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I have been biting my fingers on this one for a while, but I really am tired of this Black Lives Bull****.


FBI murder figures from 2014 for murders committed by race



White - 4,367

Black - 5,173


Demographics


White population - 223,553,265

Black population - 38,929,319


After math


1 murder per 51,191 white folk

1 murder per 7,525 black folk


In other words black people have a murder rate almost 7 times whites. Where do these people find the moral authority to lecture us about the value of life? How are you going to shame white people if you can't get your own house in order? Sure a racist white cop might kill a black guy for no apparent good reason (like that Baton Rouge crap), but the vast majority are shot by people that look just like I would imagine Obama's son would have.


I will admit my "privilege" of having 2 parents who made raising their children a priority and who taught them the value of life. Has nothing to do with being white.

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Black Lives Matter isn't about math, it's about institutional racism and racial profiling employed by most big city police forces that result in situations like Baton Rouge.

 

It's not about placing more or less importance on one life or another, it's about raising awareness about criminal police activity.

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Black Lives Matter isn't about math

 

That's a fortunate viewpoint, because Black Lives Matter has managed to get more black lives killed.

 

In the end, Black Lives Matter is based on the racism of "We know what those people are like." Many lives have been ruined over what are essentially hoaxes. The proto-BLM Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown both turned out to be justifiable homicides. We are watching a series of acquittals in the Freddie Gray incident because trumped up charges were brought due to the mob demanding blood and the State's Attorney's happily feeding them. These outcomes could only discovered after the feeding frenzy stopped for a moment and the actual facts of the case and not just how people feel based on their own prejudices could be looked at.

 

While I will listen to real complaints about police abuse and I certainly know that any system whereby one person has power over another can and usually will create abuses, I want no part of Black Lives Matter. It is its own cancer on race relations and protecting the black community.

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BLM was a lot easier to sympathize with when it was about protesting police brutality and so on. They've since degenerated into SJW grandstanders; self righteous fanatics who think that playing the oppressed minority card gives them the right to shut down speakers and events they don't personally agree with. There are many real issues facing black inner city communities, but BLM can rot in hell as far as I'm concerned.

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Many lives have been ruined over what are essentially hoaxes. The proto-BLM Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown both turned out to be justifiable homicides.

Aaaaaaaand I'm out

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OJ was found not guilty too. So was Michael Jackson. Just because our justice system fails at times, like clearly fails, may make things legally justifiable-- but morally, not so much. Which was the original point of BLM.

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I said the evidence, not the outcome. Based on the evidence, the only failing of the legal system in either case was the fact that the Trayvon Martin incident went to trial at all based on how implausible the prosecution's (and the popular media's) version of events was.

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After waking up to the Minnesota story this morning I'm starting to be thankful I'm a crazy white woman and not a black man because apparently "right to carry" is only safe for white men with broken tail lights.

 

The answer is not as plain as you think it can be but America does need to examine root issues that lead to black men dying during routine stops and how their cops deal with it because trust in police is not a thing that is happening even with these stories. I've been robbed twice when I managed Taco Bell, had my car broken into twice and my home burglarized and nothing came out of those police reports (the robber at Taco Bell was caught but because he made a mistake at a Subway he tried to rob and was easily identifiable).

 

While I believe this thread is 100% trolling the math is skewed because of a multiple of reasons - one of which is a black man is more likely to be arrested at a traffic stop because of how he reacts than a white dude.

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I agree with the cop issue. All deaths by the hand of a cop should be investigate...ALL not just ones of a particular color. And I think a process should be looked at where it should be an external/outside organization with no ties to the precincts that does the investigations.

 

Now where BLM loses me is when everything moves beyond that. As an example, the local BLM group is demanding college campuses build a student organization for people of color only for their safe zone. So we are now reverting back to a form of segregation? Really?

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Reminds me of the N-word thing. Black people can kill each other all day long and nobody bats an eye, it's just normal social behavior. As soon as a white cop does the same it becomes proof that every problem every black person ever had can be laid right at whitey's feet.

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One is an individual, the other is the state. There should be much more oversight and outrage when the state kills someone without a trial.

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Black Lives Matter isn't about math

 

That's a fortunate viewpoint, because Black Lives Matter has managed to get more black lives killed.

 

In the end, Black Lives Matter is based on the racism of "We know what those people are like." Many lives have been ruined over what are essentially hoaxes. The proto-BLM Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown both turned out to be justifiable homicides. We are watching a series of acquittals in the Freddie Gray incident because trumped up charges were brought due to the mob demanding blood and the State's Attorney's happily feeding them. These outcomes could only discovered after the feeding frenzy stopped for a moment and the actual facts of the case and not just how people feel based on their own prejudices could be looked at.

 

While I will listen to real complaints about police abuse and I certainly know that any system whereby one person has power over another can and usually will create abuses, I want no part of Black Lives Matter. It is its own cancer on race relations and protecting the black community.

 

Are you trolling, playing Devil's Advocate or just ignorant? Seriously-and I don't mean ignorant as in stoopid, just as in...no real-life experience with it? I don't want to put too much into this if any of those are the case. I know you're sincere-I just need to know from where this comes because emotion is making my head hurt.

 

You can't look at ONLY stats here and if you really want to do that, I think it's much more clear when you look at stats of black persons killed by police vs. Caucasians killed by police, because THAT's the crux of the matter-not all gun deaths.

 

And seriously, WHAT evidence did you find compelling in the Trayvon Martin case??

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Are you trolling, playing Devil's Advocate or just ignorant?

 

About what exactly? My insistence that these cases not be tried in the press and the streets based on prejudices?

 

Justice brought about by a mob is rarely a positive thing and often leaves lives in tatters. Not too long ago, the passion of the masses led to plenty of black people on trial (if they were fortunate enough to get that far) with a prime piece of evidence being how everyone knows that black people are like such and such. Is that really what we call progress?

 

Black Lives Matters represents the historic ugliness that is Bob Ewell, not of Atticus Finch.

 

 

 

And seriously, WHAT evidence did you find compelling in the Trayvon Martin case??

 

There were two narratives about the Trayvon Martin shooting. The first was the popular media and prosecution's narrative where George Zimmerman got angry and basically tracked Martin down to murder. The second, Zimmerman's story, was he lost track of Martin, but when he was going back to his truck Martin confronted him, attacked him, knocked him to the ground and hit his head against the sidewalk, and that led to the shooting.

 

The evidence strongly points to Zimmerman's account being more accurate. Thanks to the 911 calls and physical evidence, the events are very easy to reconstruct.

 

1. Zimmerman had injuries consistent with having his head hit against cement.

2. An analysis of the shooting is consistent with it having happened with Martin on top of Zimmerman.

3. We know from Zimmerman's 911 call that he had already walked past the point where the altercation took place. Which is consistent with his statement that he was on his way back to his truck when the confrontation happened, not chasing down Martin.

4. Martin was close enough to his destination that he could have almost been there by the time Zimmerman ended his call with the police if he had merely continued walking. The only way he could be close enough for the confrontation to take place was if he had chosen to remain in the area.

5. Only two minutes go by between the end of Zimmerman's call to the police and when subsequent calls to 911 began coming in from neighbors. Again, this makes the idea that Zimmerman tracked down Martin extremely unlikely. It also means that the altercation escalated to the violence that caused Zimmerman's injuries almost immediately.

6. We have Zimmerman's state of mind from the call to the police. Prosecutors attempted to use a bit of a transcript where he says "****ing punks" as proof that he was becoming agitated to the point of murder (the prosecutor kept repeating the phrase several times getting angrier each time), but the call reveals a fairly calm exchange where Zimmerman was more distracted by giving directions than anything else.

 

It's been a couple years, but I could go back and find many more things about the prosecution's case that simply did not add up. That case should never have gone before a jury. While it's possible Zimmerman was the aggressor and started attacking Martin as soon as he appeared, the evidence was much stronger for Martin assaulting Zimmerman than the opposite having occurred.

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You can't look at ONLY stats here and if you really want to do that, I think it's much more clear when you look at stats of black persons killed by police vs. Caucasians killed by police, because THAT's the crux of the matter-not all gun deaths.

That seems perfectly reasonable.

People shot dead by officers in 2015 - https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings/

White - 494

Black - 258

At first glance that seems to both support and contradict BLM claims. Black people are definitely more likely to be killed by a police officer taking into account population, but apparently cops shoot white people too. These #s don't actually mean much raw though, you are way more likely to be shot while committing a violent crime after all and blacks commit way more of those.

Putting the shooting data together with the murder statistics gives you this.

1 white person killed by police per 8.84 murders they committed

1 black person killed by police per 20.05 murders they committed

Almost seems to indicate cops are using some restraint with the use of deadly force when it comes to blacks. Probably something to do with the media ****storm every time a cop shoots a black guy under even remotely questionable circumstances.

*I know I am mixing 2014 crime stats with 2015 police shooting data. The detailed FBI stats are not yet available for 2015 and I couldn't find officer involved shooting data from 2014.

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There is such thing as dealing with race issues that are uncomfortable in a society where racism is just about the greatest moral failing. Where the conventional wisdom is unwise and invites challenge from those with tact and courage to navigate such waters. And then there are those that are on a "side". Who have an agenda of divisiveness.

 

Make no mistake Marc, you are not a part of the former.

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There is such thing as dealing with race issues that are uncomfortable in a society where racism is just about the greatest moral failing. Where the conventional wisdom is unwise and invites challenge from those with tact and courage to navigate such waters. And then there are those that are on a "side". Who have an agenda of divisiveness.

 

Make no mistake, you are not a part of the former.

Well aren't you just clever as fuck.

 

I bet you love those "safe spaces" where people don't have to be exposed to ideas or information that make them uncomfortable. They can just pretend that the world really is how they believe it is.

Hey if you want to play the political stereotype game, I'm down. You're not the 1% brand of conservative so you must be part of the hillbilly redneck set that hates anything other than what he was raised around because God/Jesus/Ronald Reagan or whatever.

 

Why? I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. Are facts that disturbing to you?

No-- what disturbs me is your complete and total lack of human compassion. Go watch the video from the Minnesota shooting yesterday and come back and say black people should stop whining cause the numbers are against them. BLM people annoy you? Boo ****ing hoo, they're probably pretty annoyed by being murdered by cops.

 

And let's talk about your numbers-- they are given with zero sense of context. They could include all manner of data that tips the scales-- bank robbers? Meth dealers? All sorts of predominantly white criminal roles could get killed in encounters with the police.

 

But how about statistics that measure something very specific? Say, wrongful shootings. Not justified shootings in the line of duty-- but people shot by cops that acted wrongly. I'm pretty sure that white people would be in the minority there.

 

It's funny how often I call myself centrist, because while I remain socially liberal, the older I get and the more money I make the more fiscally conservative I become.

 

But then I see posts like you guys make-- literally making light of human suffering and hiding behind rhetoric to disguise the fact that you could give a crap about anyone other than yourself, or life that only exists in your own bubble. There's nothing conservative about me.

 

The problem here is no mystery-- this isn't like debating mass shootings and arguing if they are a gun issue or not.

 

Here is true history for you: In the early 20th century police were by and large police seen as peace keepers. They were trained to deflate tension. Obviously, everyone was racist back then-- and things were never easy for minorities, but there was a significant change.

 

L.A. police chief William Parker, in the 50s, changed tactics. As racial tension mounted in Los Angeles he overhauled how police were trained. Instead of peace keepers, they began to function like a military unit. Racial profiling became the norm. This is documented-- read John Buntin's LA Noir for a very detailed breakdown.

 

After L.A. quelled a couple race riots, Parker's methodology spread to every major city. This system of training police became the norm across the country. A lot of it has been dismantled and counteracted since-- but that training is deeply entrenched. The old vets live by it-- the training is unofficially passed on through rookies simply learning procedure from their superiors.

 

I'm not saying every cop is racist, I have three friends and a cousin who are cops and they are all the most moral people I know. But when we talk about racism being systemic, here is a very real and proven case of it. Even when it is not actively taught, it manages to seep into the methodology of modern policing. I don't know the number of cops involved in these shootings who are actively racist-- some may not even realize they are. THAT is what systemic racism is-- it's programmed on such a deep level you don't even know it.

 

This is where I love my George Lucas example. Proud liberal, married a black woman-- and yet, was raised rich and white and had no idea how culturally insensitive he was with some of his characterizations.

 

So, yeah, I'm disgusted by the fact that you find black people exercising their constitutional rights to protest is bothersome to you somehow in this remote Idaho wilderness you tell us we know nothing about.

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