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that gorilla that got shot


Pong Messiah
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Guest El Chalupacabra

I think the blame lies where no one has the guts to lay it.

 

It's the kid's fault.

 

This kid is an idiot.

 

My kid was 3 the first time he went to a zoo, and he loved the monkeys. I asked if he wanted to go play with them and he said "nope. they're too big."

I wouldn't go that far.

 

Kids develop at different ages, differently. Just because your kid was able to reason that out, doesn't mean every 3-4 year old can. Nor should they be expected to.

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As a complete aside, I didn't know that about you, Chalup! I used to work in the education department of a local art museum.

 

One of the major evening news broadcasts showed an artist's rendering of the gorilla enclosure. If I remember correctly, the only real barrier between the observation area and the moat was a 3ft fence with horizontal bars. I'm surprised this hasn't happened more often if that's the case. Any able bodied kid could climb that.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

As a complete aside, I didn't know that about you, Chalup! I used to work in the education department of a local art museum.

 

Cool! I just completed it this past December, actually. I started back SPR 2014, and took me all this time to finish. I work in the tech field, and when I retire, I want to get into exhibit design, and integrate technology into exhibits. I know that is heresy to some curators, though.

 

 

One of the major evening news broadcasts showed an artist's rendering of the gorilla enclosure. If I remember correctly, the only real barrier between the observation area and the moat was a 3ft fence with horizontal bars. I'm surprised this hasn't happened more often if that's the case. Any able bodied kid could climb that.

 

I suppose that is some of the problems with photos. Scale can be hard to determine. I also viewed this video. While the barrier fence is low, there is all kinds of shrubbery behind it that also acts as a barrier, plus the big pit underneath. To me, that looked sufficient to say the zoo made a reasonable attempt. It can't say "stay out" any more plainly. And it seemed to work for years. But like I said, just my opinion, and like I said, I suppose I am a little biased. Kinda moot, now I suppose. I've seen articles stating the Zoo is installing higher barriers.

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My whole point is that it is impossible to say whether or not the zoo was negligent. If they were negligent, they're liable. If they weren't negligent, they aren't. I haven't done any investigation because I don't work for the company that insures the zoo. But my livelihood is investigating negligence and liability.

 

So for someone to make an absolute statement regarding liability is the equivalent of Krawlie seeing someone say that someone is worse than Pong. It makes my eyes bleed.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

My whole point is that it is impossible to say whether or not the zoo was negligent. If they were negligent, they're liable. If they weren't negligent, they aren't. I haven't done any investigation because I don't work for the company that insures the zoo. But my livelihood is investigating negligence and liability.

 

So for someone to make an absolute statement regarding liability is the equivalent of Krawlie seeing someone say that someone is worse than Pong. It makes my eyes bleed.

My whole point is that I don't think they were negligent. I get what you are saying and respect the fact you do assess claims, but when you say negligence, to me, that usually implies an ordinary person or organization has failed to take reasonable care under ordinary circumstances to prevent harm. As I see it, the museum took REASONABLE steps. They had barriers in place. I don't see anything unreasonable in the video. The zoo took steps to save the child's life, at the cost of their own gorilla. They are in fact installing higher barriers now. In the 141 years the zoo has operated, how many times has a kid fallen in the gorilla exhibit? Once. And they saved that kid, who is relatively unharmed. That is not an ordinary circumstance. It's called a freak accident, and is not something that occurs under ordinary circumstances.

 

Also, it is impossible to plan for every possible contingency. Zoos and museums for that matter don't have unlimited resources, which means they have to prioritize. Sometimes they have to make do with what they have. Sometimes they have to make do without. They are often the first to have funding cut in economic downturns, and last to have it restored in good economies. It would be nice to have a perfect system in place, but the more barriers, the more money it takes.

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Not the curators at the museum I worked for! There's iPads a-plenty in most exhibitions and tours. Some exhibitions have downloadable apps, too.

 

On the one hand, that does look forbidding enough that I can see why the normal person - including kids - would get the "keep away" message loud and clear. On the other hand, a crafty, determined little kid could easily slip through the fence and crawl through that shrubbery. I'm just flabbergasted that the kid jumped into that moat (unless he fell). I'm also flabbergasted that the gorilla jumped in there with him, it looks like the gorilla would have been trapped, too.

 

I can also definitely see how the people around wouldn't notice the kid until it was too late, if he were obscured by the bushes.

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My whole point is that it is impossible to say whether or not the zoo was negligent. If they were negligent, they're liable. If they weren't negligent, they aren't. I haven't done any investigation because I don't work for the company that insures the zoo. But my livelihood is investigating negligence and liability.

 

So for someone to make an absolute statement regarding liability is the equivalent of Krawlie seeing someone say that someone is worse than Pong. It makes my eyes bleed.

 

I can't remember the name of the organization but there is one that sets standards for zoos and the gorilla exhibit met the compliance standards for the organization. So how can you say that they were negligent if they met standards for the gorilla exhibit?

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