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The I've Seen Rogue One Thread (spoilers OBV)


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Guest El Chalupacabra

 

I also think it's worth pointing out that they're cargo variants of the AT-AT (AT-ACT I think it is), which would have less armour than the front-line variants we saw in ESB, plus the enormous hole in the side that the cargo pods would fit in to would create a glaring structural weakness which would make them easier to take down than the ESB AT-ATs.

If I hadn'rt already said it I would applaud!!

 

 

 

I noticed that there was minor differences, and I knew something was off about them, particularly the legs being longer, but didn't think much about it, and just assumed they were AT-ATs retrofitted since they were by the ocean. I just chalked the tan mid section off as camouflage or something, and didn't even notice the smaller cannons. I wasn't bothered by the Xwings taking them out, thanks to years of playing the Rogue Squadron games. But when you look at the two side by side, you can see a pretty significant difference.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/All_Terrain_Armored_Cargo_Transport

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/All_Terrain_Armored_Transport

 

 

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I'm tippy-tapping this out on my tablet so I'm going to be a little m. brief than usual.

 

THE GOOD

 

Jyn nonchalantly kneecapping that stormtrooper w/out even looking at him, just walking by and a blaster shot to his leg, ba-boom, wonderful. Darth Vader cutting down rebel troops, sans mercy, sans pity, sans effort. Ben Mendlesohn's performance. Forest Whitaker's line delivery. Donnie Yen's little stroll. Plenty of good open handed slaps to the face, that's always a treat.

 

THE BAD

 

Just ... all of it (?). Almost all of it. Our main character makes a decision offscreen not to join the good guys no more, unconvincingly makes a decision onscreen to join up w/them 4 real (after first, to be fair, making a fairly convincing decision to halfheartedly join up so she can clear her name somehow and have a chat w/her dad), and then dies in a loving embrace with a guy who didnt't seem like the kinda guy she would hug if it was her last day alive (which, to be fair, it was and the movie did try a little to sell it, just not to my satisfaction)?

 

Moustacheman is a murderer who follows orders, decides for some reason not to murder Mikkelsen at the exact moment he has to (how Mikkelsen dies has escaped my memory mere minutes after end of movie, i think maybe he gets killed by x-wings, half the movie is leading up to this guy's death and i couldn't tell you how he died or what his last words to Jyn were, other than apparently he did the Death Star'S flaw, duuuumb, no wait we knew that from the hologram before, what did he tell her, did he tell her to go the library beach planet, maybe ???,) and then decides no more following orders but is up for some free-range murder for the movie's final battle until at the very end he's all about ordering Jyn not to murder? I just think this character's relationship to murder, order-following, and our main character too was a bit muddled and all the changes over the course of the movie to those 3 areas felt a little ..... unearned.

 

If we can just recreate the faces of the dead and the dying now why not just go the extra mile and make this a Leia Vs. Tarkin movie instead of sparingly showing us them a little bit at a time? If that's too expensive for them then I would have preferred for them to spend that money on making the droid's mouth move when he talks, that's the kind of movie magic i like, make me forget that they're punching up his dialogue in post-production, make his quips really land for me, come on, i missed his death scene because i had to go the bathroom (Bodhi's too) but if a Star War can't win a fight with my bladder how is it gonna win over my heart? Or my mind? Keep my butt in my seat, Star War, that's all I ask.

 

It shouldn't be that tough to do, and to be fair, they tried real hard on this one. I get the feeling that there is going to be a Star Wars where everyone involved tried real hard coming out once a year from now until the end of time itself but so far these two new Star Wars seem to mostly make me miss the bad ones, the ones where they were either not trying too hard or trying their best at something I don'T REally feel should be tried at, the bad ones were at least an honest expression of their creator's intentions and thesenew ones just feel ... somehow both empty and over-stuffed all at once.

 

THE HOPELESSLY NERDY

 

Ion torpedoes??

 

Scan docs???

 

Kyber crystals in the Death Star???

 

Pitch-adjusted Wilhelm scream???

 

Blue milk on an arboreal world??? Blue Squadron is real, its not just the version of Red Squadron in the novellization???

 

Oola is space-famous???

 

Dr. Evazan doesn'T LIKE everybody out there, it'snot just LUKE, whats the deal w/ that ???

 

Nobody tells CThreepio anything but he gets tobe in the movie regardless, and are the new Star Wars just going to all end on a silent or monosyllabic member of the Original Three's face, is thatjust going to be their default ending???

 

"First non-episodic stand-alone Star Wars theatrical release" whaat where those ewok films just a fever dream ofmine or do they not count in the official standings, not to mention the dumb clone warsfilm with the truman capote Hutt?

 

We were all sort of wrong about the title and whichever one of us argued it'd be about a different group was sort of right???

 

[Edit: forgot Jyn saving the crying kid; best bit in the flick by far; best justification for the tonal shift of thefilm vis a vis the rest of the franchise; feel in general that if anything this movie was TOO optimistic on its own terms; it can'T REAlly commit to the triumph of evil, in this movie evil destroys the bad along w/the good in the end instead of evil destroying the good and the good alone, krennic should have survived, krennic should have been the only one of the film's new characters to live, in the end he should have been the Rogue One, but the film had an ultimate limit on its willingness to be about the things it wanted to be about ... or maybe not, i am a little undecided here, i think there is room formovement here, i kinda get the feeling that unlike TFA this one might improve substantially for me if i see it a second time, here'shoping]

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I get the feeling that there is going to be a Star Wars where everyone involved tried real hard coming out once a year from now until the end of time itself but so far these two new Star Wars seem to mostly make me miss the bad ones, the ones where they were either not trying too hard or trying their best at something I don'T REally feel should be tried at, the bad ones were at least an honest expression of their creator's intentions and these new ones just feel ... somehow both empty and over-stuffed all at once.

I just read a review about this. As bad as some felt the PT was, you can still tell it's Lucas telling the story he felt he HAD to tell, his vision. The new films don't have that feel. They are not something these guys HAD to tell. They are a film lottery they won and got to play with. The vision they were TOLD to make.
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It is hilarious to read people criticize making more Star Wars movies in comparison to George's "innocent" making of the prequels. Actually, it's hilarious how fandom has seemed to put George on a pedestal since he sold the franchise. I love the guy, but....no.

 

Then again I've read the books for almost 25 years so milking Star Wars for a profit has never been new to me.

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I'm not saying anyone has to or should like Rogue One. I'm not saying anyone has to or should like The Force Awakens. However I do kinda think that if you don't like either of those movies you may be just done with Star Wars at this point. I just don't think they are going to be able to make a movie you enjoy.

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I'm not saying anyone has to or should like Rogue One. I'm not saying anyone has to or should like The Force Awakens. However I do kinda think that if you don't like either of those movies you may be just done with Star Wars at this point. I just don't think they are going to be able to make a movie you enjoy.

That would assume that these movies are as good as they can do. And, frankly, I think there's plenty of room for improvement.

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A new SW film as good as ESB is never going to happen because we already have ESB. They'll never be able to recreate the variables that made that film great. It would be like The Beatles getting back together 40 years later (if they were all still alive) and expecting them to be able to recreate what they did back in the 60's.

 

It is hilarious to read people criticize making more Star Wars movies in comparison to George's "innocent" making of the prequels. Actually, it's hilarious how fandom has seemed to put George on a pedestal since he sold the franchise. I love the guy, but....no.

What's hilarious is people who assume those things are mutually exclusive.
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Even leaving aside the fanboyish declarations that Empire Strikes Back cannot be topped, there is still plenty of room for improvement. The two films we have rank on the low side of good (TFA) and high side of good (Rogue One). We're still waiting for a new movie that puts everything together.

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MV5BMjA3MzYyNDgxNF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMzgwMV5BNjU2NzY0NDY4NF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwNDYy

 

Just thought I'd post the pictures of the actors who played Tarkin and Leia respectively (Guy Henry and Ingvild Deila - Pictures from IMDB).

 

As you can see they went for facial look-alikes to make the CG mapping work. There are obvious flaws because of the slightly different faces but if you take that in to account the technology they used to bring those people to life is just stunning. It was a very brave thing to do. Guy Henry is significantly taller than Peter Cushing which is an unfortunate side-effect but you can see why they chose them. I think it's only right that a bit of the actor comes through in the performance.

 

On second watch yesterday, I had a good look and I have to say that as much as we can tell it's CG, I'd say that in 60-70% of the shots it's absolutely spot on. In fact when Leia half-turns it looks just like her, it's only when the actor turns full face that you can see her face is slightly longer than Carrie Fisher's was.

 

Hats off to them for what they did because bringing Leia, Tarkin and Vader to life again were special moments in the film for me.

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I loved the opening of this movie. Reminds me of Inglorious Basterds or Good Bad and the Ugly.

 

I'm grateful for.this movie simply for.connecting the OT to the PT, which I've always felt was so.necessary.

 

I am extremely grateful to see the.death star in action. To me the scenes with Tarkin and the death Star blasts were some of the most beautiful shots in the whole series.

 

I couldn't get over Leia saying hope. It was clearly her saying hope from ANH! God!

 

Overall this movie was just beautiful to look at, especially the shots orbiting the beach planet. Hella more beautiful than TFA. Which makes me.wonder, why couldn't they make TFA look.as good as R1? Was it JJs fault?

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I loved the opening of this movie. Reminds me of Inglorious Basterds or Good Bad and the Ugly.

 

I'm grateful for.this movie simply for.connecting the OT to the PT, which I've always felt was so.necessary.

 

I am extremely grateful to see the.death star in action. To me the scenes with Tarkin and the death Star blasts were some of the most beautiful shots in the whole series.

 

I couldn't get over Leia saying hope. It was clearly her saying hope from ANH! God!

 

Overall this movie was just beautiful to look at, especially the shots orbiting the beach planet. Hella more beautiful than TFA. Which makes me.wonder, why couldn't they make TFA look.as good as R1? Was it JJs fault?

 

And you guys hyped.up the Vader attack too much. It was less than perfect for me because you.guys praised it too much.

 

For anyone worried that the.lightsaber battle in ANH will look ridiculous.after this, just.look at Tarkin. I'm sure they'll pull a GL are.reshoot them while Obi.wan and Vader battle. Prolly make them use a.lot of force pushes and pulls

I loved the opening of this movie. Reminds me of Inglorious Basterds or Good Bad and the Ugly.

 

I'm grateful for.this movie simply for.connecting the OT to the PT, which I've always felt was so.necessary.

 

I am extremely grateful to see the.death star in action. To me the scenes with Tarkin and the death Star blasts were some of the most beautiful shots in the whole series.

 

I couldn't get over Leia saying hope. It was clearly her saying hope from ANH! God!

 

Overall this movie was just beautiful to look at, especially the shots orbiting the beach planet. Hella more beautiful than TFA. Which makes me.wonder, why couldn't they make TFA look.as good as R1? Was it JJs fault?

 

And you guys hyped.up the Vader attack too much. It was less than perfect for me because you.guys praised it too much.

 

For anyone worried that the.lightsaber battle in ANH will look ridiculous.after this, just.look at Tarkin. I'm sure they'll pull a GL are.reshoot them while Obi.wan and Vader battle. Prolly make them use a.lot of force pushes and pulls

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Guest El Chalupacabra

If you are going in expecting The Empire Strikes Back you are just always going to be disappointed.

If The Empire Strikes back came out today, some people would still complain.

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Re: Tarkin/Leia

 

My girlfriend (more or less totally new to Star Wars) didn't pick up anything weird about Tarkin. She thought something might have been up with Leia after I asked her because she knew Princess Leia was a 40 year old character.

 

So I think it's because we know Cushing has been dead for 20 years. It would probably be "obvious" upon close examination, but you don't get that in the confines of the movie.

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I thought Tarkin was a similar looking actor at first, but then I realized he wasn't and just wondered if it was a digital double mainly done via match moving using regraded archive film of Peter Cushing instead of whatever they actually did, and then I just went with it.

 

So much of Tarkin's menace is in his voice, so maybe I just didn't look at the CG element that closely.

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It varied shot to shot. I honestly thought TArkin was all make up until he started showing more expressions.

 

Leia was perfect until she looked up and her eyes gave it away. It always the eyes.

 

I know they lifted her dialog from the OT, Fischer has chain smoker voice now so there was no way she could do it.

 

but most of Tarkin's dialog was new and it sounded perfect.

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Overall this movie was just beautiful to look at, especially the shots orbiting the beach planet. Hella more beautiful than TFA. Which makes me.wonder, why couldn't they make TFA look.as good as R1? Was it JJs fault?

TFA feels to me like it's what the original Star Wars would have been if JJ Abrams had directed it, whereas we all wanted more Star Wars. TFA never felt like Star Wars, whereas Rogue One really did.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

It varied shot to shot. I honestly thought TArkin was all make up until he started showing more expressions.

 

Leia was perfect until she looked up and her eyes gave it away. It always the eyes.

 

I know they lifted her dialog from the OT, Fischer has chain smoker voice now so there was no way she could do it.

 

but most of Tarkin's dialog was new and it sounded perfect.

I read that they had stand in actors/actresses, and they CGIed the faces in. As far as Tarkin's voice, they used the same voice actor from TCW.

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If The Empire Strikes back came out today, some people would still complain.

 

I'm sure. But it would still be an excellent movie. Nostalgia goggles or not, I think I can look at the movie and acknowledge that it does have some flaws, but it's still easily better than either The Force Awakens or Rogue One.

 

Besides, it's not like The Empire Strikes Back had it easy. It was the middle film, it was the "dark" film where the heroes got their butts kicked at a time when Hollywood blockbusters just didn't do that. It was made the least amount of money. Its best established actor, Alec Guiness, would only have a glorified cameo, and its second-best actor Peter Cushing was killed off in the last movie. Vader, mask and all, would have to represent the Empire on his own.

 

Oh, and it was the first movie to follow-up what had already become a cultural touchstone.

 

If you'd taken a poll in the mid-80s, The Empire Strikes Back would have come in 3rd for best Star Wars film. It took most of a decade to pass before conventional wisdom started to consolidate around ESB being the best of the Original Trilogy. Though I'm strongly leaning more and more towards A New Hope as the years pass. It could easily have become the forgotten Star Wars movie. So ESB got its reputation the hard way. Not through hype, not through being the bigger phenomenon, but by simply being THAT DAMN GOOD.

 

 

 

It varied shot to shot. I honestly thought TArkin was all make up until he started showing more expressions.

 

I mentioned this a bit earlier, but I think the reason why I looked past any flaws in the CGI that made it less than perfect, though, frankly, it was a damn good effect, was that Peter Cushing's face is so distinct. His skull-like features already look subtly alien (no offense intended towards Cushing!) which allowed for a bit more room for fakery before hitting the uncanny valley. Even though human's are traditionally tougher than aliens, Tarkin reads more real than Snoke ever did, that's for sure.

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The only thing that ESB would fail on by today's standards is the pacing. Modern audiences would complain it was boring since a lot happens in the middle without major action. Even TFA and R1 don't go more than 20 minutes without some action. This is a throwback to action films when it was decided at some point that every reel of a film (reels are roughly 20 minutes) needed an action beat. That got beat into the Hollywood hivemind and remains in the digital age.

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