At some point politicians really should take note that massive amounts of immigration is bad if, for no other reason, how destabilizing it is. I mean, Kyrian's pointing to his not finding any study that mass immigration is bad, but check out the results. Without a pushback on immigration, his side easily wins the referendum. So, there you go. To Kyrian, immigration has caused what he sees as a mistake big enough that he doesn't want to live on this planet anymore.
Hope it was worth it.
In the United States, without massive illegal immigration, Trump has no opening. There's less racial strife. Latinos would find it much easier to integrate into the mainstream in the way that the Irish and Italians have.
The idea that there is only economic gain from illegal immigration is demonstrably untrue. Now, you can blame the pushback on xenophobia or whatever (it's a simplistic point-of-view), but there's absolutely no doubt that it is there, and it's stretching the social fabric of multiple western countries for really no good reason. Nationalist movements are springing up all over Europe and the United States powered by opposition to mass immigration. This is bad.
Wow, OK, not even sure how to address this. First off, it's demonstrable that immigration has no negative effect on the economy; the only way it's seen as a bad thing is in things where the clash of cultures turns ugly and we see racially motivated assaults, rapes, and a low level of integration. It's these incidences, which are admittedly rare, that shape public perception, and it's that public perception that's driven the result. Future generations will study ours as an example of the destructive power of corporate controlled mass media, and Brexit and Trump will be the biggest events they can turn to.
Second of all, illegal immigration is another issue. There's no real way of measuring illegal immigration, and it is a big issue, one that I personally think is handled badly by my own country. Even if we ignore the economic side of things, looking at the impact on communities, there's an argument to be made that things have become something of a vicious circle. Immigrants end up being seen as insular, rude, "coming over here, taking our jobs" etc, but imagine you're the immigrant - the people living in the country you've decided to move to (legally or otherwise), upon finding out that you're an immigrant, become generally quite hostile towards you, so you're naturally going to gravitate towards people of your own culture, or even other immigrants, in order to find some acceptance/piece of mind. To those natives on the fence, this "community within a community" is seen an exclusionary and can push you away from acceptance, and to those already harbouring a hatred of immigrants, it's further proof that they don't want to integrate and should therefore go home, when in fact, they're the cause of the insularity in the first place. If we were more welcoming, less hateful towards them, there wouldn't be a need for immigrants to group together in certain areas and form their own groups to reinforce and defend their interests.
Wow, Poe, excellent posts. I'll further add that you can point to immigration contributing to the downfall of various cultures, be it the Romans, Greeks, etc. Once the founding culture becomes overrun by immigrants the culture changes and ultimately dies, and only poverty and despair prevails. Those that do not know history are doomed to repeat it.
Is it a coincidence that people have migrated west? Farming began in the Near East and over time has inched its way to America. First it was the Near East, then Anatolia, then the Greeks, then the Romans, then the French, then England, then the US. Why the push west? Immigration. People coming into a culure, exploiting its resources, and then forcing the founding culture to move.
We are at a point now where there is nowhere left to move, and there are tons of people who want to come here for a hope of a better life. The problem is that many of them are bitter zealots, and to ignore the threat is just naive. It is not our duty to take in all comers at the expense of our own livelihood.
Now some will claim that's a racist attitude. Xenephobia is a term that's tossed around a lot. Much like Homophobia, it's a term used to guilt people into compliance. Both terms were invented to keep people quiet so that the government could better control the people.
What we're seeing now in the UK, and what we will see here in the US, is that people are tired of liberal PC bull****.
It's also called progress. Immigration is a part of every culture, whether you like it or not. Society marches on, it's up to you to keep up or sit stubbornly in your hole, yelling at everyone who tries to drag you out of it.
Also, to point to immigration as the main factor in the downfall of every major civilisation is to profess a wild ignorance of the unique socio-political and economic hallmarks of each society. Every civilisation falls, that much is true, but there's no one reason for all of them.
Though I will agree with something you appear to be alluding to: humanity is essentially a parasite. We move across land, consume all the resources and move on. That's something that really ought to change, but not without a lot of upheaval, pain and misery, and is also a completely different issue.
One question I have for you, Odine is if Scotland and Ireland do gain independence from the UK, is there talk of them also leaving the Commonwealth of Nations, as well, or would they stay in? The reason I ask is if they do leave the Commonwealth, they might just have to join the EU.
There's been no Commonwealth talk yet that I've seen, the media is mainly concentrating on the shambles the Leave campaign has left behind (ie. literally no plan now they've been successful, how their campaign was built on lies the Leave campaigners are rapidly backpedalling away from, etc) and Nicola Sturgeon's attempts to force the UK to either stay in the EU or let Scotland leave.
Last I checked, there isn't exactly an overwhelming rush of Afghan immigrants beating down our door either.
That's because they're all coming over here... It's a lot easier to get to Europe than it is to get to the US. Have you ever watched any of the programs about border control agencies prior to the Arab Spring? The vast majority of illegals trying to get into the UK prior to that were from Iraq and Afghanistan. Not that our countries had anything at all to do with that. Nope, completely innocent. But, again, those are illegal immigrants, and it's immigration in general that is the main issue here - everyone agrees that illegal immigration is a problem (whichever side of the issue you're on), it's the legal ones that are causing all the debates and schisms.
EDIT: I feel it's also worth pointing out that immigration wasn't the only issue people were voting for. Yes, there was the big lie about £350 million going from the EU to the NHS, but a lot of people here feel that Brussels interferes too much. I had a conversation with my mum about it, and she voted Leave because she's sick of European courts being able to over-rule British courts. A lot of people mention the whole "unelected officials" spiel (completely ignorant of the European Parliament, it seems), but it's true that, even in my lifetime, I've seen European courts over-rule decisions made by our courts that I don't agree with, like the infamous Romanian rapist allowed back into the UK because it violates his human rights to bar him re-entry. It's something that I don't particularly like; how can these judges make decisions on our legal system when not only do they not have a complete understanding of how ours works, but also when they're not from here and therefore have no true understanding of our way of life, our mentality and our sense of justice (which appears to be at odds with Europe a lot of the time)? I heard someone say the other day that Britain likes the EU, we just don't like Brussels, and it really rang true. Will the Brexit allow us to still be a part of the things in the EU that we like whilst being able to discard the things we don't? Or will we end up more like Norway, essentially forced to accept terms in order to be a part of things but with no say or power over what those terms are?