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What if I don't want to go back to the 50s?


190 replies to this topic

#1
Ms. Spam

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A birth certificate to use the bathroom, NC?

 

The Bible as your state symbol, TN?

 

How much does a state lawmaker make? 'Cause these laws are ridiculous.



#2
Carrie Mathison

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What state in the 50s had the bible as their state symbol?

 

As far as the NC issue, well let me ask you this.  Would you be comfortable if one day you walked in the restroom and saw some middle aged dude standing there in an open stall taking a leak?  Or let's say you're at the gym and you walk in the locker room and the first thing you see is some naked dude (or barely clothed) walking around with his dick swinging about.  Only to find out later that both of these men are in fact, transwomen.  Would you be comfortable with that?  Be honest with me.

 

Or would you require some sort of proof of transition?  If so, what would that proof look like?  Merely cross dressing?  What about hormone therapy?  Do you need sex reassignment surgery?

 

What if you're bigender or pangender, and your gender identity sorta shifts depending on what day it is?  Can that person use your restroom Spam?


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#3
Good God a Bear

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:spit:


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#4
Cerina

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Penises don't really frighten me. So I honestly don't care. I mean that. It doesn't alarm me to find men in the restroom. It means little to me to see people naked, men or women.

#5
Carrie Mathison

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Me neither.  Here in Europe, unisex restrooms are quite a bit more common, especially in Scandinavia, so it doesn't particularly bother me.

 

But that being said, I'm wondering if spam actually considered any of this or if she's knee-jerk reacting again to her FB wall of what, apparently, are like 90% rabid Tea Party types.

 

I don't have a stance on it, but I also think this is an issue that affects people in a much more direct way that actually impacts them (as opposed to an issue, like say, gay marriage), and given that the expectation of privacy can vary dramatically between people, it's not all that unreasonable when you get significant differences in opinion.


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#6
The Choc

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I don't really have a stance on it either.

 

The other day I saw someone with a sign that said "You've already shared a public restroom with a transgender person and you survived!" I guess basically saying "no big deal." Which I agree with. However I'm sure every transgender person has shared a public restroom with people of their previous (would that be the right term?) sex and they also survived. So that kinda works both ways.



#7
Ms. Spam

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I worked in the food industry for quite a while so no, not uncomfortable at all.

#8
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The Bible question I can say no to, but it feels like the laws being passed at a local or state level have a certain institutional racist tone

#9
Poe Dameron

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A birth certificate to use the bathroom, NC?

For what it's worth, I consider it modern insanity that a person's sex is based, not on genetics and morphology, but on their preference for living the life on culturally normative standards of masculinity/femininity.

 

I mean, I'm all for tolerance, and I don't want to make things difficult for anyone.  A dude wants to put on a dress, that's his business.  A woman wants to cut her hair short and scratch her crotch in public, go for it.  But, can I stop at the point where I embrace the delusion that they actually ARE men or women?  That it's not an issue of equal rights but of reality vs. what someone wishes were reality?

 

Restrooms and changing rooms are segregated by sex for good reasons of safety, modesty, and comfort (Cerina's ease notwithstanding), particularly on the woman's side.  I really don't think of it as a human rights issue that this rule stands.  Especially when accommodations are offered for the safety and well-being of transgendered people as well, as they usually are.

 

If a woman or young girl is made to feel uncomfortable in her locker room by the presence of a boy, then it is not just something she should be made to "get over".  She isn't the problem.  She's the person that segregated facilities based on sex are there to protect in the first place.



#10
Darth Ender

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I am all for unisex bathrooms.  They will still have individual stalls to ensure privacy if you want, so who cares?

 

I think the next place this will go is locker rooms.  Again, this doesn't bother me.  Every time I go to the gym locker room there is some 300lb naked dude or old man balls swinging around.  Like I want to see that.  But with that said, playing sports my whole life, I have a much different expectation of privacy in a locker room/ bathroom.  I could see more modest individuals having issues.  

 

My general frustration with many people that are for more gender fluid bathrooms, they are so quick to call people that are against this intolerant and bigoted.  But that is how society works now I suppose.  Voting Trump, you are a racist.  You like Obama, you are a terrorist sympathizer/ communist.  



#11
Pong Messiah

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In general, are women more skeezed out by the idea of men in women's restrooms?

 

Do men think trans women are just "faking it" in order to creep on other women?

 

I am not calling anybody names, but what, exactly, is the objection?



#12
Poe Dameron

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In general, are women more skeezed out by the idea of men in women's restrooms?

 

Is this really something you need to ask?  A girl walks into a men's restroom, she'd probably receive a heroine's welcome in most places.

 

Anyway, it doesn't even need to be "in general" (although it is).  Women are a heck of a lot more likely to have suffered sexual abuse.  You want to talk about triggers, there you go.  Doesn't get more triggery than a man invading a place where a woman is naked and vulnerable.  If there's anywhere that deserves to be a true and legitimate "safe space", it's there.

 

That's being taken away in the name of ignoring an inconvenient fact.

 

There are ways to handle this that don't go stepping on other people's rights.  Or to brainwash the population in an Orwellian fashion into believing that a verifiable binary fact (almost all the time) is malleable.



#13
Pong Messiah

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Is this really something you need to ask?  A girl walks into a men's restroom, she'd probably receive a heroine's welcome in most places.

Yeah, you'd think so. But it is something I need to ask, because in my experience following this issue, the ones vocally opposing/mocking "identity bathrooms" are overwhelmingly male, while the ones vocally supporting them have been overwhelmingly female.

 

I have liked some of the insults, though. It has gone beyond the usual "U R A REDNECKHATERBIGOT IF U DISAGREE" to psychological theories like "You are clearly living in terror of your wife discovering that even a transitioning women has a way bigger penis than you." Attempting to shut down discussion on an issue by referencing your opponent's penis size is usually reserved for 2nd Amendment debates. Nice to see this technique being utilized in other formats!


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#14
Ms. Spam

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I'm not. And Mom's with boy children have had to go in after their kid in a mens room I bet a few times. So what? They've seen it and wiped it. If you've got body issues hold it and just pee at home.

 

I'm far more freaked out by filthy bathrooms than a man/sheman/feman using the facilities. If you go to a festival where portapotties are everywhere no one freaks out about that. Public restrooms have stalls that lock just like a portapotty.

 

We just seem to more prudish as a country now. 


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#15
Pong Messiah

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Agreed, Spam.

 

I tried to think of a situation where I'd be truly uncomfortable using a unisex bathroom, and all I could think of was if I had food poisoning and couldn't tell what end my dinner was going to be coming out of and had to race past a woman on my way to a stall. And even then, I'd only care if it was an attractive woman.

 

Realistically, how often is that going to happen?



#16
Hwa_rang

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I don't usually look at people's genitals when I'm in a bathroom. In a women's room, we're all in individual stalls. If they're dressed as a female, I won't see anything to suggest otherwise. In a men's room, I suspect it's the trans man who'd be mostly at any sort of risk. What about people who do identify as the gender they were born, but just don't look very feminine or masculine? I'm sure most people have seen a person and wondered whether it was a male or female. Should those people also carry identification to flash before entering a bathroom?
Unisex bathrooms aren't just for people with different gender identities. Just wait till you have a kid who can't be trusted alone in a bathroom but is older than 5 or so. I've got kids who needed assistance in bathrooms past the age when it would typically be accepted to bring them in the women's room with me. I couldn't sit around and not take them anywhere unless I had a man to help take them to the bathroom. They couldn't always be trusted either to sit and wait outside a bathroom for me. I tried to find places with single bathrooms as best I could, but that's not always a choice. I took them in and dealt with the looks. Far more when taking them in with me than if I went into the men's room with them. I'd still enter a men's room if I thought of them had been there too long, or if I didn't hear him making noise anymore.
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#17
Ms. Spam

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I think as a guy there is an issue because it's about schlongs or something based on my interactions with boys in school. I have seen guys who do have to sit to pee and don't use the urinal.

 

I guess my biggest issue is more to do with why do these laws need to be passed more than anything. It's like the legislating to apply a standard or cement an idealogy because they think something is being attacked but in reality it's just a useless frivolous law. I've heard it turned around where handicapped people have to have access and special entrance and parking so setting forth rules concerning this important bathroom etiquette is needed but whatever. Comparing a business having to build a ramp to help the handicapped to making bathrooms a birth certificate dictator of what restroom you get to use doesn't even compare. I don't care about the implications towards how a tranny feels because in the end she'll just pee on your walls outside if she can't use the restroom denoted to her birth certificate sex but more about why do people feel law needs to be passed to protect the sanctity of the public restroom?

 

I just thought I'd add that Bible as the official symbol of Tennessee because I thought it was funny. Lots of states pass stupid frivolous laws but the most published book in the world? Maybe Maine can make Stephen Kings books their symbol? Mississippi's also passed a law that is no same sex couple can adopt a kid.



#18
Pong Messiah

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I have seen guys who do have to sit to pee and don't use the urinal.

Uh, why are you watching guys pee? I mean, if it's a thing for you, go ahead, ofc.



#19
Poe Dameron

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I guess my biggest issue is more to do with why do these laws need to be passed more than anything.

 

I believe because it's being cemented in the opposite direction.  In adult bathrooms, I don't think many people actually do care outside of straight-up locker rooms like at a gym.  But it's being applied down at to the school level by the feds (threatening to cut off funds) without any input from anyone beyond a few bureaucrats.

 

That's where people really start to get squeamish and want to hit the pause button.  Particularly when it's pretty easy to find accommodations, but commonsense is not applied out of some odd notion that this is an equal rights issue.


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#20
Ms. Spam

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I have seen guys who do have to sit to pee and don't use the urinal.

Uh, why are you watching guys pee? I mean, if it's a thing for you, go ahead, ofc.

my brother was a sitter who never locked the bathroom door.

#21
monkeygirl

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What state in the 50s had the bible as their state symbol?

 

Would you be comfortable if one day you walked in the restroom and saw some middle aged dude standing there in an open stall taking a leak?  Or let's say you're at the gym and you walk in the locker room and the first thing you see is some naked dude (or barely clothed) walking around with his dick swinging about.  Only to find out later that both of these men are in fact, transwomen.  Would you be comfortable with that?  Be honest with me.

 

Or would you require some sort of proof of transition?  If so, what would that proof look like?  Merely cross dressing?  What about hormone therapy?  Do you need sex reassignment surgery?

 

What if you're bigender or pangender, and your gender identity sorta shifts depending on what day it is?  Can that person use your restroom Spam?

 

 

 

 

 

Jesus ****ing Christ, I thought I was the most pedantic poster here.

 

Spam says she doesn't want to go back to the 50s because so many of these unnecessary laws are regressive. She wasn't saying that any state had a Bible as its symbol in the 50s. You're just pretending not to grasp this, right?

 

I'll admit, I've not been in many men's locker rooms; do men inside often walk around with their dicks "swinging about"? I'm also guessing that a trans woman in a women's locker room wouldn't be acting this way. From my limited experience with trans women, most pre-ops seem to not like having a dick and wouldn't likely be 'swinging it about'.

 

I'll also admit, I'd be a little taken aback to see a person who presents as male in a ladies' room, but I wouldn't be shocked, repelled or demand any 'proof' of the person's gender identity. If the person would be going about his/her business and not doing anything odd, I'd simply go about MY business.

 

The GOP Right is simply pandering to their base with these ridiculous laws designed to make bigots feel okay. I can't imagine caring this much about who pees where.

 

 

 


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#22
Good God a Bear

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I personally don't care, but here's my take.

 

What is so wrong with having 3 bathrooms? One for men, one for women and one for 'who the hell cares just come in a take a pee/dump?'

 

That would cover everyone, including the ones who would feel uncomfortable.


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#23
Pong Messiah

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Justice can't AFFORD three bathrooms, you bigot.
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#24
Good God a Bear

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Nazi


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#25
Pong Messiah

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Bazot!!!


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