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Ben Solo's Fall to the Dark Side


Darth Wicket
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Guest El Chalupacabra

After watching TFA and seeing Han Solo die, I came home and literally watched my ANH, TESB, and ROTJ disappear from my book case and into thin air. It was amazing. And sad. Because, now I can never re-watch those movies ever again. They are already fading from memory. Damn you Harrison Ford! Why did you do it?! Why did you take the money?! Why did you make my DVDs disappear?!

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After watching TFA and seeing Han Solo die, I came home and literally watched my ANH, TESB, and ROTJ disappear from my book case and into thin air. It was amazing. And sad. Because, now I can never re-watch those movies ever again. They are already fading from memory. Damn you Harrison Ford! Why did you do it?! Why did you take the money?! Why did you make my DVDs disappear?!

My god. This is what happens to me every time an adaptation isn't EXACTLY like the book/comic. They've RUINED IT. THEY BLEW IT UP. THE MANIACS!

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Just because Harrison doesn't oh-so-cherish Star Wars doesn't mean he mailed his performance. Acting is his job, and there are parts of that job (like 99% of humans) he doesn't love; but he does it anyways...as best he can because he's getting paid...ALOT. This distinction between job and what fans feel needs to be understood before injecting opinions.

 

My opinion on ford's performance is that it was as good as it could have been. It was good. A 60 year old version of Han Solo. If I had to nit-pick, there is one line that I didn't particularly love. It was a stupid throw away line and (ironic to this conversation) he tried too hard and it sounded dumb. And since I don't actually want to nit-pick I'm not going to say which line it is.

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I love Han Solo's death scene. It's what a movie death (or any death in entertainment, really) should be. Personal for everyone involved, ups the stakes, ends a long arc for one character and spurs the other into action.

 

Agreed. Also, a lot of effort went into the scene as well. The lighting in particular during that scene was very well done. The red hue on Han, foreshadowing something bad is going to happen. Kylo's face half red hue, half not indicating struggle. The silence as the sun goes out completely in the background, leaving them both in darkness before it happens. Kylo figuratively and literally "goes dark" at that moment...and it's the same moment the galaxy goes dark because star killer base is ready to fire. Han touches his cheek (to me) says "Ben, you can still come back from this" without saying a word. Tons of stuff going on in a few moments of silence. So well done.
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Also, a lot of effort went into the scene as well. The lighting in particular during that scene was very well done. The red hue on Han, foreshadowing something bad is going to happen. Kylo's face half red hue, half not indicating struggle. The silence as the sun goes out completely in the background, leaving them both in darkness before it happens. Kylo figuratively and literally "goes dark" at that moment...and it's the same moment the galaxy goes dark because star killer base is ready to fire. Han touches his cheek (to me) says "Ben, you can still come back from this" without saying a word. Tons of stuff going on in a few moments of silence. So well done.

The one thing I will say is the way you described it, it does parallel nicely with Anakin's turn. The scene where he sits in the Jedi tower as the sun sets on Coruscant, darkness enveloping the city...the dark enveloping the galaxy. After Anakin's turn, all the scenes with him or Palpatine take place at night, all the scenes with Obi Wan and Yoda take place during the day. Light and dark.
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Han's death was purely executed (pardon the pun). It was so expected and so obvious it was coming. Watching him walk onto that that plank with no railings.

 

Han was smart, he shot first, yes, he knew Greedo was gonna pull that trigger. He's in a similar situation with Emo Ren, but this time he's not smart enough to see it coming...eh? Especially when you consider Ren has just blown up planets killing billions of innocent people, is under the influence of a Dark Side Sith like master and has previously murdered Luke's apprentices.

 

Nah, Han Solo would have been to smart to see that one coming, even the audience saw it coming. Terrible send off for a great character. RIP Han.

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Trumpet Player has joined Poe as somebody's whose posts incite a string of words from me, animated heated words... but then I hold them back because I realize they are here for ironic justice against me in the name of every prequel fan that ever posted here.

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It was done poorly just because you saw it coming? Judging by how it was done, i don't think it was supposed to be some huge surprise. It was double-dipped in foreshadow sauce. It wasn't about surprise. Get TESB out of your brain and watch it again. It was about propelling Kylo's character arc, and it was done poetically in sync with the story.

 

Come to think of it, how dumb would it have been if they even tried to make it about surprise. Honestly, how would that go down exactly? Are we going to see Han running to escape the exploding base and have Kylo jump out of the shadows and stab him while queuing up the "dun dun dah" music? It would be stupid for them to even try. They knew that and made the focus on Kylo's fall/redemption arc. This movie is NOT about Han anyways. They put the focus right where it should be.

 

I wouldn't characterize Han as smart either. He was clever, but not smart.

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Whether you think Han's death scene was executed well or delivered poorly, I say it stands to reason why Abrams himself didn't know what he was trying to accomplish with it judging by his own commentary.

I'm afraid I dont understand what you are trying to say. Is this your point? Pleas clarify if I'm wrong:

 

Abrams said "instead of growing stronger he grew weaker". Kylo certainly seemed weaker at the end of the film than he was at the beginning. The beginning he was a badass, inneffectual at the end. He should have been stronger in the darkside after killing his father.

 

If thats your point, I'm not going to argue it. From a literary standpoint, I think that would have been better. After sparring with Rey, the falcon shows up blasters firing to back Ren off, allowing Rey to flee or something after being obviously outclassed,

 

Perhaps Abrams said these things as kind of a backtrack to answer all the negative feedback about him being "nerfed up for the Rey fight".

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The funny thing is that the very thing he is complaining about in the scene is what makes it great. He says that Han should have known what would happen. The fact is he does! He's not stupid, he knows that the overwhelming likliehood is that this will not end well. However he loves his son enough to put his own life on the line for the chance, even if it's a tiny chance, that he can convince him to come back. That's exactly what makes the scene so great.

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Seriously. Kylo is Han's SON. Not some random bounty hunter in a cantina. He's his son. He will do anything to save him. Even risk his own life. Even die.



"Will you help me?"



"Yes, anything."




Han is willing to do anything to save him ? Ok, so please explain to me why he ran off and left Kylo Ren to turn the Galaxy into turmoil 20 years prior to the events in TFA and not do anything about it until now ?

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Do we know Han's been gone 20 years? I know it was implied to be a long time, but 20 years is closer to the time between ROTJ and TFA than the time he was gone, I think.

 

And why not until now? Well, he just surprisingly saw his kid and surprisingly reunited with he kids mother. That's quite a shock to the system I'd imagine it could change a lot of things.

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I think I read that it's confirmed in the novel to be twenty years or so since Han last saw his son.

 

So because he saw Leia and his son it changed things ? That's the kind of excuse deadbeat dads make for themselves.... and that's essentially what TFA has made Han Solo into... a deabeat dad ?

 

Considering his own son murdered his wife's brothers students and has ran off and joined the enemy, you would think he or any decent person would have made more of an attempt by now and feel a sense of responsibility or guilt....this isn't really how I imagined an older Han Solo to be.

 

We all know why it was written this way, not because it was a choice by the writers, but because Ford demanded it and the writers had to compensate... and it's ruined the whole script. We all know that if not for Ford wanting to be killed off in the first film he would have been around for the next two, hence the writing could have been more fleshed out.

 

Han Solo, Smuggler, Mercenary, turned legendary hero / General of the Rebellion, fundamental in bringing down the fall of the Empire, marries a Princess.... then goes back to being a bum and becomes a deadbeat Dad. This is like bad soap opera, not the classic Space Opera that is Star Wars.

 

I'm not a fan of the EU but even what was written in those books was more well thought out than this. It all feels so rushed and it borrows so much from ANH. I should say steals from ANH.

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It couldn;t have been anywhere near 20 years. It's 30 years since ROTJ, even if Leia got pregnant on Endor and gave birth 9 months later that makes Ren 29 at the most in TFA. So if it's been 20 years we are saying that he turned to the darkside at 9?? Seems unlikely.

 

Plus I think that Reys vision of the Knights of Ren is when they attacked Lukes "school". Kylo don't look 9 there. LOL.

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