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The Ren getting PWNED problem


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Episode VII: Ren gets served

 

Episode VIII: Rey gets served

 

Episode IX: IT'S ON!

I just hope that Rey vs Ren doesn't become as tired as Neo vs Smith.

 

I think they can avoid this by having Rey vs Ren not be the main event of Episode VIII. Ren can dispatch of her easily but she is saved by Luke prior to the being able to kill her. Then the longer, more involved saber fight is Ren vs Luke.

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"Around the survivors, a perimeter create." = THE WORST.

God I hated Yoda's prequel dialogue. It went from occasional quirky backwards sentences in the OT to EVERY GODDAMN THING HE SAID.

Well, obviously that means you need more soccer training.

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It was a unique fight because neither participant was fully trained

 

I doubt the training Snoke spoke of has anything to do with increasing his power or skills. It's probably about completing his path to the Dark Side and preventing the good in him to win.

 

It'd be rather silly for a 30-year-old who has been trained all his life to suddenly need a remedial course to defeat a fledgling because he just hasn't learned enough.

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By which he probably meant to compete his submergence into the Dark Side.

 

30-years-old guys. If he really is getting a power boost from taking blows from freakin' Finn to owning an actually trained Rey, then it's just silliness all-around. If it happens, it can't be justified.

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I don't really see him being 30 years old having much relevance to whether he needs more training or not. We saw in Force Awakens that he wants to be on the level of Vader, and from what we saw we know he has a long way to go until he is on that level. He doesn't have the control or power that Sith/Dark side users have displayed before.

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I don't really see him being 30 years old having much relevance to whether he needs more training or not.

 

It means that he's matured in his training. Look at it this way. If you have a veteran chess master that falls to a prodigy who just learned the rules of chess that morning, the chess master might well go back and learn a lot of new techniques and become a somewhat better player. But if the prodigy spends the next year being coached in the theory of chess and being shown techniques, their improvement is going to be on a whole different scale. There's just so much more to learn at the beginning of mastering something when you're raw than there is when you've been doing something your entire life and are just building on already developed talents.

 

The idea that the two would meet again a year later and the veteran would dominate just doesn't make sense on a gut level. The prodigy would show more improvement every single time.

 

The only way Kylo Ren becomes more powerful isn't through "training" in more powerful techniques. It's through resolving his conflict. Killing Han, which was supposed to eliminate that conflict, didn't work. In fact the guilt probably makes him even weaker because he's not truly evil, but a guy who thinks he should be evil for some reason. That guilt will probably continue to hamper him as he ends Episode VIII having left Snoke, but still unable to join the Light Side out of shame. If there's a sudden power boost, I expect it to be in Episode IX when he "let's go" of the guilt from his past and finally reaches his potential.

 

But I don't buy for a second that Kylo Ren lost to Rey because he wasn't fully trained and he needs to go back to school for remedial improvement. As I said, if that's the way they're going, it's silly and cannot be justified.

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He lost to Rey because he was wounded, conflicted, over confident, and because she tapped, ever so briefly, into her potential.

 

I said this elsewhere, but we have to stop putting all Force things on the same scale.

 

Force potential, Force control, level of power, and exacting ability in specific tricks/skills are all individual pieces.

 

Kylo has great potential, a level of control that seems to vary based on his state, a very high level of skill with some abilities, but a lack of control in others.

 

Rey has off the charts potential, and nothing else. She was able to tap into that potential a couple of times to save herself. In those brief moments-- and Kylo knows it, she over-powered him despite him having more specific skills. For her it was raw power and the Force flowing through her.

 

"You mean it controls your actions?"

"Partially, but it also obeys your commands."

 

Kylo needs to level up in his ability to stay focused. When Snoke says he needs more training, that doesn't mean he has to learn more force-tricks or saber skills per se. It could simply mean he needs to learn how to govern his emotions better.

 

Again, Mr. Dameron, I feel like you take everything very very literally. Kylo's been trained, Rey has not, so it doesn't compute to you that she won. Kind of like when I said I liked one of the original Lucas drafts and it would be a great movie still and you assumed I mean I wanted Kiabur crystals, stodgy dialog and other such silliness, when really, I was just talking about the overall set up and story.

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Watch the fight again. At no point does Kylo try to end it like he did with Finn. He owns the fight up until he gives her a chance to join him. In Rey's vision, Ren saves her life. I don't think he was going to kill her unless he had to. The injury was a weak device, because Ren was more affected when Rey Dooku'd him.

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He lost to Rey because he was wounded, conflicted, over confident, and because she tapped, ever so briefly, into her potential.

Okay, then explain how Finn managed to get in a shot.

 

Kind of like when I said I liked one of the original Lucas drafts

I decided to walk away from that one awhile back now. I can always return to it if you insist.

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We're getting dangerously close to comparing power levels here. This is Star Wars, not a video game or Dragon Ball Z.

DARTH MENACE, on 17 Jul 2002 - 3:36 PM, said:

Midichlorian Count List for the major Star Wars characters

Anakin Skywalker = 27,700

Darth Sidious/Palpatine (with Kyber Crystal) = 20,000

Yoda = 17,700

Shintor Beerus (ancient Jedi Master) = 14,250

Ce Ce Denowai (the most powerful female Jedi) = 14,000

Ben(Jhon) Skywalker = 14,000

Anakin Solo (NJO) = 13,700

Count Dooku/Tyranus = 13,500

Obi-Wan Kenobi = 13,400

Kaja Sinis (the first Jedi) = 13,250

Darth Vader (after falling in the molten pit) = 13,000

Luke Skywalker = 12,500

Mace Windu = 12,000

Darth Maul = 12,000

Exar Kun (Dark Lord of the Sith during the Sith War)= 11,700

Darth Seer (Founder of the Sith Order)=11,200

Mara Jade = 11,000

Darth Sidious/Palpatine (without Kyber crystal) = 10,700

Tylus Liv=10,700

Jedi Master Corran Horn( from the New Jedi Order series of Star Wars novels) = 10,700

Darth Bane = 10,500

Joruus C'baoth=10,350

Darth Imperius (Darth Sidious' Master) =10,300

Plo Koon=10,300

Tahari Vehlia (NJO) = 10,300

Jedi Master Kam Solusar (NJO) = 10,100

Qui-Gon Jinn = 10,000

Leia Organa Solo = 10,000

Average Jedi = 10,000

Naga Sadow (Dark Lord of the Sith that fled to Yavin 4)= 9,400

Jedi Master Adeus Hust = 9,300

Jacen Solo (NJO) = 9,000

Jaina Solo (NJO) = 9,000

Jedi Master Cihgal (NJO) = 9,000

Darth Rage (Sidious' apprentice after Darth Maul) = 9,000

Jedi Master Tionne Solusar (NJO) = 8,500

Dezar Looger (Dagobah Dark Jedi)=8,400

Xio Jade = 7,400

Aurra Sing= 7,000

Need To be Considered for Training as a Jedi= 7,000

Padme Amidala = 4,700

Danni Quee (NJO Jedi Scientist)= 4,500

Shmi = 3,300

Lando Calsarrian = 1,500

Boba Fett= 1,500

Han Solo = 1,500

Jango Fett = 1,500

He said he got this from Lucas. Do you think it sounds right?

 

The Tank Awakens

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We're getting dangerously close to comparing power levels here. This is Star Wars, not a video game or Dragon Ball Z.

No-- you're right.

 

As evidenced by:

 

 

We're getting dangerously close to comparing power levels here. This is Star Wars, not a video game or Dragon Ball Z.

DARTH MENACE, on 17 Jul 2002 - 3:36 PM, said:

Midichlorian Count List for the major Star Wars characters

Anakin Skywalker = 27,700

Darth Sidious/Palpatine (with Kyber Crystal) = 20,000

Yoda = 17,700

Shintor Beerus (ancient Jedi Master) = 14,250

Ce Ce Denowai (the most powerful female Jedi) = 14,000

Ben(Jhon) Skywalker = 14,000

Anakin Solo (NJO) = 13,700

Count Dooku/Tyranus = 13,500

Obi-Wan Kenobi = 13,400

Kaja Sinis (the first Jedi) = 13,250

Darth Vader (after falling in the molten pit) = 13,000

Luke Skywalker = 12,500

Mace Windu = 12,000

Darth Maul = 12,000

Exar Kun (Dark Lord of the Sith during the Sith War)= 11,700

Darth Seer (Founder of the Sith Order)=11,200

Mara Jade = 11,000

Darth Sidious/Palpatine (without Kyber crystal) = 10,700

Tylus Liv=10,700

Jedi Master Corran Horn( from the New Jedi Order series of Star Wars novels) = 10,700

Darth Bane = 10,500

Joruus C'baoth=10,350

Darth Imperius (Darth Sidious' Master) =10,300

Plo Koon=10,300

Tahari Vehlia (NJO) = 10,300

Jedi Master Kam Solusar (NJO) = 10,100

Qui-Gon Jinn = 10,000

Leia Organa Solo = 10,000

Average Jedi = 10,000

Naga Sadow (Dark Lord of the Sith that fled to Yavin 4)= 9,400

Jedi Master Adeus Hust = 9,300

Jacen Solo (NJO) = 9,000

Jaina Solo (NJO) = 9,000

Jedi Master Cihgal (NJO) = 9,000

Darth Rage (Sidious' apprentice after Darth Maul) = 9,000

Jedi Master Tionne Solusar (NJO) = 8,500

Dezar Looger (Dagobah Dark Jedi)=8,400

Xio Jade = 7,400

Aurra Sing= 7,000

Need To be Considered for Training as a Jedi= 7,000

Padme Amidala = 4,700

Danni Quee (NJO Jedi Scientist)= 4,500

Shmi = 3,300

Lando Calsarrian = 1,500

Boba Fett= 1,500

Han Solo = 1,500

Jango Fett = 1,500

He said he got this from Lucas. Do you think it sounds right?

 

The *********** Awakens

 

DON'T SO THAT EVAR

 

 

He lost to Rey because he was wounded, conflicted, over confident, and because she tapped, ever so briefly, into her potential.

Okay, then explain how Finn managed to get in a shot.

 

Kind of like when I said I liked one of the original Lucas drafts

I decided to walk away from that one awhile back now. I can always return to it if you insist.

 

Cause he was cocky with Finn and didn't take him seriously. Finn may be mostly useless in a fight, but he;s not totally untrained-- plus he loves Rey and just saw her get whammo-ed.

 

And you can return to that topic if you want-- but I'm pretty sure it would be pointless.

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But I don't buy for a second that Kylo Ren lost to Rey because he wasn't fully trained and he needs to go back to school for remedial improvement. As I said, if that's the way they're going, it's silly and cannot be justified.

 

I think the problem is you already see Kylo as a veteran. He isn't as young as Rey sure, but he isn't what I'd call mature either. The fact she was able to beat him is reason enough he needs more training.

 

Plus Snoke might just be a really s*** teacher.

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