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I had a Star Wars marathon recently and...


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...here are few impressions I was left with.

 

1) After watching all six movies, Rey's abilities in TFA don't seem that far-fetched compared to what we've seen in the other films. I've been among those who thought that Rey displayed too much ability for someone with no training in the force, to the point where it bordered on absurdity. Now, though, I'm not so sure. Is Rey's demonstration of her force abilities really all that different than Luke turning off his navigational computer and relying on his instincts during the DS battle, or Anakin using his natural force abilities to race pods and pilot Naboo fighters?

 

2) One thing I couldn't stop thinking about when Leia was being help prisoner on the DS was why Vader didn't use the force to probe her mind to find the location of the rebel base, like Kylo Ren does in TFA. If Kylo Ren has this ability, surely Vader did as well.

 

3) The PT's treatment of Yoda was wrong in every way. First, we never should have seen Yoda in a dual. It really wasn't necessary. He displayed way too much physical agility for someone who could barely walk a couple of decades later. For someone who lives hundreds of years, two decays isn't that long of time, and its hard to believe that his health could have gone downhill so quickly. He also was made to look like a hypocrite at times. For example, his saving the lives of Anakin and Obi-Wan, but admonishing Luke in the OT for wanting to save his friends under similar circumstances. I also didn't like the techno-jargon Yoda sometimes spouted. Yoda is a mystic, and shouldn't say things like "For the clones to discover the recalibration code, a long it will take."

 

4) I don't know if I've mentioned this before, but I felt like TFA diminished the significance of the other films, and made the ROTJ climax less meaningful. Viewing ROTJ again has only reinforced this view for me.

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#2   Vader later says "her resistance to the mind probe is considerable."   I've long since thought, after Vader plucked the existence of Leia from Luke's mind in ROTJ, that "mind probe" was a Force

Oh shit. There goes the thread.

1-I agree

 

2-Because that power hadn't been thought of yet and wasn't really shown in any form until ROTJ when Vader finds out about Leia through Luke's thoughts. I don't see this as a problem because if I did then we'd pretty much be stuck with only powers that were thought of in 1977.

 

3-Yoda is a mystic, but he still lives in the world. A mystic in todays world may still use computers, same thing. As far as him fighting, ofcourse it wasn;'t needed but it was fun. As far as him saving Anakin and Obi Wan, the situations are 100% different. Yoda didn't think Luke was ready, whereas if anyone was ever ready to face Count Dooku it was Yoda.

 

4-There have always been 2 stories at play in Star Wars, the big galaxy wide war and the personal struggle of the characters. From the galaxy wide war side I can see how someone would say TFA diminished the climax of ROTJ, but from the personal struggle standpoint I don't think it diminishes it at all. And for me, the smaller personal parts of the saga are the more important. Plus if TFA diminishes ROTJ, then Empire diminishes Star Wars.

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Agree with your first point 100%. Rey's development is perfectly in line with what's been established in the series before. Luke was never put into the same situations as Rey was, and by the time he did face his first enemy he was able to hold his own against the most powerful of all Jedi Knights, not some kid in training. (even if Vader was holding back, it's still impressive). And yeah, like you said, Anakin won a podrace at 8. Enough said.

 

Your second point - I think he probably did try. He does say her resistance is considerable. Kylo seemed to be using the same torture method as Vader (you can see the torture droid thing in the background with Poe, similar to the one in ANH). Poe isn't strong in the Force, Leia is. That's how I saw it at least.

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3) The PT's treatment of Yoda was wrong in every way. First, we never should have seen Yoda in a dual. It really wasn't necessary. He displayed way too much physical agility for someone who could barely walk a couple of decades later. For someone who lives hundreds of years, two decays isn't that long of time, and its hard to believe that his health could have gone downhill so quickly. He also was made to look like a hypocrite at times. For example, his saving the lives of Anakin and Obi-Wan, but admonishing Luke in the OT for wanting to save his friends under similar circumstances. I also didn't like the techno-jargon Yoda sometimes spouted. Yoda is a mystic, and shouldn't say things like "For the clones to discover the recalibration code, a long it will take."

 

I disagree with this.

 

Yes, Yoda's mobility was limited normally but his command of the force was such that he could overcome it in the short term. If a normal Jedi jumped or ran it would be just like any other being jumpiong or running but they also have the ability to augment these abilities with the force allowing them to force jump and force sprint. Yoda's species probably lent to this. Don't forget we have only seen him at about 850 years old. It's entirely possible that in his youth he could do all that unaided by the force.

 

Saving Obi-Wan and Luke was entirely different to Luke's circumstances in ESB. Luke was reacting to a force vision and Yoda cautioned him about what he saw and his interpretation. There was a risk that everything could be thrown away based on Luke's feelings folowing the vision. In AOTC he was right on hand to help the stricken Jedi and how could he not? It was based on reality and it really makes sense to me that he would try to save his fellow Jedi. It wasn't based on feelings or a vision or a whim.

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Not that I like to defend the PT, but I always thought that Yoda told Luke what he did because it was a lesson he learned. Had he sacrificed Obi-Wan to kill Dooku he could have ended the war before it began-- or at least slowed it considerably.

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Not that I like to defend the PT, but I always thought that Yoda told Luke what he did because it was a lesson he learned. Had he sacrificed Obi-Wan to kill Dooku he could have ended the war before it began-- or at least slowed it considerably.

This had always been my impression, too.

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Not that I like to defend the PT, but I always thought that Yoda told Luke what he did because it was a lesson he learned. Had he sacrificed Obi-Wan to kill Dooku he could have ended the war before it began-- or at least slowed it considerably.

 

This is the hypocrisy I was talking about. Yoda was basically telling Luke to make sacrifices that he himself seemed unwilling to make in the PT. I guess it could have been a lesson he learned, like you say. I just don't get that vibe from the movies. If that was the point, the prequels should have done more to hammer that point home.

 

 

 

Vader later says "her resistance to the mind probe is considerable."

 

I've long since thought, after Vader plucked the existence of Leia from Luke's mind in ROTJ, that "mind probe" was a Force-thing.

 

Good call. I always thought that the "mind probe" was some kind of machine/drug thing rather than a use of the force.

 

4-There have always been 2 stories at play in Star Wars, the big galaxy wide war and the personal struggle of the characters. From the galaxy wide war side I can see how someone would say TFA diminished the climax of ROTJ, but from the personal struggle standpoint I don't think it diminishes it at all. And for me, the smaller personal parts of the saga are the more important. Plus if TFA diminishes ROTJ, then Empire diminishes Star Wars.

 

I always liked the fact that those two stories were correlated, one being a metaphor for the other. TFA messes with that correlation. The personal stories go on, while galaxy wide "metaphorical" one has run its coarse.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

...here are few impressions I was left with.

 

1) After watching all six movies, Rey's abilities in TFA don't seem that far-fetched compared to what we've seen in the other films. I've been among those who thought that Rey displayed too much ability for someone with no training in the force, to the point where it bordered on absurdity. Now, though, I'm not so sure. Is Rey's demonstration of her force abilities really all that different than Luke turning off his navigational computer and relying on his instincts during the DS battle, or Anakin using his natural force abilities to race pods and pilot Naboo fighters?

 

2) One thing I couldn't stop thinking about when Leia was being help prisoner on the DS was why Vader didn't use the force to probe her mind to find the location of the rebel base, like Kylo Ren does in TFA. If Kylo Ren has this ability, surely Vader did as well.

 

3) The PT's treatment of Yoda was wrong in every way. First, we never should have seen Yoda in a dual. It really wasn't necessary. He displayed way too much physical agility for someone who could barely walk a couple of decades later. For someone who lives hundreds of years, two decays isn't that long of time, and its hard to believe that his health could have gone downhill so quickly. He also was made to look like a hypocrite at times. For example, his saving the lives of Anakin and Obi-Wan, but admonishing Luke in the OT for wanting to save his friends under similar circumstances. I also didn't like the techno-jargon Yoda sometimes spouted. Yoda is a mystic, and shouldn't say things like "For the clones to discover the recalibration code, a long it will take."

 

4) I don't know if I've mentioned this before, but I felt like TFA diminished the significance of the other films, and made the ROTJ climax less meaningful. Viewing ROTJ again has only reinforced this view for me.

Totally agree with you on #1

 

#2 is curious, but see below.

 

#3 Again, totally agree with you on Yoda. I also felt at 900 years old, and supposedly one of the most powerful force users of his era, using a lightsaber should be quaint. When Yoda embarrasses Dooku by absorbing his force lightning, and Dooku then challenges him to a lightsaber duel, Yoda's in-character response should have been to rip his saber out of his hand using the Force, and making Dooku to battle him with the Force As AOTC and ROTS age, Yoda's impression of Sonic the Hedgehog and flipping around with his saber just ages worse and worse.

 

As for the Palpatine/Yoda duel, again the sabers weren't necessary. We got a little bit of the force duel, but it should have been exclusively a Force battle. There is more to the force than using push/pull, lightning and absorbing lightning. Would have been cool to see other force powers in play.

 

 

#2

 

Vader later says "her resistance to the mind probe is considerable."

 

I've long since thought, after Vader plucked the existence of Leia from Luke's mind in ROTJ, that "mind probe" was a Force-thing.

I know that is kind of retcon-ish, but I have believed this since seeing TFA. ROTJ certainly demonstrates Vader can read minds.

 

It would make sense that Vader would have tried to use the force to probe Leia's mind, and it also makes sense that Leia would be able to latently resist Vader using the force, without realizing it. The only problem with that is....Sister! :) Why couldn't Luke resist Vader in ROTJ during the Death Star duel, and he was a fully trained Jedi. Does this mean that Leia has a stronger ability to block force mind probes? Maybe?!

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That whole "living force" bullcrap Qui-Gon spouted? I think that was Lucas' terrible way of trying to explain there are different aspects and ways to approaching and using The Force.

 

I think the simpler answer is, being a Jedi involves a wide range of tricks-- telepathic powers, telekinetic powers, physical powers, etc.

 

Luke clearly excelled in the physical while Obi-Wan was more mental. To use RPG terms-- it's not like every Jedi has perfect stats across the board.

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Rebels just used "ashla" in an episode, though in a different capacity. I always hoped "ashla" and "bendu" would've been used in the PT. They would've worked with the living and other references to aspects of the force, and maybe could've been better used in place of midichlorians.

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Do I blame him? No. I blame Lucas for casting him.

 

Was he good? No-- he was terrible for even a child actor. See Haley Joel Osmet at the same age.

 

Does any little kid deserve to get nerd rage thrown at them? No way.

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