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The Ren getting PWNED problem


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Jedi were NOT celibate. Lucas said so himself. Attachment was forbidden, not sex. If you're gonna recite PT canon, at least get it right.

 

Luke never denied himself attachment, even after he was training to be a Jedi. His attachment to Vader was what saved Anakin Skywalker. Why on Earth would he go back to the old Jedi ideals after he proved them wrong?

Exactly. Like I said-- there's way more evidence that Luke goes his own way than there is that he would emulate the PT era Jedi.

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"Around the survivors, a perimeter create." = THE WORST.

God I hated Yoda's prequel dialogue. It went from occasional quirky backwards sentences in the OT to EVERY GODDAMN THING HE SAID.

Well, obviously that means you need more soccer training.

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If you want to be that pessimistic, you can say the entire Jedi Order was always doomed to failure.

It's not pessimism. Luke did fail a lot. Not so much because he wasn't a good teacher, but mostly because he operated outside a structured system. He was usually the master to many apprentices. In the Jedi Order younglings were taught skills and way of life. When they got older they were paired up to be a padawan to a Jedi Knight. From that point on they honed their skills, became(hopefully) better people, and potential Knights themselves. You read some of the books. Becoming a Jedit Knight could take years. It took Anakin 10+. Even the Sith with their rule of 2 never operated outside their structured system. For different reasons of course.

 

The Jedi Order fell because of their faith in things that eventually betrayed them. Namely Anakin and the Clones. The "prequel era" way the Jedi Order operated lasted thousands of years. The way Luke operated lasted..........a lot less.

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Jedi dude with the big, tall head. First one to die during Order 66.

And if you want to find out more about him (under the Legends banner at this point), Comixology conveniently has a sale on the Star Wars comic series started right around TPM with each issue for 99 cents. The first arc is about him. I can't speak for quality because I've never read it. The timing just seemed too perfect not to mention.

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If you want to be that pessimistic, you can say the entire Jedi Order was always doomed to failure.

It's not pessimism. Luke did fail a lot. Not so much because he wasn't a good teacher, but mostly because he operated outside a structured system. He was usually the master to many apprentices. In the Jedi Order younglings were taught skills and way of life. When they got older they were paired up to be a padawan to a Jedi Knight. From that point on they honed their skills, became(hopefully) better people, and potential Knights themselves. You read some of the books. Becoming a Jedit Knight could take years. It took Anakin 10+. Even the Sith with their rule of 2 never operated outside their structured system. For different reasons of course.

 

The Jedi Order fell because of their faith in things that eventually betrayed them. Namely Anakin and the Clones. The "prequel era" way the Jedi Order operated lasted thousands of years. The way Luke operated lasted..........a lot less.

 

Well, only one of Luke's failures actually counts right now, and we have no idea what actually happened to make Kylo Ben turn to the dark side. Saying it's Luke's fault seems premature, especially when the Resistance is so eager to get him back.

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Saw this online today:

 

"Star Wars is particularly good at tailoring its villains to what people of the time fear most: in the late 70’s/early 80’s, it was faceless, militaristic dictators, in the late 90’s/early 00’s it was shady politicians who seize power questionably and then immediately start wars with murky ulterior motives, and in the 10’s, it’s twentysomething white men with no self-control."

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Fair point Mara.

 

I just don't believe that Luke doing things his own way has anything to do with a belief that old Jedi ways failed. He had no way of knowing how the Jedi did things. Obviously him seeking out the first Jedi temple says that maybe they had a better way than he did.

 

Why Ren turned has no bearing on the fact that him and his thugs wiped out Luke's order. It actually lends credibility to the thought that Luke's order wasn't fully capable in the first place. Was there a disbelief that when Anakin/Vader entered the temple (albeit with a Clone battalion behind him) that he was taking out anyone who got in his way? Can you imagine Matt the radar technician and his boys getting that far? They weren't on that level. And chances are Luke's other students weren't either.

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Saw this online today:

 

"Star Wars is particularly good at tailoring its villains to what people of the time fear most: in the late 70’s/early 80’s, it was faceless, militaristic dictators, in the late 90’s/early 00’s it was shady politicians who seize power questionably and then immediately start wars with murky ulterior motives, and in the 10’s, it’s twentysomething white men with no self-control."

Quite, and add a warped sense of entitlement too (something something school shooter something)

 

I think he's a very unsympathetic character and not coming across (not yet anyway) as a victim of the big bad in the way that Anakin was, and I think that's more of a problem in some ways for the character than getting pwned

 

I think him developing in to a self-destructive Macbeth-like character is more plausible than any redemption arc at the moment

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Saw this online today:"Star Wars is particularly good at tailoring its villains to what people of the time fear most: in the late 70’s/early 80’s, it was faceless, militaristic dictators, in the late 90’s/early 00’s it was shady politicians who seize power questionably and then immediately start wars with murky ulterior motives, and in the 10’s, it’s twentysomething white men with no self-control."

If you took a poll today who wins? 20 something white male or 20 something Muslim radical? Or 60 something presidential candidate?

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Or Luke fights him with both.

 

There was a great part in the original Marvel run where Luke builds a second saber to handle Lumiya's weapon.

Ah yes! That brings back lots of memories! Really enjoyed reading that storyline when I was younger. Must dig those comics out sometime.

 

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