2016 U.S. General Election

[Tex]

One of my favorite things to do recently is to watch SJW election meltdowns on youtube. I knew people were going to have a hard time with Trump in office but dammmn. A lot of them are saying they're gonna kill themselves, most go on about Trump supporters being idiots/racists/whatever (thanks!), some are even breaking they're TVs, and yeah, there's a ton of tears.

 

Give em a try, Tami. Might make you feel better!

[Ms. Spam]

Omg! Sheriff Joe is top of the list for homeland security. Wtf?

[Guest El Chalupacabra]

Just a quick comment on the cry-ins, and I know I'm just another white dude piling on. Seriously, I get that some people are majorly upset Trump won. I wholly expected Hillary to have won, and I get that some people really wanted that to happen for whatever reason. She did win the popular vote, after all, so even though Trump won electorally, over half the country (at least those who voted) didn't vote for him. I also get that I do have advantages other people might not have, so I can see why someone would be so invested in having wanted to keep Trump out of the White House, whether that reason is real, or perception. People have a right to be upset.

 

But cry ins? Wearing safety pins? That is just immature, nutty, and destroys any credibility someone has, as far as I am concerned. If someone wants to do something about it, do something more constructive. Like I don't know, prepping for the mid-term election? Just a thought.

 

 

Omg! Sheriff Joe is top of the list for homeland security. Wtf?

If that happens, I am going to have my own cry in.

 

Seriously, though, I doubt he will take it. His wife has cancer, and I would be surprised if he moves to Washington to take the job.

 

Then again, he is the type of guy who would.

[Guest]

monkeygirl has been a total bitch who has either outright stated or insinuated that every Trump supporter is a racist. She's not interested in doing anything other than shaming everyone who disagrees with her because she lives in a bubble and is full of hate. So, yeah, I'm going to call her on being a bitch, and those people cost Hillary the election.

 

If you're okay with her being a bitch, that's fine, but don't say that I can't call her on it because I'm a white male.

 

If that's the case, then as a rich white male, you should literally not be able to speak period.

[Guest El Chalupacabra]

Well, you have to admit that there are some Trumpers out there that have been pretty excessive with their gloating, and are just needling some people who voted for Clinton a little too much.

[Odine]

When brexit happened the thing that made me and a lot of people down, was not the result. But that the result was so close, the country was/is divided bang down the middle. And people are vehemently opposed to one and other. For what seemed, to me, to be arbitrary political spin. I mean, really it's all a load of bullshit. Division for a whole lot of nothing. Does this not bother you guys with your own situation?

[Guest]

Well, you have to admit that there are some Trumpers out there that have been pretty excessive with their gloating, and are just needling some people who voted for Clinton a little too much.

Sure, and if they were here, I would give them the smell shit.

 

But just because person a is an asshole doesn't mean person b gets to be an asshole.

 

I didn't vote for either one of them, but I am 99.9% sure that I don't have anything left to say to either side other than see me when you grow up.

[Cerina]

GUYS! With the name-calling. Cut it out. Keep it civil without personal attacks.

[Driver]

monkeygirl has been a total bitch who has either outright stated or insinuated that every Trump supporter is a racist. She's not interested in doing anything other than shaming everyone who disagrees with her because she lives in a bubble and is full of hate. So, yeah, I'm going to call her on being a bitch, and those people cost Hillary the election.

 

If you're okay with her being a bitch, that's fine, but don't say that I can't call her on it because I'm a white male.

 

If that's the case, then as a rich white male, you should literally not be able to speak period.

Don't get mad. I wasn't saying that at all. You can 100% say what you think, I ain't no censor. I was just pointing out why people who aren't white males see statements like that as one of privilege. Not saying it;s right or, wrong, just why.

[Ms. Spam]

Guys. This is hard all the way around. People process and move on in different ways. I think monkeygirl is way toned down than others and while it is not pretty it will be okay.

 

But the cabinet picks are freaking me out.

[Guest]

 

 

monkeygirl has been a total bitch who has either outright stated or insinuated that every Trump supporter is a racist. She's not interested in doing anything other than shaming everyone who disagrees with her because she lives in a bubble and is full of hate. So, yeah, I'm going to call her on being a bitch, and those people cost Hillary the election.

 

If you're okay with her being a bitch, that's fine, but don't say that I can't call her on it because I'm a white male.

 

If that's the case, then as a rich white male, you should literally not be able to speak period.

Don't get mad. I wasn't saying that at all. You can 100% say what you think, I ain't no censor. I was just pointing out why people who aren't white males see statements like that as one of privilege. Not saying it;s right or, wrong, just why.

If the people crying were actually doing something about it instead of just getting together to cry, or were protesting with actual goals other than just to make noise, I would be there with them. I never even considered voting Trump, and if he does screw up, I'll be among the first screaming for impeachment. But the overly emotional activities do nothing but hurt the cause. And, again, the people who keep painting 47% of the US as racist/sexist/horrible people for voting Trump are just plain stupid. And I'm not backing down from that at all, even if Cerina decides to ban me.

[Guest]

When brexit happened the thing that made me and a lot of people down, was not the result. But that the result was so close, the country was/is divided bang down the middle. And people are vehemently opposed to one and other. For what seemed, to me, to be arbitrary political spin. I mean, really it's all a load of bull****. Division for a whole lot of nothing. Does this not bother you guys with your own situation?

Sure does, and it is why I voted for a party that has a mission of solidarity. My vote was pretty meaningless, ad the guy only got ~500 votes in Ohio, but I'd rather be the guy trying to fight the fire with a water gun than the guy continuing to throw gas on the fire.

[Driver]

 

 

monkeygirl has been a total bitch who has either outright stated or insinuated that every Trump supporter is a racist. She's not interested in doing anything other than shaming everyone who disagrees with her because she lives in a bubble and is full of hate. So, yeah, I'm going to call her on being a bitch, and those people cost Hillary the election.

 

If you're okay with her being a bitch, that's fine, but don't say that I can't call her on it because I'm a white male.

 

If that's the case, then as a rich white male, you should literally not be able to speak period.

Don't get mad. I wasn't saying that at all. You can 100% say what you think, I ain't no censor. I was just pointing out why people who aren't white males see statements like that as one of privilege. Not saying it;s right or, wrong, just why.

If the people crying were actually doing something about it instead of just getting together to cry, or were protesting with actual goals other than just to make noise, I would be there with them. I never even considered voting Trump, and if he does screw up, I'll be among the first screaming for impeachment. But the overly emotional activities do nothing but hurt the cause. And, again, the people who keep painting 47% of the US as racist/sexist/horrible people for voting Trump are just plain stupid. And I'm not backing down from that at all, even if Cerina decides to ban me.

 

I get that. It's a problem in the household at the moment when my life partner says she wants to go on a march and I'm all ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Tex]

As funny as I've found the overreactions I also see it as an opportunity for these people to grow up a bit. I fully expect many of them to become even more bitter, judgmental, and hateful over time but I'm hopeful that some of them will learn that you don't always get your way in life. Maybe when they look back on this in a few years they'll see just how childish they were about the whole thing.

[Driver]

The voice of experience?

[Guest]

For what its worth, if there was a march that was about more than throwing a fit, I'd be right there. I just don't see any leadership really helping to define why they're marching.

I'm also very much in the "wait and see" camp now. I don't like Trump, I campaigned against him, and, gun to my head, Trump or die, I legitimately would've picked the bullet. I want my kids to grow up in a better world than that, I want them to inherit something worthwhile. But at the same time, I don't see the opposition really offering anything to get behind, and that's why I'm so upset by the idiocy that I see, because I want SOMEONE to be the adult in this situation, and I'm not really finding it. I see a lot of schoolyard bullies trying to scare minorities, a president more concerned with his brand than governance, an outgoing president who has been overly concerned with his legacy, and getting together and crying just doesn't help.

 

Come up with a list of reasonable demands. Don't demand that Trump support abortion, or put X number of minorities on his staff, because that is really stuff that isn't going to win. Trump's going to have the cabinet he has, even if they seem disgusting (Although maybe he's just getting these people so he can say "You're fired!" as president).

 

Come up with demands like doing something to study ways to improve the role of women in government, to combat legal discrimination, and then join Trump on his items with which you agree, and unless someone is incredibly socially liberal and incredibly fiscally conservative, there's guaranteed to be something you agree on.

 

In other words, listen to Bernie. So far, he's the adult in the room (country).

[Cerina]

Meh. Like Driver said, for some people it isn't about crying because you lost but being scared about what's going to happen now. For an example, my cousin was really scared that now with a Republican president and congress that he was going to lose the right to marry his best friend and boyfriend of 5 years. I mean, it was a part of the party's platform, so why wouldn't he be scared of that outcome? Or mad about it? Since Trump's 60 Minute interview, I've seen a few fewer posts of the apocalyptic variety which seems to suggest that some of these fears have been alleviated. But with all the media coverage of KKK parades, students chanting "build the wall", vandalized property bearing racial slurs and the word "Trump"...I get the fear. I get the emotions.

 

I know that not all Trump supporters are racist, homophobic, sexist bigots. But some of them are, and if there's even the slightest chance that they feel vindicated or mobilized or encouraged and free to exact that racism/homophobia/sexism on others then there's cause to be fearful.

 

In the interest of not furthering our country's divide, I'm not one to judge people for handling their fear and emotions in whichever way they feel is necessary, but I do not condone (nor will I tolerate on Nightly) personally attacking people for their beliefs, their fears, or their reactions. There's so much hate being thrown around right now. Let's not contribute, ok? I believe there's a great MLK quote for this.

[Guest]

Okay, I'm done.

 

Keep it real.

[Cerina]

That's not even remotely close to what I said. I don't support ***holes of any variety. But being fearful or angry doesn't equate to being an ***hole. Not for everyone at least.

 

And my cousin is actually a very well-educated and intelligent man. His fear stemmed mostly from Republicans controlling congress, not just the White House. He's not a fan of Trump, by any means, but "looking into" anything Trump says isn't going to change the views of everyone else that was just elected.

 

Honestly, it sounds like you're sticking your fingers in your ears on this as well. You seem to really want to see ***hole behavior in everyone who expresses any negative thoughts or emotions about the election no matter how calmly or rationally they explain their position. And I'm specifically talking about Driver and myself here. MG's irrational and emotional outburst was completely uncalled for as well.

 

Sorry if it offends your sense of ... whatever this is, but my stance is effectively choosing empathy over shaming, bullying, name-calling, and anything else fueled by hate, and since it's only been a week, I'm not ready to call people out for not taking action (yet). I'm more than positive that ALL of this nonsense is going to calm down in the coming weeks.

 

But when I said

but I do not condone (nor will I tolerate on Nightly) personally attacking people for their beliefs, their fears, or their reactions

I meant from both sides. All sides actually.

[Guest El Chalupacabra]

For what its worth, if there was a march that was about more than throwing a fit, I'd be right there. I just don't see any leadership really helping to define why they're marching.

 

You mean, like the Native Americans getting beat up by the police over a peaceful protest against a leaky oil pipeline which was covered up and tried to be rushed through by DAPL in order to run through their reservation, Standing Rock, ND? The one that even the Army Corps of Engineers acknowledges needs serious review and should be halted? This is the same pipeline Trump supports.

 

I can see people marching over that, and I can understand people marching against Trump because of that, too. At least they are marching over something tangible they can point to, and have (in my view) a valid reason to protest. You might not personally agree with them, but at least it is an actual reason, beyond "Trump sucks."

[Guest]

 

For what its worth, if there was a march that was about more than throwing a fit, I'd be right there. I just don't see any leadership really helping to define why they're marching.

 

You mean, like the Native Americans getting beat up by the police over a peaceful protest against a leaky oil pipeline which was covered up and tried to be rushed through by DAPL in order to run through their reservation, Standing Rock, ND? The one that even the Army Corps of Engineers acknowledges needs serious review and should be halted? This is the same pipeline Trump supports.

 

I can see people marching over that, and I can understand people marching against Trump because of that, too. At least they are marching over something tangible they can point to, and have (in my view) a valid reason to protest. You might not personally agree with them, but at least it is an actual reason, beyond "Trump sucks."

Yes, but I'm not in an area where those where those are the protests. The protests around here are generally just sad college students being sad.

[The Kurgan]

I think that's a little extreme and harsh to say.

 

Let's look back and see who is making fun of the crying--

 

Kurgan-- white guy

Marc-- white guy

Carrie-- a complex AI in female human form

Justus- white guy

Fozzie - white guy

 

I haven't responded to it-- but I keep going back an re-reading Carrie's statement to me about how I'll benefit a bit from a Trump presidency-- and she's right. I live in liberal land where the Mayor of LA and the Governor have already come out said they will enforce no fascist Presidential orders and my Senator just submitted a bill to ban the electoral college. I make enough that I'll greatly benefit from Trumps tax cut even if he ditches the Head of Household single parent deduction. Unless the secret police catch me making out with a drag queen, I'm pretty much safe. My kid is safe. I'm not being marginalized.

 

That's kinda the definition of privilege.

 

I think it's important to look at things like this and ask ourselves what could have been done differently so that there would have been a different result. Because, and I frankly don't give a toss what anyone says about muh white male privilege - the outcome of this election was a f**king disaster. For all kinds of people. Not just gays. Not just blacks. Not just Latinos. Not just Muslims. Not just women. Not just LGBT people. Not just the poor. Not just the working class. Not just the middle class. Not just anybody who makes less than 500K/year. All kinds of people.

 

When I look at the paragraph I just wrote, it occurs to me that a LOT of people would be vastly better off without a GOP presidency than with one. More people than for whom the reverse would be true. So my question is: how did we get here.

 

We got here when the working class white males were smugly dismissed with "angry dudes" and "privilege." When an unemployed father in the rust belt was lectured for his "privilege" by a f**king 150K/year tenured black woman's studies professor in some s**ty rag like the HuffPost.

We got here when BLM types attacked "white feminism" or crashed Gay Pride Parades, making other people's struggles all about them and bandying about accusations of "racism" and "privilege" for no other reason than that they know damn well it shames and silences people. Or it used to.

We got here when our news-feeds were innundated with crap like "Cis/het black males are the white people of black people"

We got here when halloween costumes became "Cultural Appropriation" and equated with slavery and genocide.

We got here when compliments and civil greetings of women by men became stalking, harassment and rape culture.

We got here when supporters of a presidential candidate who would have given the entire country universal health care, free college and a $15 minimum wage, if he could, were smugly dismissed as "Bernie Bro's" because they felt that real tangible economic benefits that would really help the most vulnerable were better things to base a voting decision on than some feminist blogger's vagina or African ancestors.

We got here when we were asked to ignore Clinton's abyssmal record of supporting regressive neoliberal legislation going all the way back to her husband's presidency.

 

None of the above are solid reasons for voting for Donald Trump. But they are valid reasons for NOT voting for Democrats either.

 

 

Now obviously, I'm not the cry-in type. But I'm also not the one being marginalized. My partner is a pretty big Hillary supporter, both vocally and financially, and she's scared. She's scared about women's rights. Minorities are scared. Gay people are scared.

 

 

I hope the hysteria turns out to have been unwarranted and Trump turns out to be more of a Nixonian moderate than /pol/ on 4chan in the White House. I am sorry about your partner, Driver, and I hope that women's rights, minority rights and gay rights come out of this unscathed. I don't mean to pick a fight with you, Driver, or anyone, and I wish harm on none.

 

Problem is, plenty of harm was wished on me. Not by any of you personally, but by those who dismissed any disagreement with them as "angry white dudes", "privilege", "white/mansplaining" , "#killallwhitemen", etc. Now I know full well that none of the above have any actual teeth and pale in comparison to real oppression suffered by people of differing identities over the years. But then again, trigger warnings, safe spaces, misgendering and microaggressions also pale in comparison to real oppression suffered by the same too. The problem was the smugness, the double standards, the glaring lack of self awareness, the hypocrisy, the arrogance and the entitlement masquerading as social justice - a bastardization of language that would make George Orwell cringe were he alive to see it. It's about recognizing your need for allies, and treating those allies with respect instead of spitting in their faces all the time because "privilege" or because "old white dudes."

 

Come 2020, we'll be much more likely to get different results if the attitude is SOLIDARITY instead of "check your privilege." If the attitude is "an injury to one is an injury to all" instead of "I drink white male tears." What a farce! You're all going to learn the hard way that the people who drink white male tears do so out of crystal goblets. They're on Wall Street. In the Pentagon. In the State Department. In the offices of defense industry lobbyists. They're not on tumblr or buzzfeed. And they drink white female tears too. And black tears. And gay tears. And the drinking's looking to be pretty good for the next four years.

 

If you want to make the left great again, come check out places like this, view videos like

and read articles like this. Just for examples. There's hundreds more like them. But until then ...

 

On Nov. 8, 2016, the SJWs of America had their Red Wedding. And guess what? THE BERNIE BRO'S SEND THEIR REGARDS!

 

 

[Guest El Chalupacabra]

 

 

For what its worth, if there was a march that was about more than throwing a fit, I'd be right there. I just don't see any leadership really helping to define why they're marching.

 

You mean, like the Native Americans getting beat up by the police over a peaceful protest against a leaky oil pipeline which was covered up and tried to be rushed through by DAPL in order to run through their reservation, Standing Rock, ND? The one that even the Army Corps of Engineers acknowledges needs serious review and should be halted? This is the same pipeline Trump supports.

 

I can see people marching over that, and I can understand people marching against Trump because of that, too. At least they are marching over something tangible they can point to, and have (in my view) a valid reason to protest. You might not personally agree with them, but at least it is an actual reason, beyond "Trump sucks."

Yes, but I'm not in an area where those where those are the protests. The protests around here are generally just sad college students being sad.

 

I'm just using that as an example of actually protesting something beyond "being sad."

[Driver]

 

I think that's a little extreme and harsh to say.

 

Let's look back and see who is making fun of the crying--

 

Kurgan-- white guy

Marc-- white guy

Carrie-- a complex AI in female human form

Justus- white guy

Fozzie - white guy

 

I haven't responded to it-- but I keep going back an re-reading Carrie's statement to me about how I'll benefit a bit from a Trump presidency-- and she's right. I live in liberal land where the Mayor of LA and the Governor have already come out said they will enforce no fascist Presidential orders and my Senator just submitted a bill to ban the electoral college. I make enough that I'll greatly benefit from Trumps tax cut even if he ditches the Head of Household single parent deduction. Unless the secret police catch me making out with a drag queen, I'm pretty much safe. My kid is safe. I'm not being marginalized.

 

That's kinda the definition of privilege.

 

I think it's important to look at things like this and ask ourselves what could have been done differently so that there would have been a different result. Because, and I frankly don't give a toss what anyone says about muh white male privilege - the outcome of this election was a f**king disaster. For all kinds of people. Not just gays. Not just blacks. Not just Latinos. Not just Muslims. Not just women. Not just LGBT people. Not just the poor. Not just the working class. Not just the middle class. Not just anybody who makes less than 500K/year. All kinds of people.

 

When I look at the paragraph I just wrote, it occurs to me that a LOT of people would be vastly better off without a GOP presidency than with one. More people than for whom the reverse would be true. So my question is: how did we get here.

 

We got here when the working class white males were smugly dismissed with "angry dudes" and "privilege." When an unemployed father in the rust belt was lectured for his "privilege" by a f**king 150K/year tenured black woman's studies professor in some s**ty rag like the HuffPost.

We got here when BLM types attacked "white feminism" or crashed Gay Pride Parades, making other people's struggles all about them and bandying about accusations of "racism" and "privilege" for no other reason than that they know damn well it shames and silences people. Or it used to.

We got here when our news-feeds were innundated with crap like "Cis/het black males are the white people of black people"

We got here when halloween costumes became "Cultural Appropriation" and equated with slavery and genocide.

We got here when compliments and civil greetings of women by men became stalking, harassment and rape culture.

We got here when supporters of a presidential candidate who would have given the entire country universal health care, free college and a $15 minimum wage, if he could, were smugly dismissed as "Bernie Bro's" because they felt that real tangible economic benefits that would really help the most vulnerable were better things to base a voting decision on than some feminist blogger's vagina or African ancestors.

We got here when we were asked to ignore Clinton's abyssmal record of supporting regressive neoliberal legislation going all the way back to her husband's presidency.

 

None of the above are solid reasons for voting for Donald Trump. But they are valid reasons for NOT voting for Democrats either.

 

 

Now obviously, I'm not the cry-in type. But I'm also not the one being marginalized. My partner is a pretty big Hillary supporter, both vocally and financially, and she's scared. She's scared about women's rights. Minorities are scared. Gay people are scared.

 

 

I hope the hysteria turns out to have been unwarranted and Trump turns out to be more of a Nixonian moderate than /pol/ on 4chan in the White House. I am sorry about your partner, Driver, and I hope that women's rights, minority rights and gay rights come out of this unscathed. I don't mean to pick a fight with you, Driver, or anyone, and I wish harm on none.

 

Problem is, plenty of harm was wished on me. Not by any of you personally, but by those who dismissed any disagreement with them as "angry white dudes", "privilege", "white/mansplaining" , "#killallwhitemen", etc. Now I know full well that none of the above have any actual teeth and pale in comparison to real oppression suffered by people of differing identities over the years. But then again, trigger warnings, safe spaces, misgendering and microaggressions also pale in comparison to real oppression suffered by the same too. The problem was the smugness, the double standards, the glaring lack of self awareness, the hypocrisy, the arrogance and the entitlement masquerading as social justice - a bastardization of language that would make George Orwell cringe were he alive to see it. It's about recognizing your need for allies, and treating those allies with respect instead of spitting in their faces all the time because "privilege" or because "old white dudes."

 

Come 2020, we'll be much more likely to get different results if the attitude is SOLIDARITY instead of "check your privilege." If the attitude is "an injury to one is an injury to all" instead of "I drink white male tears." What a farce! You're all going to learn the hard way that the people who drink white male tears do so out of crystal goblets. They're on Wall Street. In the Pentagon. In the State Department. In the offices of defense industry lobbyists. They're not on tumblr or buzzfeed. And they drink white female tears too. And black tears. And gay tears. And the drinking's looking to be pretty good for the next four years.

 

If you want to make the left great again, come check out places like this, view videos like

and read articles like this. Just for examples. There's hundreds more like them. But until then ...

 

On Nov. 8, 2016, the SJWs of America had their Red Wedding. And guess what? THE BERNIE BRO'S SEND THEIR REGARDS!

 

 

I was with you for the first half... but then you went somewhere I wasn't down with...

[Guest El Chalupacabra]

 

 

I hope the hysteria turns out to have been unwarranted and Trump turns out to be more of a Nixonian moderate than /pol/ on 4chan in the White House. I am sorry about your partner, Driver, and I hope that women's rights, minority rights and gay rights come out of this unscathed. I don't mean to pick a fight with you, Driver, or anyone, and I wish harm on none.

Well, so far, Trump has tapped Steve Bannon, who is alt right, and has been called racist, white-nationalist, and anti-Jewish as his chief strategist. One could almost overlook that as ant-Trump propaganda, except for the fact Trump has now tapped Jeff Sessions, also a known racist (he once said the only reason he was against the KKK is that they smoke marijuana, but they are otherwise okay), anti-immigration supporter, and climate change denier.

 

So, yes, judging by his cabinet selections thus far, it appears Trump may indeed be Nixon-like. But considering Nixon having been caught on his own tapes making racist rants, and there's been former aides and other evidence that shows his war on drugs were more about going after hippies and black people than the actual drugs, Trump is not Nixonian in a good way!