The Choc Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Episode VII: Ren gets served Episode VIII: Rey gets served Episode IX: IT'S ON!I just hope that Rey vs Ren doesn't become as tired as Neo vs Smith. I think they can avoid this by having Rey vs Ren not be the main event of Episode VIII. Ren can dispatch of her easily but she is saved by Luke prior to the being able to kill her. Then the longer, more involved saber fight is Ren vs Luke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 I'd be cool with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poe Dameron Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 It was a unique fight because neither participant was fully trained I doubt the training Snoke spoke of has anything to do with increasing his power or skills. It's probably about completing his path to the Dark Side and preventing the good in him to win. It'd be rather silly for a 30-year-old who has been trained all his life to suddenly need a remedial course to defeat a fledgling because he just hasn't learned enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Wader Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 My impression was that he was going to complete his training after facing his greatest test, which was Han Solo. Not so much that Rey beat him, but thats more evidence he has a long way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poe Dameron Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 If it does turn out that he actually is being trained up, I'm just going to declare it terrible storytelling here and now. The only way to make it work is for him to be inadvertently sabotaging himself by trying to force the Dark Side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Considering that Snoke flat out said that he is going to complete his training, I think it's a fair bet he is going to receive more training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poe Dameron Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 By which he probably meant to compete his submergence into the Dark Side. 30-years-old guys. If he really is getting a power boost from taking blows from freakin' Finn to owning an actually trained Rey, then it's just silliness all-around. If it happens, it can't be justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Wader Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 I don't really see him being 30 years old having much relevance to whether he needs more training or not. We saw in Force Awakens that he wants to be on the level of Vader, and from what we saw we know he has a long way to go until he is on that level. He doesn't have the control or power that Sith/Dark side users have displayed before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Luke's final test was killing Vader. Kylo's was killing Han-- but it didn't work. he's still conflicted. more to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poe Dameron Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 I don't really see him being 30 years old having much relevance to whether he needs more training or not. It means that he's matured in his training. Look at it this way. If you have a veteran chess master that falls to a prodigy who just learned the rules of chess that morning, the chess master might well go back and learn a lot of new techniques and become a somewhat better player. But if the prodigy spends the next year being coached in the theory of chess and being shown techniques, their improvement is going to be on a whole different scale. There's just so much more to learn at the beginning of mastering something when you're raw than there is when you've been doing something your entire life and are just building on already developed talents. The idea that the two would meet again a year later and the veteran would dominate just doesn't make sense on a gut level. The prodigy would show more improvement every single time. The only way Kylo Ren becomes more powerful isn't through "training" in more powerful techniques. It's through resolving his conflict. Killing Han, which was supposed to eliminate that conflict, didn't work. In fact the guilt probably makes him even weaker because he's not truly evil, but a guy who thinks he should be evil for some reason. That guilt will probably continue to hamper him as he ends Episode VIII having left Snoke, but still unable to join the Light Side out of shame. If there's a sudden power boost, I expect it to be in Episode IX when he "let's go" of the guilt from his past and finally reaches his potential. But I don't buy for a second that Kylo Ren lost to Rey because he wasn't fully trained and he needs to go back to school for remedial improvement. As I said, if that's the way they're going, it's silly and cannot be justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 He lost to Rey because he was wounded, conflicted, over confident, and because she tapped, ever so briefly, into her potential. I said this elsewhere, but we have to stop putting all Force things on the same scale. Force potential, Force control, level of power, and exacting ability in specific tricks/skills are all individual pieces. Kylo has great potential, a level of control that seems to vary based on his state, a very high level of skill with some abilities, but a lack of control in others. Rey has off the charts potential, and nothing else. She was able to tap into that potential a couple of times to save herself. In those brief moments-- and Kylo knows it, she over-powered him despite him having more specific skills. For her it was raw power and the Force flowing through her. "You mean it controls your actions?" "Partially, but it also obeys your commands." Kylo needs to level up in his ability to stay focused. When Snoke says he needs more training, that doesn't mean he has to learn more force-tricks or saber skills per se. It could simply mean he needs to learn how to govern his emotions better. Again, Mr. Dameron, I feel like you take everything very very literally. Kylo's been trained, Rey has not, so it doesn't compute to you that she won. Kind of like when I said I liked one of the original Lucas drafts and it would be a great movie still and you assumed I mean I wanted Kiabur crystals, stodgy dialog and other such silliness, when really, I was just talking about the overall set up and story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Krawlie Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 We're getting dangerously close to comparing power levels here. This is Star Wars, not a video game or Dragon Ball Z. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metropolis Posted February 10, 2016 Author Share Posted February 10, 2016 Watch the fight again. At no point does Kylo try to end it like he did with Finn. He owns the fight up until he gives her a chance to join him. In Rey's vision, Ren saves her life. I don't think he was going to kill her unless he had to. The injury was a weak device, because Ren was more affected when Rey Dooku'd him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metropolis Posted February 10, 2016 Author Share Posted February 10, 2016 The Maz-Chewie thing is still creepy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poe Dameron Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 He lost to Rey because he was wounded, conflicted, over confident, and because she tapped, ever so briefly, into her potential. Okay, then explain how Finn managed to get in a shot. Kind of like when I said I liked one of the original Lucas drafts I decided to walk away from that one awhile back now. I can always return to it if you insist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 What if Lucius Malfoy trained extra super hard for a bit and fought Captain America right after a vacation so he is rusty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacen123 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 We're getting dangerously close to comparing power levels here. This is Star Wars, not a video game or Dragon Ball Z.DARTH MENACE, on 17 Jul 2002 - 3:36 PM, said: Midichlorian Count List for the major Star Wars characters Anakin Skywalker = 27,700 Darth Sidious/Palpatine (with Kyber Crystal) = 20,000 Yoda = 17,700 Shintor Beerus (ancient Jedi Master) = 14,250 Ce Ce Denowai (the most powerful female Jedi) = 14,000 Ben(Jhon) Skywalker = 14,000 Anakin Solo (NJO) = 13,700 Count Dooku/Tyranus = 13,500 Obi-Wan Kenobi = 13,400 Kaja Sinis (the first Jedi) = 13,250 Darth Vader (after falling in the molten pit) = 13,000 Luke Skywalker = 12,500 Mace Windu = 12,000 Darth Maul = 12,000 Exar Kun (Dark Lord of the Sith during the Sith War)= 11,700 Darth Seer (Founder of the Sith Order)=11,200 Mara Jade = 11,000 Darth Sidious/Palpatine (without Kyber crystal) = 10,700 Tylus Liv=10,700 Jedi Master Corran Horn( from the New Jedi Order series of Star Wars novels) = 10,700 Darth Bane = 10,500 Joruus C'baoth=10,350 Darth Imperius (Darth Sidious' Master) =10,300 Plo Koon=10,300 Tahari Vehlia (NJO) = 10,300 Jedi Master Kam Solusar (NJO) = 10,100 Qui-Gon Jinn = 10,000 Leia Organa Solo = 10,000 Average Jedi = 10,000 Naga Sadow (Dark Lord of the Sith that fled to Yavin 4)= 9,400 Jedi Master Adeus Hust = 9,300 Jacen Solo (NJO) = 9,000 Jaina Solo (NJO) = 9,000 Jedi Master Cihgal (NJO) = 9,000 Darth Rage (Sidious' apprentice after Darth Maul) = 9,000 Jedi Master Tionne Solusar (NJO) = 8,500 Dezar Looger (Dagobah Dark Jedi)=8,400 Xio Jade = 7,400 Aurra Sing= 7,000 Need To be Considered for Training as a Jedi= 7,000 Padme Amidala = 4,700 Danni Quee (NJO Jedi Scientist)= 4,500 Shmi = 3,300 Lando Calsarrian = 1,500 Boba Fett= 1,500 Han Solo = 1,500 Jango Fett = 1,500 He said he got this from Lucas. Do you think it sounds right? The Tank Awakens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metropolis Posted February 11, 2016 Author Share Posted February 11, 2016 What was the name of that Star Wars fighting game? Masters of Teräs Käsi. I feel about that game like Driver feels about the prequels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Wader Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Masters of Teras Kasi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metropolis Posted February 11, 2016 Author Share Posted February 11, 2016 I should have googled before I posted lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Wader Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 All good, I had the free time to do it for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 We're getting dangerously close to comparing power levels here. This is Star Wars, not a video game or Dragon Ball Z. No-- you're right. As evidenced by: We're getting dangerously close to comparing power levels here. This is Star Wars, not a video game or Dragon Ball Z.DARTH MENACE, on 17 Jul 2002 - 3:36 PM, said: Midichlorian Count List for the major Star Wars characters Anakin Skywalker = 27,700 Darth Sidious/Palpatine (with Kyber Crystal) = 20,000 Yoda = 17,700 Shintor Beerus (ancient Jedi Master) = 14,250 Ce Ce Denowai (the most powerful female Jedi) = 14,000 Ben(Jhon) Skywalker = 14,000 Anakin Solo (NJO) = 13,700 Count Dooku/Tyranus = 13,500 Obi-Wan Kenobi = 13,400 Kaja Sinis (the first Jedi) = 13,250 Darth Vader (after falling in the molten pit) = 13,000 Luke Skywalker = 12,500 Mace Windu = 12,000 Darth Maul = 12,000 Exar Kun (Dark Lord of the Sith during the Sith War)= 11,700 Darth Seer (Founder of the Sith Order)=11,200 Mara Jade = 11,000 Darth Sidious/Palpatine (without Kyber crystal) = 10,700 Tylus Liv=10,700 Jedi Master Corran Horn( from the New Jedi Order series of Star Wars novels) = 10,700 Darth Bane = 10,500 Joruus C'baoth=10,350 Darth Imperius (Darth Sidious' Master) =10,300 Plo Koon=10,300 Tahari Vehlia (NJO) = 10,300 Jedi Master Kam Solusar (NJO) = 10,100 Qui-Gon Jinn = 10,000 Leia Organa Solo = 10,000 Average Jedi = 10,000 Naga Sadow (Dark Lord of the Sith that fled to Yavin 4)= 9,400 Jedi Master Adeus Hust = 9,300 Jacen Solo (NJO) = 9,000 Jaina Solo (NJO) = 9,000 Jedi Master Cihgal (NJO) = 9,000 Darth Rage (Sidious' apprentice after Darth Maul) = 9,000 Jedi Master Tionne Solusar (NJO) = 8,500 Dezar Looger (Dagobah Dark Jedi)=8,400 Xio Jade = 7,400 Aurra Sing= 7,000 Need To be Considered for Training as a Jedi= 7,000 Padme Amidala = 4,700 Danni Quee (NJO Jedi Scientist)= 4,500 Shmi = 3,300 Lando Calsarrian = 1,500 Boba Fett= 1,500 Han Solo = 1,500 Jango Fett = 1,500 He said he got this from Lucas. Do you think it sounds right? The *********** Awakens DON'T SO THAT EVAR He lost to Rey because he was wounded, conflicted, over confident, and because she tapped, ever so briefly, into her potential. Okay, then explain how Finn managed to get in a shot. Kind of like when I said I liked one of the original Lucas drafts I decided to walk away from that one awhile back now. I can always return to it if you insist. Cause he was cocky with Finn and didn't take him seriously. Finn may be mostly useless in a fight, but he;s not totally untrained-- plus he loves Rey and just saw her get whammo-ed. And you can return to that topic if you want-- but I'm pretty sure it would be pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacen123 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 But it's part of our own nightly history! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Wader Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 But I don't buy for a second that Kylo Ren lost to Rey because he wasn't fully trained and he needs to go back to school for remedial improvement. As I said, if that's the way they're going, it's silly and cannot be justified. I think the problem is you already see Kylo as a veteran. He isn't as young as Rey sure, but he isn't what I'd call mature either. The fact she was able to beat him is reason enough he needs more training. Plus Snoke might just be a really s*** teacher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Krawlie Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 I like that one of the guys on that list has the last name "Beerus." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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