Curated Childhood

[Cerina]

http://www.jennifermcgrail.com/faq/

http://education.penelopetrunk.com/2015/10/27/what-if-all-they-want-to-do-is-play-video-games/

http://unschoolrules.com/2013/01/why-all-my-kids-want-to-do-is-play-video-games-isnt-such-a-bad-thing/

http://sett.com/unschoolery/wasting-time

 

These are just a few articles and blog posts I've read about this. I think the whole "video games all day" thing is going to be the new "socialization" worry/myth/joke.

[Driver]

Homework in elementary is stupid, btw. It's been proven to be pointless academically and potentially damaging emotionally.

Interestingly enough, we went to an open house at the middle school he is going to next year and it was a giant relief to see normal grades in play, and work up on the walls that actually seemed like it was grade appropriate.

 

Aside from the common core ridiculousness, my son's teacher only puts up perfect work on the hall walls for all to see. She thinks it will encourage all kids to try harder, but my kid basically gave up because he was tired of not meeting her expectations.

 

I knew his grade school had a shit ton of magnet school special grant money to justify, but I feel vindicated knowing I was right about them pushing those kids too far. The middle school work seemed easier than what he is being pushed with now.

 

You'll be happy to know that when his standardized tests happen next week I told him he didn't have to study for them. I know they are good for the schools, but his particular school can suck it.

 

 

The fact you're even stressing about this, and have started a thread at nightly asking for advice, suggests to me you're doing a fine job as a parent. I feel like people who wouldn't worry about this stuff might be seeing things with rose tinted glasses.

 

As for academia.. Well being good at it might make life a little easier or smoother. But being stoked on coming out of the sausage factory the right shape never made much sense to me. And still kind of doesn't though I see the advantages.

 

How old is your son?

He just turned 11. I'm okay with him not being an academic, I certainly never was and have managed to be a super important Hollywood douchebag that gets paid stupid money to make things up.

[Driver]

http://www.jennifermcgrail.com/faq/

http://education.penelopetrunk.com/2015/10/27/what-if-all-they-want-to-do-is-play-video-games/

http://unschoolrules.com/2013/01/why-all-my-kids-want-to-do-is-play-video-games-isnt-such-a-bad-thing/

http://sett.com/unschoolery/wasting-time

 

These are just a few articles and blog posts I've read about this. I think the whole "video games all day" thing is going to be the new "socialization" worry/myth/joke.

Very interesting reads-- and it does make me feel better about video games.

 

When I read about all this unschooling though I can't help but wonder... how long does this go for? Middle school? High school? For example, this:

 

How will they learn to read and write if I don’t teach them?

 

Babies learn to walk and talk without being taught. They learn because that’s what people do. “Birds fly, fish swim, man thinks and learns.” (John Holt) People learn. They learn because they’re surrounded by walking and talking people who (one would hope) love them, and support them, and help them. Reading and writing are no different.

 

That's great for a kid learning about the world with their own books. But I couldn't do what I do had I not gotten some higher education to learn professional skills. How does unschooling lead to higher education or professional jobs?

 

As much as I know grade school has a lot of bull crap involved, and I've told Oliver not to sweat the standardized testing, at the same time I didn't opt him out of it. We all want to be punk rock, but sometimes you have to work in the system. Sometimes you have to work for an asshole boss.

[Ms. Spam]

To weigh in from a teachers perspective who does not have kids:

 

• I'm loving that you care about this for O. Interest in your kids life and the kind of person who he'll be shows you love the hell out of your kid but you're not your kids best friend who'll let him do anything he wants because it's what you want(ed) to do. Kids actually need boundries and limitation otherwise they can push themselves too far which can hurt their health by stressing over not getting the thing they set their goal for or need for attainment. I guess what I'm aiming to describe is something like what some kids do where they'll play that video game non-stop until they beat it. I've seen it where the middle school kids do this all weekend long and have not slept and Monday rolls around and they're so tired and strung out it affects their health and mental acuity so they're like adults at work who went on a weekend bender or they don't come to school because they crashed.
• I think you've exposed O to a lot of stuff enough that he can start to get a feel for what he likes and can do. Overscheduling is crazy and kids do need down time just like adults. If anything letting him learn bass has helped him learn about music and reinforce math! Skating helped him with fine motor skills and he's doing geometry and physics in his head without thinking about it! HA! I feel like kids are still kids even when they get to college and that they're still developing and becoming adults and what you do now encourages O to explore options and see what he is capable of. Plus he knows he has this Dad-dude who's going to support him in his choices. Even the people you interact will help him expand his horizons as he's a little sponge picking up on all kinds of things with your own personal interactions.
• Unschooling is not for everyone. I think that Cerina's in a good spot in her world where this is something she can do and it works great for her. I look at her situation and feel this works for both her and her kids. This is not just "good" in her opinion concerning her children but it's something that works for her own personal situation. N was started right out of kindergarten and so this is what he knows now. O has been to school, has friends in school, and functions in that structured environment. There are rules and set time frames and structure he's used to. While no school is perfect and there is concerns - I won't lie, I have a parent or two that sometimes wish I did things a little different - there is a system in place to address issues. I think kids do need to get the lesson that sometimes things don't always work and that we need to make adjustments as we have to learn to function in society and work groups to achieve things or at least live cohesively. Compromise. Kids actually get that compromise before adults. Some day in the future you do want your kid to go and be and do adulty things like buy a house, get a successful career and be happy. They need to learn to do this without turning into Ted Kazinski and live in a cabin hating the world. You have to look at your personal situation and see what you are able to do as a person. I guess unschooling is just a version of Montessori learning where kids set what they want to learn and do it in their own time.
• I too actually tell my students not to sweat the standardized tests! HA! Not all kids test on paper well - this year it was a nightmare because we used a company that does computerized tests like the SAT is now like. Studies show that kids don't do well on the computerized testing. Personally while my pay is based on this test I don't want my students to feel pressure concerning this. I've seen kids who peed themselves. Or they shut down and I am at school until 7 PM because they're so scared to mark a circle they can't do it and they can't leave until the test is done (ridiculous stupid testing rules). It makes me mad that they base my fifth graders getting to on to sixth grade on this test instead of what they did for me all year in actual class course work in Texas. Originally testing was just a benchmark test to make sure kids across America were receiving the right education. There are people out on the road who passed a driving test who I won't even get into a car with to drive to go out to eat for lunch five minutes away. Why is this test so much more for kids?
• I like school. I like buying supplies. I loved getting on the bus every morning when I was a kid. I love putting up bulletin boards for my kids. I like to see each student - even the difficult ones - because I realize each person I interact with teaches me something. The hard part for me is doing actual paper work but I mean who likes that? Entering grades, getting report cards or going to meetings suck. But that's the trade off I get for getting kids to be the best people they can be. I think this year my pain in the ass parent is complaining I don't assign more homework. Their kid just seems to work through his problems faster and I suggested he's ahead of the kids because he's bright and advanced and we want to test him for the gifted mathematics progam (we're a charter school focusing on Language Arts but he's advanced mathematically) that would send him to another charter school in the district with a more focused progam for kids who are good at math and science but he'd have to go further than his current school to get there so they poopooed that. They want him to have double the math problems. Instead of suggested books to read or interesting math problems he can take home and work on they want him to do more math problems.

[Destiny Skywalker]

Do kids actually study for standardized tests? What? I thought the whole point was to measure what you've learned.

 

Don't get me wrong, I do believe in studying for exams and the like. But this has gotten ridiculous. I studied for 3 months for my PE license and even took a prep course. But I'm not going to sweat it if my kids don't do well on those dumb standardized tests, especially if they are doing well in most subjects.

[Ms. Spam]

Oh we study

[Driver]

Oliver's school makes them review a lot, but mostly they teach how to take tests and call it studying.

 

And thanks Spammy!

[Cerina]

Unschooling is child led learning, or interest led learning. If a kid decides they want to pursue a career that requires a degree, then they begin prepping for college and/or that degree. Just like any traditionally schooled student. The key difference is that unschooled kids want to do these things, and because of their background/upbringing are unlikely to be pursuing a degree because of external pressure or a sense of obligation. A lot of homeschooled/unschooled kids are choosing to utilize local community colleges for dual enrollment so they complete their high school requirements while receiving college credit. Noah is not very academically minded either. He loves science, obviously, and has recently developed an interest in ancient cultures, but other than that? He could not care less. He doesn't read or write. Not that he can't read, he can actually read on a pretty high level, but he won't. He likes being read to and he listens to audiobooks, but just don't ask him to read on his own! And he can't write worth a damn. He has fantastic number sense and mathematical reasoning, but he's rarely inclined to practice calculations on his own. But he's about to reach a ceiling in his science interest. He has learned about all he can from videos and shows, he'll have to switch to books and articles, and it's about to the point where he's going to have to learn more math to keep going and understanding. I think his desire to learn science is going to push him to read and do math. I need to do some research about some things I can strew about to kick start the math.

 

There is a growing movement of people uncollegeing (which I guess is a word now too). While I agree with the principle that everything you need to know can be learned thoroughly without ever seeing a classroom, I'm too lazy to deal with the extra headache of trying to prove to licensing boards or employees that I know the same as anyone who actually got the degree. But it is possible.

 

Classes are basically just short sessions of condensed knowledge and/or skills training/evaluation. Every subject or class is either going to be established facts/theories/principles (history, most natural and social sciences, math theory, etc.) or skill practice led/evaluated by an "expert" (writing, arts, math application, technical skills, etc.). Knowledge is everywhere in this day and age. It doesn't take much to learn what's already been established or discovered. And skills can be honed with independent practice and evaluated or polished with the help of mentors. A class is not strictly necessary, just easier and more efficient in many cases.

[pavonis]

Where do unschoolers find mentors to polish and evaluate children's knowledge and understanding on topics the parents aren't well-versed in?

[Cerina]

Typically I think they've started within their own circle of family and friends. Just letting people know that child is interested in X and asking if anyone knows anyone who does X and would be willing to connect with and mentor the kid. But I've heard about parents and kids also contacting companies and professional organizations the same way.

[Ms. Spam]

You know - the only thing I confess to not knowing in class is long division. Screw the remainders.

 

I teach testing skills to help kids cope with the tests. For example don't linger on a problem you're stuck on but go on to the next question if you can't get it and come back. The reason being is that the questions aren't weighted so get more of the ones you know and come back to work on the one your struggling with at the end. Or we focus on graphing. Some kids struggle with that. We also have endless and I can tell you endless meetings about word problems.

[Poe Dameron]

We also have endless and I can tell you endless meetings about word problems.

 

That's not a bad thing. Truth be told, kids should be a lot better at word problems than they are. Knowing how to mindlessly crunch the numbers isn't worth much when you can't figure out when to do it. It also allows a student to put those symbols and what they're computing into some sort of context. What does division mean and when do you use it.

 

Usually, that would be the higher level thinking teachers and parents say they want in stimulating students. Unfortunately, they're also the problems parents remember hating when they were kids...

[pavonis]

Life is one long series of word problems.

[Cerina]

High school calculus and physics would both be easier and make more sense if taught together.

[pavonis]

Agreed, though calculus has applications outside of physics that wouldn't be touched upon in a pure physics class. And calculus really isn't that hard if the student is good at algebra. Once you have the limit concept down, calculus is just a lot of algebra.

[Darth Ender]

 

Homework in elementary is stupid, btw. It's been proven to be pointless academically and potentially damaging emotionally.

 

Be careful when you make a blanket statement like this. This isn't how research works. No researcher will say X proves or doen't prove Y. A researcher will say there is a relationship between X and Y. What happens is a research paper will say X is not reliable due to a correlation coefficient of whatever under these certain conditions and some bad journalist will run with it as homework is bad and then some ridiculous blogger will twist it even further. There is plenty of research that supports that meaningful and targeted homework improves student academic performance. A paper this years has even found a positively correlated relationship that meaningful and targeted homework is MOST effective at the elementary level. But to your point, many educators at all levels are not successful at giving effective homework.

 

A huge issue in facing a student's future academic achievement is overlooking early literacy skills, specifically before third grade when looking at achievement in STEM subject areas. Content comprehension, content literacy and advanced vocabulary in science is an advanced skill that many schools unfortunately do not specifically target. A problem many educators have is that because they assume a child can read fiction, he/she can read STEM text. General literacy does not always successfully transfer to STEM content areas. This leads to huge problems down the road as students cannot effectively comprehend or critique STEM content writing. To get a reluctant reader/ writer motivated at the elementary level I would recommend looking up Piagetian literacy programs. Basically, the idea of Piagetian programs is to customize learning strategies to the student's developmental ability. Often times students are reluctant readers and writers because they are not being met at their developmental level.

 

As far as video game usage, a 2014 meta-analysis on the effect size (impact) on video game usage and there does not appear to be a relationship one wat or the other. However, in the paper's discussion, the authors write, "Another possibility is that those who find that video-games interfere with their schooling may choose not to play or to reduce time spent playing, or have this choice made for them (e.g., by parents). Alternatively, regular gamers may habituate to the activity, attenuating negative effects on academic outcome".

[Guest Hwa_rang]

Back to the original question, about curating children's lives, I didn't think before I had kids I'd do it. The first kid wasn't very curated at all.he tried the requisite kid sports, and then decided what he wanted to stay with. I refused to be running somewhere every night. I just didn't want to spend my nights shuttling him back and forth to crap. He played a drum a few years in school, because that's what was a cool, instrument for boys or something. The next two, due to their needs, lead some highly curated lives. I like to think they're curated with choices at least. They could choose to spend periods of time doing nothing. Sometimes the middle one does. I don't know what exactly he does, but you'd better leave him alone an hour every night. But it's on a schedule. So, it's curated. The youngest is more curated, simply by matter of qualifying to be more curated. He seems happy with it though. If he didn't, we'd consider changing things. I think some kids thrive on being more curated and structured.

I probably over protected the hell out of him the first few years of life, because his first few months were such a struggle. I like to think I calmed down before I messed him up too bad. I let him go places once he was big enough to be trusted to let me know where he was going, and he could read a watch so that he could tell what time he needed to come back home. If you can't tell me where you're going, and you can't be trusted to come back on time, you can't go. That's it. I think it's a pretty simple rule.

The you can't tell me where you're going and know when to come back is why the middle and youngest don't get to go where they want, among other things. Middle kid wants to go places by himself, but he can't be trusted not to lose his shit if something goes wrong. Youngest one doesn't care yet, at least I think. I can't get him to leave me and go outside and bring in a trash can.