Ghostbusters

[Mara Jade Skywalker]

That sounds very Ender's Game.

[Driver]

Ender's Game came out a year after Last Starfighter. I'm sure Card was already working on the book, and he's too much of a tool to ever admit it, but I'm pretty sure they share some DNA. I've seen them as interconnected since I first read Ender back in 88 or so.

[Poe Dameron]

Oh definitely-- Teens on Earth think they are playing a networked MMO game flying Starfighters not realizing that they are actually remote piloting drones in a real war somewhere in space. After the network connection is destroyed by Xur, Centauri has to go find the teens on Earth to come and do it live in space.

 

Sounds cool. Although I can't help but notice the "last starfighter" is now plural. Was this idea not a reboot, but a sequel?

 

Ender's Game came out a year after Last Starfighter. I'm sure Card was already working on the book, and he's too much of a tool to ever admit it, but I'm pretty sure they share some DNA. I've seen them as interconnected since I first read Ender back in 88 or so.

 

Ender's Game started out as a short story in '77. Pretty much all the basic elements were in place, including that the simulation is real. Card's safe as far as borrowing from The Last Starfighter.

[Driver]

Good point-- didn't realize it went that far back. Inspiration must flow the other way then.

[Axis]

 

For me, it's not like feeling "not allowed" so much as disinterested. It's the Robocop effect.

 

Before you think I'm just being cute, hear me out.

 

The original Robocop was not a perfect movie, but it was the perfect intersection of corporatist decline and high-tech gee-whizzery held together with distressingly goopy ultra-violent dark satire. In its way, the movie was brilliant, and it was especially sweet for those of us in the audience who felt we "got it," who felt Verhoeven's futurism was laden with infinite gumdrops and breadcrumbs meant just for us.

 

 

 

 

It's interesting that you bring up Robocop and the remake. Robocop is one of my all-time favorite films, and I actually do think it's a near-perfect example of sci-fi, action, horror, political satire, and elemental myth. I refused to watch the remake out of principle because it seemed to be a cold, nakedly obvious cash-grab that's very much in the capitalistic spirit of what the original film is trying to undermine. There's a big difference here, though, between this situation and the Robocop situation, which is that there is no element of socially progressive engineering involved in the Robocop remake that makes it a practical necessity for me to see just so that I'll be aware of what it'll contribute to the culture by virtue of it's existence. I want to be there on the ground floor of that, but I don't want to support the kind of cynical greed that creates artless bastardizations of movies I love, like Robocop and to a lesser-extent, Ghostbusters.

[Exodus]

Building sized ghost...check. Panic at the restaurant...check. The team in the mayors office...check. Building serving as a ghost beacon...check. Did they seriously just take some of the best **** from the other two movies and just rehash the crap out of it? I can't decide if the first unfunny trailer is worse, or the one that rips the other two movies off is worse.

 

See how I used gripes that did not pertain to the female cast here?

[Pong Messiah]

There's a big difference here, though, between this situation and the Robocop situation, which is that there is no element of socially progressive engineering involved in the Robocop remake

Yeah, that's absolutely an important difference!

 

I get where you are coming from, and it's definitely interesting to me, too. But is it matinee-price interesting? I dunno... pretty much everybody I know in real life or interact with through social media is obsessed with how race/gender/sexuality/power differentials/culture/economics/etc. are portrayed in film and literature, and has been jabbering about this movie and its importance since it was announced. I mean, for an example of a "typical film discussion," take the last movie I saw on the big screen: a close friend loathes Captain America and refuses to give the three (quite good!) films a chance just because the name "Captain" (militaristic! might-makes-right!) "America" (capitalist! colonialist!) sends her deep into fits of jingo fever. She's never gonna see Civil War, but she's definitely rooting for Iron Man! If we're getting that hung up over names, without even taking plot, production, entertainment value, etc. into account, just imagine how discussed to death the significance of an all-female Ghostbusters and the legion of troggy dudebros who just won't give it a fair chance is to me by now?

So unless I hear through word of mouth that it has really surpassed expectations as a film (and I don't expect it to; the only time I've ever been dead wrong about a movie based on its stupid trailers was Dumb and Dumber, and it turns out that was by design) or it somehow starts a heated conversation I haven't already heard numerous times, I think I'll be settling for the CliffsNotes deconstruction and seeing this on my television after the fact.

 

[Driver]

Building sized ghost...check. Panic at the restaurant...check. The team in the mayors office...check. Building serving as a ghost beacon...check. Did they seriously just take some of the best **** from the other two movies and just rehash the crap out of it? I can't decide if the first unfunny trailer is worse, or the one that rips the other two movies off is worse.

 

See how I used gripes that did not pertain to the female cast here?

OMGSEXIST

[Guest]

Pretty sure that "Last Starfighter" sequel is coming. Only it will be called Armada instead and just reference the original movie as a movie a bazillion times.

[Pong Messiah]

I wouldn't mind a full on remake. The original had a neat, but underdeveloped story line, and the special effects have aged terribly (for obvious reasons). There's a lot of great stuff to work with -- hammer in some nuance and better writing and make it look better and it could be brilliant.

 

Really liked the whole Obnoxiously Spoiled Big Bad Even The Medium Bads Can't Stand angle, too. Don't you lose that, writer people!

[Driver]

If they remake it they should the effects only with miniatures.

[Pong Messiah]

NO

[Driver]

BUT IRONY

[captainbleh]

"Our special effects have aged terribly (for obvious reasons)! What do we do?"

 

"We die cast"

[CoLA]

"Our special effects have aged terribly (for obvious reasons)! What do we do?"

 

*puts on monocole*

 

"We die cast"

Fixed it for you!

[Cerina]

Why is it that if you hate the trailers for this movie it's a reaction to an all-female cast? The movie looks like it sucks. Period. I wouldn't care what race, gender, sexual preference, blood type, hair color, weight, shoe size, car they drive, computer they use, football team they root for, political party the stars had.

There's a difference between someone not liking the trailers and the rage-hate that this movie has received. I've seen people online treat this movie the way Driver treats the PT, and it hasn't even come out yet! All we know is that the trailer doesn't make it appear all that funny. There's nothing to hate yet, but people do. If it doesn't appeal to you, that's one thing. If you've already decided to hate it, there's more to it than unfunny jokes.

[Pong Messiah]

All we know is that the trailer doesn't make it appear all that funny. There's nothing to hate yet

I 100% agree with your general point, but think you are being too easy on the trailers, especially the second one. Since Axis made this thread, I have been trying to think of an example of a movie I should be excited for, where the trailer's primary function was as wet blanket, and I really can't come up with one. The aforementioned Robocop (trailer #1) comes closest, but at least that touches on man/machine/free will stuff that looks like it could be interesting. Heck, despite a few questionable moments in The Phanton Menace trailer #1 (and can I be sure they aren't painted with hindsight?), even that film looks like it's gonna be super fun, not some paint-by-numbers cash grab!

 

 

 

EDIT: hahah -- I totally missed Star Trek: Beyond, only one topic down.

 

And with that, I have my example of another trailer that makes me completely disinterested in a movie I should like.

[Cerina]

I didn't find it all that funny. But I still want to see the movie. I generally don't find the cast that funny either tbh. But I really want to see what they did with the concept.

 

But I know many people who are excited to see it and do think the trailer looks funny. So it's not like it's a universal distaste.

[Poe Dameron]

 

Heck, despite a few questionable moments in The Phanton Menace trailer #1 (and can I be sure they aren't painted with hindsight?), even that film looks like it's gonna be super fun, not some paint-by-numbers cash grab!

That had to wait 15 years for The Force Awakens.

[Jacen123]

I really don't think it helped this movie that there had been rumors of a sequel to the originals with the same cast (even if their roles would have been supporting) for many years. When that falls through, many people are going to be naturally disappointing. Combining that with the vitriol against women that exists among certain groups of people (which I really don't understand) and disappointing trailers that make the movie look like it is trying to recreate the originals while missing the spirit* of it, and you have exactly this sort of mess.

 

*pun totally intended

[Guest]

I love the originals, they definitely are included in my favorites.

 

This movie looks like crap. Everything about it. I'm expecting gross out comedy that's watered down enough to get a PG-13 rating. I've been excited all along, but the more that comes out, the more I hate this movie. And I was excited about the idea of a female cast.

[The Kurgan]

Well, let's get the obvious stuff out of the way first. A major, thought not the only factor in the backlash against this film is the all female ghostbusters team. Granted, the decision to do that comes across as SJW pontificating with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer, but let's not pretend that the backlash against it is not at least as ideologically motivated. Sure, the movie looks bad otherwise: forced dialogue, forced CGI. Hell, I thought I was watching an Attack of the Clones reboot for most of it. But a lot of s**ty remakes have been polluting the silver screen these days, and they haven't gotten the kind of reaction this has. A lot of guys are uptight about an all female ghost busters team, and despite any pretenses to the contrary, they don't really give a s**t about "egalitarian" concerns because they sure the hell weren't concerned when the team was all male. I think it comes down to that primarily.

 

Not what you expected out of me, eh? Well, it took Nixon to go to China. So there.

 

That all said, what I'm afraid will happen here is that it will be a genuinely bad movie - the whole gender-flipped "man bites dog" thing it has going on looks like just about its only redeeming feature. And that will come across as a mere gimmick if the rest of the movie isn't good. And these trailers offer little cause for optimism. But there will be a real chill effect inside a geek-culture blogosphere heavily invested with "social justice" theology against giving the film a bad review for fear of coming across as "misogynistic." The film will come across as SJW agitprop and the support given it, at least at the editorial level in most media outlets will come across as forced and contrived political correctness. Legitimate criticism of the film will be lumped together with misogynist backlash (of which there will, admittedly, be no shortage), and should the movie be a box office failure, this will be loudly and publicly blamed entirely on geek culture misogyny rather than the film's legitimate flaws. A deeper wedge will be driven between the ideological geek culture media establishment and the majority of its fans and readers. The real loser will be the otherwise good idea of increased diversity in media representation, which will come out of all of this looking contrived and heavy handed.

[Justus]

What I love most is that a movie that is clearly trying to be progressive by having an all female team of Ghostbusters has the 3 white women all being like doctors and the black woman a token collector on the subway.

Hey--in liberal land, just having the black woman there is considered progress....just as long as you make the while liberals happy by having the black woman fall into the stereotype of being utterly sexless, and act like a cross between Hattie McDaniel in full "mammy" mode and something from a bad, post-Balxploitation 70s sitcom.

 

Moving forward, America.

[Stevil]

I forsee the girl power movement claiming this to be an awesome movie even if it's not. The principle is more important than the subject matter.

 

I hated the idea of this movie since the director admitted he cast an all women team to show his feminist solidarity.

 

I watched the trailer and I was upset they're wiping the previous canon and started anew. I didn't find any of it funny. But I was intrigued by the effects and snippets of the story. It actually had more appeal to me as a fan than I was expecting. I will withhold judgement before writing it off completely, I still think it will be horrible.

 

I just wish they did more with the IP than this. So much of what meant so much to me was in those two movies. That disconnect is going to be hard to get over. It could have worked with an all female cast. It just had to be done right and with the right motivations.

[Mara Jade Skywalker]

 

 

Heck, despite a few questionable moments in The Phanton Menace trailer #1 (and can I be sure they aren't painted with hindsight?), even that film looks like it's gonna be super fun, not some paint-by-numbers cash grab!

That had to wait 15 years for The Force Awakens.

 

I cannot roll my eyes hard enough.