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Okay...it's taken me a long time to go through this and think about it because I have a big conflict of interest involved. I also want to say right off the bat, so that there's no misunderstanding, t

I tried reading one of my old EU novels recently, and all the pages were blank! Did this happen to anyone else?

Man. Freaking fandom.   Anyone who cares about fictional things that much needs more in their life. And I say that as somebody who makes a living making fictional things. If something NOT REAL matters

No trolling Driver, I'm honestly curious, the PT couldn't rob your enjoyment of the OT any more than TFA should be able to rob their enjoyment of the EU and yet you're all talking to him like it's 2 different things. You were so royally pissed at the PT for YEARS when all you had to do was not watch them and just watch the OT. (I get the point about Lucas not making the versions you like readily available but I'm talking big picture)

 

You do mention being able to relate to him so you get the parallel but specific comments like "You can still read the books" beg for the comeback "you could have still watched the OT but you didn't leave it at that"

 

You're a friend so this is me trying to understand the hypocrisy, not burn you at the stake for it.

 

Z, where you lost me was with that "FU" ****. That was you crapping all over OUR enjoyment of the new stories just as you accuse us of crapping on your old stories. Out of misplaced anger directed at people who didn't make this decision you crapped on our emotions first.

You bring up a pretty fair point. My words to Zerimar and Poe do seem to be confusing my point a little bit.

 

I'll try to clarify--

 

1. As always, as I've mentioned before, the blinding rage I have for the PT overrules any sense of logic, fairness, and respect of what an opinion is. :)

 

2. I never felt that the PT actively ruined the OT, or made it "not count." It was still special and I still did rewatch it from time to time. The luster was tarnished for sure, but the PT never could take away what Star Wars meant to me as a kid. I would never say that I wasted my time watching the movies because the back story was retconned to poop. Poe is talking like he literally wasted months of his childhood reading books that are now no longer in continuity. That's akin to me saying all those times I played with my Star Wars toys when I was a kid and filling in the back story with my imagination was a waste of time because it didn't happen that way.

 

3. I'm telling Zerimar I get what it feels like because to him Star Wars canon was full of stories he liked that were part of the landscape. After the PT, the EU ran with it, and while I liked the Clone Wars cartoon, everything Star Wars related-- games, toys, collectables, etc., were mostly PT themed. The "PT era" of Star Wars lasted for 15 years, well after ROTS had come and gone. My version of Star Wars was different from pop culture's-- so I get how he feels now that's it's shifted. It sucked, but it never took away what Star Wars was to me as a kid.

 

4. He and Poe can like what they like, and I can respect that evenif I think they like something terrible. I could argue all day about how terrible I think the EU is, but if somebody wants to love it, that's their right, and no one, not even me can take it from the,.

 

 

 

I'm not sure what your goal is if you just want to be rude and dismissive to everyone that disagrees with you.

Actually, I think I've been pretty fair. If anything, if you catch my posts immediately after posting and click on them again a few minutes later, you'll find that I even make a habit of scrubbing out things that might be personally confrontational in edits to tamp down on hurt feelings. And, for the most part, I’ve avoided the Lyceum until the bathroom thread. I’ll grant you I recently confronted Mara on her always bringing up Rey’s gender (coupled with the bathroom thing it was a busy weekend), but if I were just looking for trouble I would have done that back in December when I first got here.

 

As for my being rude and dismissive, of the two of us, which has tried to spread a reputation of the other person taking things too literal? Which has posted eye rolling gifs. Which of us applauded Cerina for outright being dismissive of my opinion because I’m a guy in the hours before posting this? Which of us intimated that I was screaming into a pillow in rage simply because I walked away from a discussion when I saw you were becoming overheated?

 

But even with that, I didn’t join Justus in calling you a SJW when he came around in that other thread. I even asked you to stop attacking yourself on my behalf a few months ago. So, again, which of us holds more right to grievance?

 

Anyway, I need to get to work, so I can’t complete my thoughts. But just to answer your question, my goal is just to put my thoughts out there into the universe. I’m not even trying to change your mind directly. It’s more a hope that people read it, think about it later, and consider it outside of the heat of the internet.

 

I honestly try not to go troll-- but it happens after countless back and forths where clearly no progress is being made. As I've said before, don;t take me seriously except for when I'm serious.

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I can't seem to use the quote feature here on my work station (my home computer is in the shop).

ShowDog: I realize that, and I apologized for my behavior a long time ago. Granted, I have used the term "FU" a few times since then, but it was in such a context where it was a clear example of playful banter as such a thing had sort of become part of my personality on these boards, and other people were using it in a joking manner as well (pro-Disney canon people, mind you).

Here's the problem for me, folks: It's not that the new canon is different, it's not that the EU continuity is somehow psychologically false now (it's still real to me), and it's not that those materials are all still there for me to read whenever I want. The problem is that the EU has been discontinued and there are no more stories being published from that continuity (aside from The Old Republic MMO). There are unresolved conflicts that will forever remain unresolved.

Just let the EU continue under the Legends banner. That's all I want. It will pretty much run itself and Disney will do nothing but enjoy the revenue generated from it without ever having to touch it. While I'd like the EU back in its former glory--with novels, comics, video games, source books, etc.--I know that that is highly unlikely and would be happy even if they published the material exclusively on StarWars.com.

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The problem is that the EU has been discontinued and there are no more stories being published from that continuity (aside from The Old Republic MMO). There are unresolved conflicts that will forever remain unresolved.

C'est la vie. When Frank Herbert died, there was no resolution to the conflict he had been building towards in Chapterhouse: Dune. I understand that some people claim a sequel or sequels to Chapterhouse: Dune exists, but I don't recognize them and won't read them. On the other hand, I certainly won't be advocating for a ghola of Herbert to continue his stories, either.

 

You were never going to get closure on the EU, anyway. Its end was inevitable, and no one was ever going to write a big final happy ending for the entire EU, either. Therefore there were always going to be unresolved plot threads. That's pretty much how life works.

 

Just let the EU continue under the Legends banner. That's all I want. It will pretty much run itself and Disney will do nothing but enjoy the revenue generated from it without ever having to touch it. While I'd like the EU back in its former glory--with novels, comics, video games, source books, etc.--I know that that is highly unlikely and would be happy even if they published the material exclusively on StarWars.com.

That's not just unlikely - it's not going to happen ever. The EU is dead. Maybe some godawful Dune EU stories will fill the void you feel?

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I get people being disappointed but like has been pointed out, fictional stories end all the time without being finished. Disappointment is one thing, acting as if something has been personally done to harm you is another.

 

 

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Disney doesn't want to confuse the marketplace by having 2 different continuities at once.

I can think of the MCU and "Earth Mightiest Heroes" running concurrently.
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Especially given that the people who decide to read Star Wars in book form are the kind of people who fully grip the concept of alternate realities/time lines.

If a company wants to limit their audience to just geeks who Get It, that's certainly an option, but not a very satisfying one from a long-term business perspective. Reader intelligence is ultimately irrelevant.

 

Ideally you want to welcome as many readers as possible to a novel series, even if it's Star Wars. Potential converts could include younger readers transitioning from the YA aisle and not as inured to, or as interested in, concurrent alternate universes. Maybe it means sci-fi readers who like a good yarn but don't want to slog through forty hours of Star Wars novel synopses on Wikipedia or Wookieepedia before they can start page 1 of the latest novel. Maybe it means former SW EU fans who dropped out long ago but could be convinced to return if given a really tantalizing reason with no homework preqrequisite. Maybe it means fans for whom The Force Awakens was their entry point and they want more stuff like that, stuff made today and of-the-moment (maybe even, y'know, Relevant), not the stuff gathering dust on Mom or Dad's shelves since the Reagan era.

 

As we've seen in comics, as a shared corporate universe goes on for years and into decades, the audience base is in a persistent state of attrition unless you keep providing access points for new readers to replace the ones you lose along the way to death, disinterest, or rage. Skillfully interwoven exposition and recap pages certainly carry readers old and new over the short term, but one thing people love more than joining a fun party-in-progress is being in on the ground floor of a new fun party. And they want to be at the party that matters, not some offshoot party with watered-down drinks and a lower-paid DJ.

 

It's nice that longtime readers have been loyal and open with their wallets. But as their numbers dwindle (whether readers notice their thinning ranks or not), any rational publisher needs more than just them to stay in business. Disney may be huge, but no way are they gonna publish at a loss to cater to a shrinking portion of their overall massive audience. That's not the kind of charity they can legally write off on their corporate tax forms.

 

I'd love it if The Wire were still going and were up to season 13 by now, but if my rave reviews kept telling readers, "This show is GLORIOUS but you gotta go back and watch all of seasons 1-12 before you come anywhere near the new episodes or else you'll be totally lost and have no idea who any of the 326 regular cast members are," I'd have to be a pretty thick-skulled idealist to expect any easy converts. Maybe one or two curious weirdos if I'm lucky. If HBO thought the brand still had tremendous monetary value but were concerned about its .0005 Nielsen ratings, a reboot would be a great way to revive the name and invigorate the concept, despite infuriating me personally.

 

If that sounds like a horribly depressing paradigm that's traumatically inconsiderate of old-fan emotional attachments...well, my recommendation is to never, ever get attached to any large-scale corporate fictional universes ever again. Sooner or later before you die, there will be a reboot whose target demographic is the kids stomping all over your lawn. It has nothing to do with reader intelligence and everything to do with reaching new generations, whether for their money or their hearts.

Edited by NumberSix
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I wonder if Number Six ever mailed letters to DC Comics demanding that Crisis on Infinite Earths be overturned.


I was 13 in 1985. I had no problem understanding the pre-Crisis multiple Earths, but when they pounded on their big red RESET button, they also recruited an all-star line-up of writers and artists I really liked to relaunch every single major hero. I welcomed it and I LOVED it.

(Well, at first. Setting aside Green Lantern: Emerald Dawn and Hawkman's eleventeen false starts.)
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Especially given that the people who decide to read Star Wars in book form are the kind of people who fully grip the concept of alternate realities/time lines.

 

I agree with this, but in this day and age it's not that simple. You'd have EU books being summarized by links online that the average movie fan may click on to read. For instance say there was a new EU book in an alternate timeline to the movies, you could easily see clickbait articles with links like "Find out what happens to Luke in "whatever title" book. People click on it, read it and it leads to confusion.

 

I'm not saying I agree with their thinking, but I think that's what it is. The fact is I don't really care what they do book wise, I'm not going to read any books they put out in any timeline. I read one EU book ever, Shadows of the Empire, and I didn't like it at all.

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I wonder if Number Six ever mailed letters to DC Comics demanding that Crisis on Infinite Earths be overturned.

 

I was 13 in 1985. I had no problem understanding the pre-Crisis multiple Earths, but when they pounded on their big red RESET button, they also recruited an all-star line-up of writers and artists I really liked to relaunch every single major hero. I welcomed it and I LOVED it.

 

(Well, at first. Setting aside Green Lantern: Emerald Dawn and Hawkman's eleventeen false starts.)

 

I a glad they continued that success by giving New 52 books to....Rob Liefeld—Nevermind.

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Uhhh, yeah, New 52 was a different story. I tried nearly half the launch titles and was down to collecting maybe 4 of them before the end of year 1. A flunking grade, all told. And now I'm just down to special projects until/unless Rebirth gives me something readable.

 

The New Canon reboot was jarring enough to kill my wife's interest in new SW novels going forward, but I don't sense any real ineptitude about it that I'd rank as Threat Level Liefeld.

Edited by NumberSix
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Uhhh, yeah, New 52 was a different story. I tried nearly half the launch titles and was down to collecting maybe 4 of them before the end of year 1. A flunking grade, all told. And now I'm just down to special projects until/unless Rebirth gives me something readable.

 

The New Canon reboot was jarring enough to kill my wife's interest in new SW novels going forward, but I don't sense any real ineptitude about it that I'd rank as Threat Level Liefeld.

 

I'm mainly down to Batman, Harley Quinn, Lois and Clark, and Justice League (due to the Anti-Monitor's heavy involvement, though I am beyond ready for it to be over at the moment) and Batman is potentially gone now that Snyder is off of it. There has been some great work to come out of the relaunch, like Azarello's Wonder Woman, but most of the books that held my attention are long gone. I'm now mainly picking up Marvel books with some Image and Vertigo titles sprinkled in, as well.

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Wanted to post the following video from a major voice in the Legends movement, Matt Wilkins (yes, I know people love to talk smack on him, but you'll get that no matter what platform you're on, as he explains in the video). Posting this mainly for people like Mara who feel they've been treated poorly.

 

Mara, I hope you'll watch this.

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Man. Freaking fandom.

 

Anyone who cares about fictional things that much needs more in their life. And I say that as somebody who makes a living making fictional things. If something NOT REAL matters to you so much you are making death threats you are broken.

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