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The Ren getting PWNED problem


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I'm willing to feel the pull to the light on this one.

 

Like others I had a problem with the fact the Kylo Ren actually lost his duel with Rey. Not a draw, but lost! It looked bad and neutered the character in the minds of many. I didn't like the fact that Ren looked to have the fight won until he mentions the force. Rey hears this, Hulks up, and delivers the big leg drop. And I'm not sold on the Kylo being shot with the bowcaster excuse either. Sure that was the purpose, but the injury came and went like an actor using a bad accent.

 

I came across someone's theory about Rey and Ren's connection. So I went back last night and watched Rey's lightsaber dream scene. I had always thought Ren was just stabbing a Jedi student. But it is apparent that he is saving Rey from being attacked by a possible Kinght of Ren. Did he kill his own follower to save Rey? Looks like it. It does seem like Kylo knows who Rey might be. Did he leave her on Jakku to protect her? If you watch the fight he doesn't really try to kill her. Almost like Vader in ESB, he might feel like he can get her to join him. I can absolutely see that.

 

The thing that has be guessing is what Rey would have done if the ground hadn't separated them? I'll give JJ a pass on this one because that might have been his intention. I'm still staring at the poster and am not staring to see the spaceship. Or it could be a boat who knows.

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"Around the survivors, a perimeter create." = THE WORST.

God I hated Yoda's prequel dialogue. It went from occasional quirky backwards sentences in the OT to EVERY GODDAMN THING HE SAID.

Well, obviously that means you need more soccer training.

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I don't have a problem with it at all. It was a unique fight because neither participant was fully trained, whereas every other fight had at least one person who was considered a total badass.

 

All of this is going to be part of Ren's transformation into a complete monster, so I think things will work out just fine.

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The only problem with it is peoples lack of imagination. Fans are too locked in to the thought that Kylo has to be some sort of super bad guy that Rey has to build to beating and that having her defeat him takes away from that. They are in all likiehood telling a different kind of story here.

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Okay ... I'll admit standing there with your eyes closed to access the force while STANDING NOSE TO NOSE with your adversary is lame.

 

But I love that she kicked his ASS. I just do. Sorry.

 

I also find it hilarious that some of the same people who had no problem with Molly Weasley kicking Bellatrix's ass all of the sudden have an issue with this when it's a similar problem. What made it palatable here is its the beginning of the story, not the end.

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No it was her ability. In 7 books there was never a single hint of her having any fighting prowess whatsoever. None. Nada. But then she defeats the most dangerous dark witch ever.

That's so Malfoy. Judging a Weasley by their red hair and tattered clothes.

 

Your asy least knew that Molly was probably proficient in magic.

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Short answer (because trying to come up with a long answer that I'm happy with is doing my head in):

 

Didn't mind Kylo Ren losing the fight (and he doesn't try to kill her because Snoke wants him to capture her), but the feeling-the-Force moment is becoming less convincing each time I watch it because it seems to last forever. Also interested in what would have happened if they hadn't been separated (and don't quote the novelization please); I think Rey's anger is going to be significant later.

 

The neutering of the character is the bit I'm struggling to untangle because I don't think a stalemate or him defeating her (but not capturing her) would have changed the fact that he's the wannabe; the narcissist; the one with the warped sense of entitlement; pretender to the Skywalker throne or whatever, and Rey's inferior in all sorts of ways. He's a character that invokes the worst kind of pity (Rey's contempt for him is written all over her face), and someone that audiences love to see getting their ass kicked.

 

I think he can easily come back (as Tex' complete monster) and inflict a defeat on Rey so he hasn't been neutered in that sense, but I think any redemption arc for him (not that I'm desperate for one) will be a hard sell because there's not much evidence that he was ever good at the moment.

 

(still not happy with it)

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I think of Rey beating Ren much the same way I look at Obi Wan beating Anakin. Yes they were very different circumstances, but Anakin losing to Obi Wan certainly didn't stop him from becoming a super villain later.

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Yeah agreed. I do not understand how a villain losing a fight to the hero in a movie suddenly invalidates everything.

 

He comes back stronger, and beats Rey next time.

 

Then in Episode 9 they are on equal footing and it's too the death. Or he turns back to good.

 

It's so obvious-- from his scrap yard lightsaber, to his admitting he is not fully trained, to admitting he has conflict, to the fact he worships Vader and aspires to be like him, that Kylo Ren is a work in progress. Getting his ass handed to him is part of that.

 

If she'd beat him in the first act he'd have been neutered-- but we had an entire movie where he killed people, destroyed shit, commanded evil forces AND killed a beloved legacy character. He earned his villain wings just fine, and despite everyone calling Rey a Mary Sue, the fact is she was running away from danger and conflict and being a hero until the moment she stands up to Kylo Ren.

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Meh. I think he's reckless, and he's used to being the only force user in the room. Rey isn't merely a force user, she's a strong force user, and possibly has more force potential than he does. This catches him totally off guard during the interrogation scene and, due to his lack of control and incomplete training, allows Rey a window into his mind.

 

He's somewhat better prepared for their duel. He has Rey beat, until he holds back in order to offer to train her. He assumes that, as he holds her to the edge of a precipice, her fear will keep her in check. When she is able to refocus (thanks to him), and channel the force, it again catches him totally of guard. He chokes as a result.

 

I think that Kylo will have more control in the next movie, and will be as powerful and as badass as OT Vader by the end of the trilogy. I don't have any problem with seeing him now, before he's reached that point.

 

A character can lose a fight without it affecting their underlying potential.

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Han is shown borrowing Chewie's bowcaster and royally F's up five or six stormtroopers with one shot. Chewie later shoots Kylo Ren right in the gut with the same bowcaster. Not only does he take it like a champ, but he punches himself where he got hit to hype himself up for the fight where Rey took advantage of his injury.

Kylo is still a badass.

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