless twirling and spinning and terrible acting there's a decent duel between Obi-Wan and Anakin.

 

I agree that it was a pretty good duel right up until they started climbing the tower and continued the duel as they climbed. Then of course, there's the lava surfing.

 

It's been like over 30 years since I read the novelization of ROTJ so I may not be remembering it right, but I seem to remember Obi Wan mentioning to Luke that he dueled Vader at the top of a volcano, defeated Vader, and left him near a lava flow, certain he perished. More or less what happened in ROTS, I guess, but the duel we got was nothing like what I pictured. I wish the duel more resembled the TESB Luke VS Vader duel and omitted the lava surfing.

[Filthy Jawa]

I don't think Obi Wan said anything like that.

 

But I'm old and senile.

 

(Edit - oh, you said in the novel. Me read good)

[Driver]

Yeah, the volcano duel was unconfirmed canon for decades.

[Poe Dameron]

Constant twirling and leaving your body unprotected just doesn't do it for me.

 

I can understand why people like it, but I'll take the quiet moment of two masters feeling each other out in ANH over any moment in the PT.

 

It was there in the Original Trilogy as well. Alec Guiness even did a super-slow spin move for no reason five seconds into that brief A New Hope duel that you're praising for not having it.

 

Going off on a bit of a tangent, so this isn't directed at a particular person. It's pretty disappointing to see so many responses just be a new excuse for people to hate on the Prequels and not actually taking the scenes for what they are. Especially if you're going to give applause to the lousy and uninspired The Force Awakens duel. It's one of those cases where I just KNOW that if you cut and pasted it into The Prequels, it'd be subject to abuse itself, except it would be justified.

 

It feels as though arms are crossed and it's just been decided that anything Prequels is wrong and it's wrong even to put it within a set of rankings and instead taking an opportunity to announce how terrible it all is.

 

 

 

It's been like over 30 years since I read the novelization of ROTJ so I may not be remembering it right, but I seem to remember Obi Wan mentioning to Luke that he dueled Vader at the top of a volcano, defeated Vader, and left him near a lava flow, certain he perished.

 

I think it actually comes from Vader's memory just before he dies. He recalls molten lava crawling up his back.

 

Of course in the Return of the Jedi novelization, Owen Lars was Obi-Wan's brother. It's one of those things that we "knew" about the Prequels, but Lucas could well have wadded it up and tossed it aside if he wanted. But it was something that had taken more a hold of the fan base.

[Lucas1138]

If you had asked me how many lightsaber duels there are in the movies before reading this thread ranking 46 different ones I probably would have said "I don't know, like 6?"

 

I don't know, this is hard. Tiers are easier.

 

Cool, not silly

Luke/Darth Vader on Death Star II - ROTJ

Obi-Wan/Qui-Gon/Maul on Naboo - TPM

Luke/Darth Vader in Cloud City - ESB

 

Cool, maybe silly, or something else was off

Obi-Wan/Anakin on Mustafar - ROTS

Rey/Kylo Ren on Starkiller Base (lmao still so stupid) - TFA

Mace et al./Palpatine on Coruscant - ROTS

 

Actually not bad, but not standout

Anakin/Obi-Wan/Dooku on Grievous Ship - ROTS

Maul / Qui-Gon on Tattooine - TPM (underrated!)

 

Boring, dumb, silly, or some combination of all three

Obi-Wan/Darth Vader on Death Star - ANH

Anakin/Obi-Wan/Dooku on Geonosis - AOTC

Yoda/Dooku on Geonosis - AOTC

Yoda/Palpatine on Coruscant

Obi-Wan/Grievous - ROTS

[Guest El Chalupacabra]

It's been like over 30 years since I read the novelization of ROTJ so I may not be remembering it right, but I seem to remember Obi Wan mentioning to Luke that he dueled Vader at the top of a volcano, defeated Vader, and left him near a lava flow, certain he perished.

 

I think it actually comes from Vader's memory just before he dies. He recalls molten lava crawling up his back.

 

Of course in the Return of the Jedi novelization, Owen Lars was Obi-Wan's brother. It's one of those things that we "knew" about the Prequels, but Lucas could well have wadded it up and tossed it aside if he wanted. But it was something that had taken more a hold of the fan base.

 

Yeah, like I said, it's been so long my memory may be playing tricks on me. But, if there were ever a question that Jedi Cool could answer, my money would be this would be it.