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9th Circuit Court: Employee Tips Can't Be Taken and Redistributed By Businesses


Pong Messiah
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This is all I've read on the issue, and have no idea if it was a good and consistent decision from a legal standpoint or not, but I'm definitely happy with it:

Businesses cannot collect tips given to waiters, casino dealers or other service employees to share with support staff such as dishwashers even if the tipped employees are receiving minimum wage, a federal appeals court ruled Tuesday.

I totally understand how slim the margins are in many service industries, especially food... but if you can't keep your dishwashers for more than a few weeks, offer more money for the job, don't force other employees to subsidize each other's wages.

 

That said, if you don't (voluntarily) tip out your busboy or bartender at the end of the night, be ready for some messy tables and slooooow drinks your next shift!

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As a tangent topic: All people should be forced as a class in high school to be a server. You'll learn a lot and understand so much more.

 

A Spam story: I chased a group of old people out of Shoney's in GA in '92 because they left me a 50 cent tip on a 78$ bill for a group of 8 people. Cheap ***holes. I banged on the window of the guy who organized this festive old people trip to the Shoney's for early bird specials and talk about some Church thing who's group ran me ragged with things like "There is too much ice in my water!" or "Why is my piece of fish smaller than his?" or "My butter pat is too hard" out in the parking lot and asked for two more quarters to make my lousy ****ing tip a dollar even. The old dude pulled out and drove off and I threw those stupid quarters at his car while shooting the bird. Then promptly went in and quit.

 

Clearly I was made for management.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

This is all I've read on the issue, and have no idea if it was a good and consistent decision from a legal standpoint or not, but I'm definitely happy with it:

Businesses cannot collect tips given to waiters, casino dealers or other service employees to share with support staff such as dishwashers even if the tipped employees are receiving minimum wage, a federal appeals court ruled Tuesday.

I totally understand how slim the margins are in many service industries, especially food... but if you can't keep your dishwashers for more than a few weeks, offer more money for the job, don't force other employees to subsidize each other's wages.

 

That said, if you don't (voluntarily) tip out your busboy or bartender at the end of the night, be ready for some messy tables and slooooow drinks your next shift!

See I am not sure I agree with this. On one hand, I am sure there are many Starbucks employees who are feeling vindicated that Starbucks can no longer confiscate their tip jars. However, in most cases with restaurants or bars the waiter/waitress or bartender is the one bringing the food or drink and the "face" of the service, but they are only one part of that service. It is not fair that the waiter/waitress/bartender collects the tip, and can potentially keep it all for themselves, and cutting out the bus staff, the cooks, or other employees that make the job possible for the waiter/waitress/bartender. Someone has to make sure that those other employees get part of the tip. Now, apparently, it can't be the employer.

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Making servers share their tips with BOH employees is just a way for employers to avoid paying a reasonable hourly wage for what can be grueling work. I spent years working in restaurants; being a line cook ain't easy, and I can tell you right now that I wouldn't last 2 hours as a dishwasher. Like I said before, I understand margins are very slim in restaurants, so what I'd like to see ideally (FOH get tips for service, BOH split a small % of sales each paycheck on top of regular wages) is probably not feasible.

Someone has to make sure that those other employees get part of the tip. Now, apparently, it can't be the employer.

Oh, trust me. If you want your tables bussed in a timely fashion, if you want your drinks on time, if you don't want your entire section sat with teenagers and angry old women in a span of 5 minutes, you will absolutely tip your co-workers out.

 

Food service employees are notorious for doing disgusting things to customers they don't like, but they're like kittens on Quaaludes compared to how they can act toward one another. If a team starts thinking one of their members is stuck up, not pulling their weight, etc., that person won't last long.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

Making servers share their tips with BOH employees is just a way for employers to avoid paying a reasonable hourly wage for what can be grueling work. I spent years working in restaurants; being a line cook ain't easy, and I can tell you right now that I wouldn't last 2 hours as a dishwasher. Like I said before, I understand margins are very slim in restaurants, so what I'd like to see ideally (FOH get tips for service, BOH split a small % of sales each paycheck on top of regular wages) is probably not feasible.

I never have been in the food service industry so i have to defer to your experience and knowledge in this area. But it seems to me the whole point food service can be paid lower than minimum wage is because of tips. That's the devils bargain of the whole deal where the waiters/waitresses, bus employees, and cooks can potentially make well above minimum, counting tips. I am not discounting the fact there is a certain peer pressure built in for all involved to police themselves and make sure they share their tips with the others, without involving the employer, but knowing human nature as it is, I am sure there are always those who cheat others anyway. That's where an employer should be allowed to step in and straighten out the mess. I mean yeah, if everyone was making $15/hour, tips wouldn't even be necessary. But as a consumer I don't want to pay a $25+ a plate at the effing Applebee's, no matter how much I empathize with food servers' low wages.

 

The other thing to consider is this unintended consequence: what if restaurant owners don't want to jack around with tips anymore, start paying barest of minimum wage, declare no more tips and then start charging a gratuity that is then split among the employees. There is no law requiring tips, and employers can and do enforce policies where employees cannot accept them. So I see this is a potential outcome that effectively circumvents this judgement, and a net loss for workers in the food and drink industries.

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why would you ever eat at Applebee's anyway

I pulled off the freeway somewhere near Olympia recently, and saw a Chipotle and Applebee's. Normally woulda gone with the burrito, but this was during Chipotle's big e-coli scandal, so I had some bbq slider type things with fries at an Applebees... and believe it or not, they were fairly decent. Would I recommend Applebee's? No. But I wouldn't warn people away, either. Anywaaaays...

 

Some background info:

 

Historically, there is tension between FOH and BOH employees over compensation. At any decent restaurant, BOH makes more than minimum wage per hour, but during peak hours, FOH makes more overall, because they gets tips.

 

BOH often feels like they do the "real work," and in some ways this is true; their work is more repetitive and physically demanding, and in many cases, they need more specialized training. And they are more important: most cook can stand in as a server at a small buffet, most servers would just create chaos if they tried to work in the kitchen.

 

FOH deals with a lot more bull****, though. 95% of customers are cool, but the "not cool" 5% can range between unreasonable to straight up abusive, and literally mess with the rest of your day no matter how hard you try to ignore it. Skillwise and physically, FOH is easier work... emotionally, it's 1000% more exhausting.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

 

why would you ever eat at Applebee's anyway

I pulled off the freeway somewhere near Olympia recently, and saw a Chipotle and Applebee's. Normally woulda gone with the burrito, but this was during Chipotle's big e-coli scandal, so I had some bbq slider type things with fries at an Applebees... and believe it or not, they were fairly decent. Would I recommend Applebee's? No. But I wouldn't warn people away, either. Anywaaaays...

 

Some background info:

 

Historically, there is tension between FOH and BOH employees over compensation. At any decent restaurant, BOH makes more than minimum wage per hour, but during peak hours, FOH makes more overall, because they gets tips.

 

BOH often feels like they do the "real work," and in some ways this is true; their work is more repetitive and physically demanding, and in many cases, they need more specialized training. And they are more important: most cook can stand in as a server at a small buffet, most servers would just create chaos if they tried to work in the kitchen.

 

FOH deals with a lot more bull****, though. 95% of customers are cool, but the "not cool" 5% can range between unreasonable to straight up abusive, and literally mess with the rest of your day no matter how hard you try to ignore it. Skillwise and physically, FOH is easier work... emotionally, it's 1000% more exhausting.

 

Very good points. My brother is a former bartender (part time....teacher pay sucks), and actually met his wife who was a waitress at Beyonce's favorite restaurant (cuz she slay), Red Hell as they call it. Which if even a fraction of the things they say are true, it deserves to be called. So I have heard a lot of stories of ridiculous customers, plus I have worked a variety of customer service jobs (never food service), to get a taste of how people are, so I believe everything I heard from my brother and sister in law.

 

Anyway, you are absolutely correct that the FOH employees do have a very emotionally draining job. People are asshats, who love to take their frustration with their crap lives out on you, simply because you "serve" them. I always tip well at restaurants because of this, and am polite to food servers because I know it is a tough job. Even when the service is not that great, as long as there is no downright rudeness (only happened once), I still tip at least the minimum 15%. But when I tip, I am also do so with the assumption that the BOH are getting part of that tip. I am cool with maybe the FOH getting a larger share, because I acknowledge bad customers justify it, but I also think BOH work just as hard in their own way.

 

I mean even chilis is better and when chilis is better than anything, that's omg

Ha, now I don't know about that! Chilli's is owned by Darden, the same fantastic people who brought you Red Hell!

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You guys have seen that movie, right? I can't remember the name but it was about a restaurant.

 

Anywhooooooo...

 

I think the worst job in a restaurant is disher. You smell like gross soap and are constantly wet and if you suck at it people are constantly screaming at you for clean dishes/sliverware because restaurant owners are notoriously bad at ordering enough dishes/silverware to fill a rush hour day and you're constantly being pulled to do back up help bussing, prep work and running trash out to the dumpster on top of trying to flirt with the pretty waitresses. Which then causes a backup of dishes when you return because fuck you're behind again.

 

A cooks worse nightmare is that asshole that wants to return his dish a billion times or the idiot server who can't enter an order in correctly or doesn't pick up their dishes soon enough to get them off the counter so he can fill more orders.

 

I must iterate that any food work is unskilled work. Servers are encouraged to be good at their jobs to get tips which fill in for their really bad wage. A good restaurant will pay its back of house employees more if they are quality but really the only careerist working in a restaurant is the manger and the cook.

 

As a former food worker who will never EVER go back to working in food unless I own my own place I would have to say if I had to go back to waitressing I would pass up a restaurant that makes me share my tips with others. I earned the tips I get by sucking up to ridiculously stupid people, picky eaters, slovenly kids, explaining what comes in a dish when its clearly stated on the menu and "food allergies" made up by people who just don't like lettuce (How the hell can you be allergic to cellulose filled with water?).

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Very good points. My brother is a former bartender (part time....teacher pay sucks), and actually met his wife who was a waitress at Beyonce's favorite restaurant (cuz she slay), Red Hell as they call it. Which if even a fraction of the things they say are true, it deserves to be called. So I have heard a lot of stories of ridiculous customers, plus I have worked a variety of customer service jobs (never food service), to get a taste of how people are, so I believe everything I heard from my brother and sister in law.

 

Anyway, you are absolutely correct that the FOH employees do have a very emotionally draining job. People are asshats, who love to take their frustration with their crap lives out on you, simply because you "serve" them. I always tip well at restaurants because of this, and am polite to food servers because I know it is a tough job. Even when the service is not that great, as long as there is no downright rudeness (only happened once), I still tip at least the minimum 15%. But when I tip, I am also do so with the assumption that the BOH are getting part of that tip. I am cool with maybe the FOH getting a larger share, because I acknowledge bad customers justify it, but I also think BOH work just as hard in their own way.

Yeah, it ain't easy! it'd be great if the margins were high enough to where all successful restaurants did profit sharing with BOH employees. Unfortunately, the options explored usually are:

  • Raise prices
  • Reduce the number of employees on the line/floor
  • Reduce food costs

Unless people are just busting down your door to get in, raising prices chases customers away, thus wiping out any additional profit you may hope to make. Staff reduction slows service, causing tables to turn more slowly, thus wiping out any profit you may hope to make. Likewise, reducing cost without reducing quality can be very tricky, and customers have no problem saying "Buh-bye" if they feel your dishes aren't living up to past glories.

 

I love the food service industry and actually kind of miss it -- was seriously considering buying a brewpub last summer, but the more I researched it and did CBAs, the "con" side of the T-chart became impossibly long! Even if you love it and break your back, success is far from guaranteed.

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Oh yeah, Pong, these are restaurants are 80% busted by the first year. It's the most riskiest business you can get into. When you buy this you're effectively buying your job unless you hire spectacularly well and get a great manager and employees who are willing to work in a specific set wage area so you can at least break even or have profit.

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When you buy this you're effectively buying your job unless you hire spectacularly well and get a great manager and employees who are willing to work in a specific set wage area so you can at least break even or have profit.

Yup, and even if you have a great product and work ethic, location matters -- a lot -- as well as a heaping side of good luck/timing. Bigtime props to anybody who makes it work!

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