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2016 U.S. General Election


Pong Messiah
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Interesting about the FBI letting Clinton off the hook again. I'm genuinely not sure who this helps more. Clinton gets positive news coverage, but it reinforces Trump's "fixed" notion and might send potential Clinton voters back into complacency.

 

Part of it will be how Trump responds.

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Somebody explain to me how the Clinton email stuff is something people cling to as a big deal and say it makes her unworthy vs. the veritable shit ton of legal crap Trump has going on.

 

At this point I equate email scandal criers too AMA birth certificate truthers and members of the flat Earth society.

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Somebody explain to me how the Clinton email stuff is something people cling to as a big deal and say it makes her unworthy vs. the veritable shit ton of legal crap Trump has going on.

 

At this point I equate email scandal criers to Obama birth certificate truthers and members of the flat Earth society.

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Yeah, some lady at Church said Hillary should be in jail. I asked for what specific reason. No real answer. What crime did Bill and Hillary do? Because I think a lot is baggage from Bill's years as president. Nothing more than people clinging to perceived grudges. I asked her what Christian values represent Trump and got thrown out a lot of man plus woman equal marriage stuff and abortion is murder but really that would not be Trump's position.

 

On the bright side I haven't heard Benghazi in a while!

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Guest El Chalupacabra

Somebody explain to me how the Clinton email stuff is something people cling to as a big deal and say it makes her unworthy vs. the veritable **** ton of legal crap Trump has going on.

 

At this point I equate email scandal criers too AMA birth certificate truthers and members of the flat Earth society.

Well the email scandal really should be a big deal, but it has several things going against the public giving a crap:

 

1. it is techie stuff that the average person doesn't know or care to know about. So, they tune it out.

2. It's debatable whether the FBI can't in fact find proof to the level that would warrant an indictment, or if strings are being pulled ( I say both), but the official FBI position is what it is, and that won't change, as I predicted

3. most importantly, the raving maniacs that is Trump and his supporters tainted that case long ago, so most people don't care.

 

Now as someone who used to be in the military with a clearance and as someone who works around technology and sensitive info, including email support, now, I can say in my opinion it should have been a big deal. I was a low-level peon, and no longer work with classified military stuff now, and this was over 20 years ago to be sure, but I did work in SCIFs. I jumped through all kinds of hoops (and even had government people come out to talk to neighbors of neighbors and acquaintances of friends I never even listed) to get a clearance, and I spent hours upon hours in training sessions telling us what to do, and not do, and how to handle classified material. So, based on what I have heard about this case, I believe on even basic levels Clinton effed up (more properly, she knew what she was doing, but just felt the rules didn't apply to her because they were inconvenient), and I know it is possible for her people to delete things the way it is claimed, to cover it up.

 

Even now, I work with people that work around FERPA and HIPAA stuff and bitch about having to log in to two different screens or having to VPN for this or that, or refuse to lock their PC when they go away for 5 minutes because it i inconvenient to log back in, or tape passwords in plain view on their monitor, when they handle sensitive stuff like social security numbers, etc. And these are low level administrators and deans who think they are too important to be inconvenienced by mundane security protocols.

 

I have been asked by some of them to set things up that are against regulation and had to refuse because if I did, I would lose my job. So I do buy the claims Hillary Clinton probably did all that she was accused of. That said, I am sure she is not the ONLY one doing it, either. Washington DC is full of people with as big, or bigger egos than Hillary Clinton, and I'd bet she is only the tip of the iceberg.

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Somebody explain to me how the Clinton email stuff is something people cling to as a big deal and say it makes her unworthy vs. the veritable **** ton of legal crap Trump has going on.

 

At this point I equate email scandal criers too AMA birth certificate truthers and members of the flat Earth society.

We are talking about potential felonies and endangering national security here. I totally get that next to the mountain of ethical charges Trump wallows in that it seems petty. But it's very much a serious charge that she damn well looks completely guilty of, not to mention highly shady stuff like the Attorney General meeting with Bill in secret right before the investigation cleared her. That most definitely should NEVER have happened.

 

In a normal election, it would very much be disqualifying. The only reason to give it a pass is because of Trump in the first place.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

 

Somebody explain to me how the Clinton email stuff is something people cling to as a big deal and say it makes her unworthy vs. the veritable **** ton of legal crap Trump has going on.

 

At this point I equate email scandal criers too AMA birth certificate truthers and members of the flat Earth society.

We are talking about potential felonies and endangering national security here. I totally get that next to the mountain of ethical charges Trump wallows in that it seems petty. But it's very much a serious charge that she damn well looks completely guilty of, not to mention highly shady stuff like the Attorney General meeting with Bill in secret right before the investigation cleared her. That most definitely should NEVER have happened.

 

In a normal election, it would very much be disqualifying. The only reason to give it a pass is because of Trump in the first place.

 

Gotta agree. Yet another thing Trump effed up for everyone. I could have added a 4th point in my post above:

 

4. People know Hillary is at the very least guilty of negligence, but they feel that Trump is so much a far more horrible choice, they don't care.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

I don't discount she was negligent, I just don't see how ppl cling to it and say this means Trump is more fit for a presidency. No one here is saying that, just looking at the crazy in the world.

I'm on the same page with you. You aren't wrong that the most vocal Trump supporters citing the email scandal are crazy. They hate Hillary. Period. They would cite any story that makes her look bad. It's just that this story actually has truth to it.

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Dudes, if Hillary is guilty of negligence it would be the actual governments fault. Hillary asked Collin Powell for any type of advice when she took over and he told her to not worry about how she communicated. She was upfront with Obama with things she wanted as Secretary of State. While I believe the level of secrecy in the US Government like the type Chalupa had to go through does happen to people who work in the DoD people who work at the State Department were on a plain of uncharted stupid. Colin Powell took over and was floored many of the people in the State Dept. didn't even have computers, simple desk top computers. Powell bought them computers to use and would try his best to upgrade to better technology. Collin Powell even used his own private server as well. It turns out that staff had to send emails to their own private emails so they could print documents because they had issues getting the office printers to print through their official emails. When they flew on government planes they had issues with being able to use the Air Force wi-fi because of the way that was setup.

 

If anything comes out of this I really believe Hillary has learned a valuable lesson which will be applied to anyone who is her Sec State. She's going to upgrade the way the State Dept operates so it's modern and secure.

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As horrible as Trump is he's not guilty of the kind of stuff that Hillary is. Bottom line is that she's unfit to be president and belongs in jail. Cracks me up every time people try to blow the email thing off like its no big deal.

 

If you want proof that the whole thing is rigged there you go.

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How is she unfit after over four decades of working in the government?

What does length of service have to do with the question of corruption? Would Nixon have been okay if he'd been in government 10 years longer?

 

I think it's very fair to say that neither of them is fit to hold the presidency. Frankly, I'd be happy if impeachment hearings started Wednesday morning no matter who wins. It's why I'm not voting for either of them and just see different forms of destruction no matter who wins.

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How is she unfit after over four decades of working in the government?

What does length of service have to do with the question of corruption? Would Nixon have been okay if he'd been in government 10 years longer?

Due to his length of service, I'm voting Tom DeLay

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As horrible as Trump is he's not guilty of the kind of stuff that Hillary is. Bottom line is that she's unfit to be president and belongs in jail. Cracks me up every time people try to blow the email thing off like its no big deal.

 

If you want proof that the whole thing is rigged there you go.

What exactly is Hillary guilty of?

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So, you guys-the e-mails. Good GAWD THE E-MAILS.

 

On a scale of 1-10, 10 being "lock her up" and 1 being "I don't GAF, not one"...

 

How important is the issue overall?

 

What if they find nothing compromising? Does that matter to you?

 

Tex, you said

Cracks me up every time people try to blow the email thing off like its no big deal.

 

 

 

If you want proof that the whole thing is rigged there you go.

 

Whesre do I go? Where is proof that 'the whole things is rigged"? And tell me exactly what you mean by 'rigged', please?

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Guest El Chalupacabra

Dudes, if Hillary is guilty of negligence it would be the actual governments fault. Hillary asked Collin Powell for any type of advice when she took over and he told her to not worry about how she communicated. She was upfront with Obama with things she wanted as Secretary of State. While I believe the level of secrecy in the US Government like the type Chalupa had to go through does happen to people who work in the DoD people who work at the State Department were on a plain of uncharted stupid. Colin Powell took over and was floored many of the people in the State Dept. didn't even have computers, simple desk top computers. Powell bought them computers to use and would try his best to upgrade to better technology. Collin Powell even used his own private server as well. It turns out that staff had to send emails to their own private emails so they could print documents because they had issues getting the office printers to print through their official emails. When they flew on government planes they had issues with being able to use the Air Force wi-fi because of the way that was setup.

 

If anything comes out of this I really believe Hillary has learned a valuable lesson which will be applied to anyone who is her Sec State. She's going to upgrade the way the State Dept operates so it's modern and secure.

Gotta disagre with you there. It's not the government's fault, it's her's, or at least she shares culpability. Maybe Hillary isn't the only one to blame, and the rest of her staff, and perhaps the Obama Administration itself shares that blame, but you have to remember this wasn't her first rodeo. She was a senator, and before that, while not elected, she was a First Lady that had all kinds of experience sitting in on briefings. She was the most active First Lady, probably since ever. Also, as has been cited, while she may have been the incoming Sec of State, if she is going to lay that at the feet of Colin Powell, that is a pure cop out. Just because he said that is what he did, doesn't necessarily make it a good idea, or right. Do I really have to ask what you would do if your friend jumped off a cliff, would you do it too, Spam? Remember how part of the reason Obama and Hillary were contenders in 2008, and part of their hook was because the Bush Administration was incompetent on a lot of levels? Makes no sense to then just replicate what had been done by the very people you criticized.

 

And by the way, when someone who is an elected government official is using their own server instead of a government server, that tells me they either are trying to circumvent policy because they feel it is more "convenient" and feel the rules don't apply to them, or they are actually trying to hide something and there is something nefarious going on there. I don't care if it is Colin Powell or Hillary Clinton. It shouldn't be taking place. And at the very least, that is unseemly for someone who was involved with taking down Nixon for illegal wire taps and recording people without their knowledge to then be breaking technology policies of their own.

 

Am I arguing that Hillary is less qualified than Trump? Hell no, but I've said all along I don't like either, and this is my reason for not liking Hillary Clinton.

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It's gotta be a tough pill to swallow for Hillary fans to admit that she's a total piece of shit. Trump is too, but he's not being investigated by the FBI.

 

Even if he was, though, I can't believe people tolerate Hillary Clinton. She's a deplorable human being. I would have much more respect for dems if they would just admit that they only support her because they hate Trump.

 

To ignore all of her obvious flaws just makes you look ****ing stupid.

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So, you guys-the e-mails. Good GAWD THE E-MAILS.

 

On a scale of 1-10, 10 being "lock her up" and 1 being "I don't GAF, not one"...

 

How important is the issue overall?

Important how? Like, important for the race?

 

If so, it was 'important,' but not decisive. Tightened the race from Clinton +7-8, down to +3-4 range. But not decisive- as I explained in this thread, the first debate was the decisive, turning point of the election. Sept 26 was the last day when I was genuinely unsure of the outcome of the race. As I said then, and still believe now, if the debate was a wash, Clinton would hold on to a narrow but steady lead through Oct. And that's basically what happened- the debate was somewhere between a wash and outright win for Clinton (Trump won the first 30 min but then went off the rails and let Clinton take it away), and as such, minus your standard fluctuations here and there depending on the news cycle, Clinton has maintained a narrow but consistent lead. It was at that moment that most undecideds either made up their mind, or began to make up their mind (even if they would continue to proclaim being "undecided" for a few weeks later).

 

At this point, I would say Trump only has about a 1 in 10 shot of winning, and that would require a perfect storm of decreased Hispanic turnout in FL, decreased Black turnout in NC, historic high white turnout in at least one of CO, PA, or MI, and a lot of late undecideds all breaking for Trump. One of those happening is not terribly unlikely, but all them happening at once is. It could happen, sure, but I don't put the odds at more than 1 in 10, or maybe 20% at best. 538 has it at almost 30%, which seems a little high to me, but not unreasonable either.

 

 

 

Or did you mean, is the issue important to me personally? Or important to how we should view Clinton as a candidate?

 

Because if so, that's something I have no interest in discussing. Everyone has already made up their mind on that.

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It's gotta be a tough pill to swallow for Hillary fans to admit that she's a total piece of ****. Trump is too, but he's not being investigated by the FBI.

 

Even if he was, though, I can't believe people tolerate Hillary Clinton. She's a deplorable human being. I would have much more respect for dems if they would just admit that they only support her because they hate Trump.

 

To ignore all of her obvious flaws just makes you look ****ing stupid.

I agree with 80% of her platform. I'm not stupid.

 

Do I think she gets a pass for doing some shady political shit? No-- but there is literally no politician that isn't shady in some way.

 

I'm always asking why Hilary is bad, and all I ever hear is OMG SHES JUST TERRIBLE CAUSE SHES SO UGH JUST THE WORST.

 

At least pretend to not be a conservative shill and throw out some legit disagreements with her policies or name a crime she's been convicted of.

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