2016 U.S. General Election

[Poe Dameron]

 

 

But that's kind of neat right? More people voted this time for this particular election than say the last 4 presidential elections.

 

The country gets about 10 million people bigger every election. It's only surprising when an election doesn't break the all-time record. Something would need to seriously go wrong for the winning candidate to dip below Bill Clinton's totals 20 years and 60 million people later.

[Justus]

...and this is one of the reasons Trump won...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbjfRypEEYw

 

The self-importance of the ever-so "enlightened" entertainment set. They always know what's best for you.

[Guest]

How do they reconcile wanting to do away with the Electoral College, arguing that it is racist and only exists because of slavery and also claiming that it was created by benevolent geniuses protecting the people?

[Poe Dameron]

They're completely right. A person like Trump is exactly why the electoral college was created. Of course, the electoral college completely fell apart almost as soon as the party systems, and most of the state legislatures selected the electors in the first few elections anyway.

 

Hamilton would very much approve I believe. Hamilton pulled whatever lever of power he could find and was not above shenanigans and loophole exploitation to get what he wanted. In 1796 he didn't like Adams, so he tried to manipulate the South Carolina vote so that they would vote for Jefferson and Pinckney. Essentially, he wanted to have an election surprise where the intended vice-president came out on top (remember, back then the vice-president was the one who came in second). It blew up in all their faces when Pinckney lost support in the north and got fewer electoral votes than Jefferson, who became vice-president.

 

And, of course, Hamilton inserted himself into the election of 1800 because he didn't think that Burr had the character to be president (a decision that eventually led to Hamilton's death).

 

That being said, yeah, yeah, they're complete hypocrites. Amazing how liberals always find fealty to the Constitution only when it serves them. Now that they don't have the presidency, suddenly checks and balances are all in vogue and the president doesn't have the power to do things "Because Congress failed to act". Their message is 100% correct. The messengers are delusional if they think a bunch of self-serving celebrities who hate them will move this 306 men and women a single inch.

 

But if they have a conscience, yeah... they shouldn't vote for Trump. It's not even a difficult choice. If they don't use this last line of defense that the Founders gave us to save us (at least temporarily as the House would no doubt hand it right back to him) from someone whose character is as low as Trump's then it really is just a vestigial and ceremonial relic.

[Poe Dameron]

I chuckle at Michelle Obama's lament about living without hope.

 

They really don't get it. The reason they lost was because they took away hope. They bypassed the people time and again and attempted to implement what they wanted in a way beyond the voters' ability to change either through the courts or through bureaucracies. Obama ignored the results of the elections that went against him in 2010 and 2016. They have a policy of putting judges on the bench that will take away the people's ability govern themselves. And they laughed at a good chunk of the country (many of which voted for her husband), telling them through 8 full years how impotent they were and how they were being replaced by Latinos at the ballot box. They just pushed anyone that didn't think like them against the wall up to and including the media's complicity in helping Trump dominate the coverage of the Republican primary, forcing even more desperation.

 

Yes, you can see how disruptive it is to take away hope from people. But you do not take responsibility for your actions that led to this, and you do not LEARN.

[Driver]

Your absolute hatred for democrats often pollutes your logical posts. I find myself agreeing with you until your rhetoric and bias come in... and it's so over the top the logic turns to crazy guy with a sign on a corner.

[Poe Dameron]

Really? What's crazy about the notion that President Trump is the result of a block of voters with a serious dearth of hope?

 

I mean, I can understand dismissing what I have to say in a world where Trump didn't happen. But... well look. It sure as hell isn't the result of a happy electorate secure in their lives and happy with their government. I can also point to Republicans elected officials that regularly attacked their own voters. They also took away hope by making them feel that no one was representing them. I've said many times that Trump was the result of a primal scream among voters.

 

Or are you denying that the Democrats haven't been pushing through their agendas via means other than the legitimate legislative powers of government? Because Democrats have been rather open about their desire to do that.

[Driver]

Even though I lean heavily liberal, I still like to think I'm centrist enough with judgement calls. I don't think the democratic party is all roses by any means. I think there is corruption and agendas on BOTH sides and I think the vast majority of countries problem is us being forced to choose between two sides.

 

So when you point out conservative notions that make sense I want to agree with you.

 

But just as both parties have bad sides, I think there is also merit in both of them. When you talk about democrats you make it personal every time. It's never evidence and result. It;s THESE TERRIBLE CORRUPT EVIL PEOPLE.

 

And the part of me that does lean toward the social liberal ideals (like civil rights for example) hears this, I shut down and instead of hearing your argument, I just think you're the guy that wants to put gay people in jail and make black people be quiet.

 

I guess it's debatable if that is my problem or yours-- but I personally struggle with trying to deliver what I believe in without propping up a republican star enemy to do it. I don't know that I am any more successful than you-- I'm just saying this is what makes it hard for me to want to listen to what you say on these topics.

[Poe Dameron]

I think I'm being consistent in applying the same standards to my side. Am I not criticizing Trump for exactly the same behavior? Because I'll say right now that Michelle Obama isn't wrong about it being terrible that Trump has cut off hope for a lot of people. He most certainly has. What I'm saying is that she and her husband are the equal and opposite of Trump. Damn them both for exploiting and expanding race-based tribalism within the United States.

 

Believe me, I'd much rather focus on persuading each other based on merits of policy and not having 75% of citizens entering the voting booth with their identity the first thing on their mind as they vote. I don't want anyone anywhere to live such a small life.

 

Now, the tactics of Democrats is something I will tee off on constantly. Their insistence on removing democratic process from big decisions, particularly social, is repugnant. I don’t say that they’re evil for having judges snap away the right of people to govern themselves via their elected officials. I’m not saying that they’re evil for ignoring laws that they don’t like. I’m saying they’re shortsighted in their self-perceived moral superiority.

 

Personally, I’ve been in favor of gay marriage since before the tide turned. But I recognized that those who disagreed with me need to be allowed to have their say. Just because I believed that I was right did not mean that I could just steamroll them and say, “I win, you lose. Shut up and never speak of this again.”

 

You may get your way if you do that. Indeed, it’s unlikely gay marriage will ever be a significant issue ever again now. But by making up a new “right” you’ve taken AWAY an even more profound right. The right of the people to govern themselves. And while the left pat each other on the back, the feeling of hopelessness grows. Not only did the traditional marriage side, which still made up half the country at the moment it was decided by Kennedy and the Supreme Court, lose, but, in the end, they were told that they didn’t have a say in the matter. That five robed figures would find a right that doesn’t exist (four of whom don’t believe the 2nd Amendment is a real thing), and that’s the end of that. It’s beyond even the ability of people to make the argument anymore.

 

The Obama administration’s been doing the same when it comes to social policy via executive fiat. Birth control mandates despite religious objections. Transgender policies that sought to force all states to recognize pseudoscience that will seem odd in a couple decades once the political heat around it dies down. Just a couple days ago, the Obama administration set in motion rules to prevent states from defunding Planned Parenthood.

 

Moving on to ignoring laws that Democrats don’t like marijuana laws or immigration laws. Obama literally handed illegal aliens papers that legalized them when the law says he should have begun deportation.

 

Now, as a socially liberal person I’m sure you are okay with all those things. Which is fine as far as policy goes. But the process is very important. The process is critical. How would you feel if you lived in a world where conservative judges wrote social policy from the bench? Who declared that abortion was illegal in all cases (it’s actually a more compelling case that the 14th Amendment protects the unborn than orders the government to ignore their death), who invalidated state laws granting gay marriage based on their own squinting and torturing the text to get the results they wanted, who ignored the Amendments they didn’t like?

 

How would you like a Trump administration that doesn’t like the estate tax, so they don’t enforce it? How about the Voting Rights Act? The Americans With Disabilities Act? An administration that uses the bureaucracy to enforce social policies instead of letting localities handle it themselves?

 

It’s very easy to be on the side of right when you feel comfortable breaking the law and confident the other side won’t do the same. But now we have a guy in the White House who just doesn’t give a crap about procedures and such like previous Republicans. He’s a results guy and he’ll do what he can get away with in order to achieve those results and has vicious silencing followers behind him. Isn’t that scary to you? Well, welcome to how conservatives have lived for a long time. It’s wrong, and we should return to our normal “broken” form of government which often doesn’t move as quickly as we’d like, but is a hell of a lot better than letting loose and having the person who wins a few more votes every four years do whatever the hell they want.

 

That’s why I rail against liberals. Not because they’re evil. But because, even at this late hour of danger, they still haven’t learned this lesson:

 

[Ms. Spam]

Tomorrow the electoral college is to vote!

[Guest]

Hooray!

 

Tomorrow may be the happiest day of the year. The marathon is over.

[Tex]

The thing is with all politicians is that they don't really give a shit about people. The Dems don't care about blacks, gays, Muslims, or Latinos, and the Rebs don't care about family values, the middle class, old people, KKK types, etc. It's all about votes. Sometimes I feel sorry for Dems because Trump buried both sides along the way and it was so fun to watch. I've never liked that guy, and I still don't , but there was something awesome about watching a reality TV guy troll these people, be it Jeb, Cruz, Hillary, whoever.

 

What's great about this election is that the Dems now realize that their message to voters no longer sells. They fucked up. They need to change their tune. Their overall point is valid but guilting/shaming people only gets you so far. I vividly remember how Bill Clinton charmed America back in 92. Even I voted for him. They need to get back to that.

 

Ultimately all of this is about wealth. The have nots will always be unhappy with the incumbent and vote the other way. Voters are given the illusion of choice simply to avoid civil war. Lighting up Twitter/Facebook/Internet is much better than a war that leads to a ton of dead bodies. Sometimes people just need a pacifier.

 

What's truly great about this country is that none of these people get to keep their jobs if they suck at it. If Trump lays an egg he'll be gone in 2020. If he makes a difference he'll be an 8 year guy. Life, somehow, will go on.

[Carrie Mathison]

Poe's got a point. I spent the better part of the last 8 years arguing to Democrats that maybe they oughta think twice about dismantling some of the protections that exist.. just getting rid of the filibuster, inventing new rights by the Court, choosing to not enforce certain laws they didn't like... because, what about the precedent that you're setting when a Republican comes to power?

 

Of course the answer I got was always either the blank stare, mouth open like a retard, or... even better, the "LOL the Republicans are never going to win again, are you stupid?"

 

And gee, look where we are. The chickens have come home to roost. And my god, I couldn't be happier. The Dems will be pretty much unable to block any of Trump's appointees (thanks for getting rid of the filibuster guys!), so we can look forward to people who want to dismantle the EPA, Obamacare, the Energy Dept, and go back to enforcing immigration and even federal marijuana laws. Trump will be able to get through at least 1, maybe even 2 or 3 justices, and since the last Court has shown us that inventing rights out of thin air is perfectly OK, I'm particularly hopeful that the new Trump Court goes completely buckwild and invents lots of great new stuff that drives liberals nuts for decades. You know, the country was moving towards gay marriage anyways, it was quickly becoming legal in most states, but hey- you had to have it nation-wide right now (said in tone of 5 year old kid stomping his feet), so hey- Court decrees it is!

 

Which is great because now that liberals have opened the door to legislating from the bench, I'm looking forward to all sorts of things that can be done and we don't even need to get it through Congress, we can just make up whatever sh-t we want in the Court. One thing right off the top of my head- we could use a Court decree that birthright citizenship is now abolished. Most of the world doesn't have it (including most of Europe), so really we can just do away with it. Yeah, it may require a somewhat creative interpretation of the Constitution, but since the text of the Constitution apparently no longer really means anything, I don't see why that should be a big deal.

 

Oh and don't even get me started on the precedent set in the Obama years that the Executive Branch can just stop enforcing certain laws if they feel like it. Because goodness, I can think of probably a dozen laws that I've never really liked, so I'm looking forward to Trump not enforcing any of them.

 

Trump winning was amazing enough, but now thanks to Dems and the precedents they have set, Trump can pretty much do whatever he wants! Thanks Democrats! It's gonna be a great 4 years, I can't wait.

[The Kurgan]

What's great about this election is that the Dems now realize that their message to voters no longer sells. They ****ed up. They need to change their tune. Their overall point is valid but guilting/shaming people only gets you so far. I vividly remember how Bill Clinton charmed America back in 92. Even I voted for him. They need to get back to that.

 

That'd have been nice. But really - I follow this stuff pretty faithfully on social media. Progressive democrat types have chosen to respond to their defeat in the following ways:

 

• Blame wikileaks.
• Blame the Russians.
• Blame James Comey.
• Blame 3rd party candidates like Jill Stein.
• Blame the "Bernie Bro's"
• Blame the white women who didn't vote their vaginas.
• Blame racists.
• Blame Islamophobes.
• Blame the electoral college.
• Blame misogyny.
• Blame the media.
• Blame fake news.
• Blame voter suppression.
• Blame everybody and everything except themselves.
• Double down on identity politics.
• Double down on soulless neo-liberalism.
• Conclude that inadequate fundraising was the problem.
• Refuse to consider progressive stances on economic issues, and shout "brocialist" at anyone who does (it never gets old, believe me)
• Refuse to think about appealing to rust belt working class voters in any way.
• Defriend people who voted for Trump - to the point of ending marriages, severing business ties, etc.
• Act like condescending, arrogant douches on social media - call all Trump voters racist, refuse to understand issues, etc.
• Conclude that the surest way to win popular support for themselves and their causes is to accuse anyone who disagrees with you of fostering white privilege and rape culture.
• Stage "cry ins" and demand safe spaces on college campuses, despite such conduct rendering progressives the laughing stock of the nation.
• Demonstrate their true faith in and understanding of democracy through riots and "not my president" demonstrations.
• Vain and empty displays of shallow piety - black Facebook profile pics, safety pins, etc.

The best hope for the democrats is that the cletus bloc is going to run things into the ground with their evangelical idiocy that the SJWs will start looking good in comparison. Basically what happened in 2012.

 

Welcome to the future you chose, America.

[Driver]

Somebody in my FB suggested that liberals need an Alt Left movement to double down on things and I realized that's what's already happened and it imploded.

[Good God a Bear]

I wish we could somehow take everyone in the Alt Left and everyone in the Alt Right and place them in a giant arena like the Hunger Games and let them take each other out rather than drag the rest of us down.

[Ms. Spam]

Yesterday I was invited to go to Austin to protest during the roll call electoral vote. I declined.

[The Kurgan]

Depends what "alt left" you're talking about. There are many, as it turns out.

[Carrie Mathison]

Somebody in my FB suggested that liberals need an Alt Left movement to double down on things and I realized that's what's already happened and it imploded.

 

 

There's already an Alt-Left movement.

 

But I suspect your FB friend probably wouldn't be a huge fan of it... unless.. is this person a Sanders supporter (or likes politicians like Tulsi Gabbard)?

[Guest]

My first thought, for an alt-left that stands in opposition to the alt-right, that's just Tumblr.

[Justus]

 

What's great about this election is that the Dems now realize that their message to voters no longer sells. They ****ed up. They need to change their tune. Their overall point is valid but guilting/shaming people only gets you so far. I vividly remember how Bill Clinton charmed America back in 92. Even I voted for him. They need to get back to that.

 

That'd have been nice. But really - I follow this stuff pretty faithfully on social media. Progressive democrat types have chosen to respond to their defeat in the following ways:

 

• Blame wikileaks.
• Blame the Russians.
• Blame James Comey.
• Blame 3rd party candidates like Jill Stein.
• Blame the "Bernie Bro's"
• Blame the white women who didn't vote their vaginas.
• Blame racists.
• Blame Islamophobes.
• Blame the electoral college.
• Blame misogyny.
• Blame the media.
• Blame fake news.
• Blame voter suppression.
• Blame everybody and everything except themselves.
• Double down on identity politics.
• Double down on soulless neo-liberalism.
• Conclude that inadequate fundraising was the problem.
• Refuse to consider progressive stances on economic issues, and shout "brocialist" at anyone who does (it never gets old, believe me)
• Refuse to think about appealing to rust belt working class voters in any way.
• Defriend people who voted for Trump - to the point of ending marriages, severing business ties, etc.
• Act like condescending, arrogant douches on social media - call all Trump voters racist, refuse to understand issues, etc.
• Conclude that the surest way to win popular support for themselves and their causes is to accuse anyone who disagrees with you of fostering white privilege and rape culture.
• Stage "cry ins" and demand safe spaces on college campuses, despite such conduct rendering progressives the laughing stock of the nation.
• Demonstrate their true faith in and understanding of democracy through riots and "not my president" demonstrations.
• Vain and empty displays of shallow piety - black Facebook profile pics, safety pins, etc.

The best hope for the democrats is that the cletus bloc is going to run things into the ground with their evangelical idiocy that the SJWs will start looking good in comparison. Basically what happened in 2012.

 

Welcome to the future you chose, America.

 

Correct down the line, but you cannot forget one that was screamed often every moment since election night:

 

• Blame Trump voters for being pro-life, because they bet on the flip-flopping Trump will flip to a pro-life nominee to the Supreme Court.
• Though the left--in their incredibly self-defeating manner would not see or admit it--took a page out of the Nathan Bedford Forrest playbook, labeling religious African Americans (and now in this age, Latinos) as "superstitious"--but the left built on that to mean: unenlightened Jesus-following savages needing their "help" to "evolve" for believing anything that opposes all things LGBT--the modern left's number one obsession.
• Blame males for being male...through the lens of fringe, agenda-driven psychobabble concluding males are inherently barbaric, potential rapists from the moment they're born.

..and yes, as you point out, the left's plan to fight back...is all double-down, if not go beyond the fringe they currently occupy. Hypocritical for a group using inclusiveness as part of their sales pitch.