Federal Overreach in Oregon. Worth Watching.

[Pong Messiah]

The emergence of the Dildo Militia has been really unfortunate, because they are both indefensible on many levels and a distraction to issues that people should be genuinely upset about in Oregon (and generally speaking, the Western US).

 

Rep. Greg Walden (R-Hood River) recently addressed the U.S. House on the issue of federal overreach. I think he did a great job of explaining why people living in these areas are so frustrated with the federal government; I think this is worth watching if you care about silly things like liberty, representative government, etc.:

 

[Ms. Spam]

Laugh out loud. It gets better, Pong!

 

http://gawker.com/powerful-oregon-militiamen-upload-video-of-themselves-1753840048

[Ms. Spam]

Oh and comments on that link are AWESOME.

[Pong Messiah]

Those guys piss me off so much.

 

Because of those dumb****s, it's literally going to be at least a decade before we can even try to have a discussion in Oregon about federal/state government overreach/illogical micromanagement/regulations as weapons or job-justifiers (cripplingly serious issues here IMO) without it being waved off as "the kind of thing those mouth-breathing Dildo-Militia rednecks ranted about." And with all the tribal land issues being conflated and the artifact groping and now those stupid-ass horns, it's just such a ****ing tragic mess of retardation. Thinking about those guys literally makes me a little sick.

 

You didn't bother watching the video I posted, did you Spam?

[Ms. Spam]

It won't load on my old iPhone but there is a lot of federal government management issues and not just in Oregon. The government kinda sucks at this stuff and has a bad track record that stretches for more than a century. I can think of a half dozen examples thanks to my Mom working on a reservation.

 

I don't think that they want to take a look at this in Congress or local ot state government because it's messy and could open the door to culpability that could lead to lawsuits. These yahoos who do this - like these militia men - hurt themselves because the way people see them but really they have a point or justification to earnestly gripe about.

[Jacen123]

It won't load on my old iPhone but there is a lot of federal government management issues and not just in Oregon. The government kinda sucks at this stuff and has a bad track record that stretches for more than a century. I can think of a half dozen examples thanks to my Mom working on a reservation.

 

 

[Guest El Chalupacabra]

Pong, I can see what you are saying, as well as saw the video, and heavy handed government that doesn't know what the left hand is doing is never a good thing.

 

But I am not sure what exactly the issue you have is? Could you articulate the specific issues you have, with regard to land mismanagement? I do understand your issue with the Dildo Militia hijacking the topic, and being a distraction, though.

[Pong Messiah]

Did you watch the video, Chalups? Iirc, at least a few specific issues that get under my skin are covered there.

 

In the specific case of the Hammonds (who have already admitted wrongdoing, paid fines, and served some time in prison), there are a lot of nuances and they are certainly not "heroes for freedom," but I think it is absurd and frightening that government lawyers decided to go the anti-terrorism route to ensure they got a mandatory minimum. I mean, if the intent of the fire was to injure or kill, terrorize, prevent the government or others from doing business -- fine, throw the book at them. But that was not the case here. Here, it seems clear to me that the law is being used to punish people who are deemed "in the way of progress" or on somebody's **** list for whatever reason. I really do not like that -- the $400,000 fine and 3/13 months prison sentences sure seem a lot more proportionate to the crimes committed.

 

Here's some background

 

Here's a "pro Hammond" article from some conservative hack (a heavily slanted cheerleading piece to be sure, but I don't see any inaccuracies or major omissions in it)

 

And btw, the Hammonds went to prison peacefully and have made it clear they did not want the Dildo Militia's "help." Probably because they aren't actually helping anything?

[Ms. Spam]

Yeah, I'm not sure what the goal is for these guys. I think it would be funny if they emerged one day and discovered all the media and FBI chucked it all and went home. It's more for LULZ now than making a point. I am by nature a giant nature hippy-dippy and this just rankles. Government has other things to do than jail and entertain a red neck yahoo.

[Guest El Chalupacabra]

Did you watch the video, Chalups? Iirc, at least a few specific issues that get under my skin are covered there.

 

In the specific case of the Hammonds (who have already admitted wrongdoing, paid fines, and served some time in prison), there are a lot of nuances and they are certainly not "heroes for freedom," but I think it is absurd and frightening that government lawyers decided to go the anti-terrorism route to ensure they got a mandatory minimum. I mean, if the intent of the fire was to injure or kill, terrorize, prevent the government or others from doing business -- fine, throw the book at them. But that was not the case here. Here, it seems clear to me that the law is being used to punish people who are deemed "in the way of progress" or on somebody's **** list for whatever reason. I really do not like that -- the $400,000 fine and 3/13 months prison sentences sure seem a lot more proportionate to the crimes committed.

 

Here's some background

 

Here's a "pro Hammond" article from some conservative hack (a heavily slanted cheerleading piece to be sure, but I don't see any inaccuracies or major omissions in it)

 

And btw, the Hammonds went to prison peacefully and have made it clear they did not want the Dildo Militia's "help." Probably because they aren't actually helping anything?

Yeah, I did see it. But I didn't know what was the topic you wanted to discuss was. I wasn't intending to put you on the spot.

[Ryn]

Oh and comments on that link are AWESOME.

Indeed!

[Ryn]

[Ryn]

#OregonUnderAttack

[Guest El Chalupacabra]

http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/militants-continue-to-operate-bulldozers-move-soil-in-refuge-/

 

 

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service confirmed Thursday that not only is the road built last week by the occupiers new, but it is also within an archaeological site important to the Burns Paiute Tribe.

This is why we can't have nice things.

 

What little sympathy I might have had for this argument against government overreach in this case vanished with this news. This is outrageous, and its because of nitwits like this the government had to step in in the first place. You want to stop having the government telling you what to do? Then police your redneck hicktards and keep them from ruining nature preserves and indigenous cultural artifacts and sites.

[Pong Messiah]

The artifact stomping has been in the news for a few days now, Chalups (I think I referred to it in an earlier post).

 

Please don't conflate them with the larger issues; those guys are so wrong in so many ways, including their choice of a site to "occupy"... I wish I could just believe they were a bunch of agent provocateurs, because it appears every statement, every action by them has been tailored to yield the most negative response possible, but that picture of the Tusken Raiders I posted a few weeks ago was, unfortunately, quite accurate.

 

But that doesn't mean the federal and state governments are always right in managing land/regulations etc... it only means these guys are very, very wrong.

[Guest El Chalupacabra]

No I get you, Pong. Government bureaucrats can be the worst. The Feds can over reach in all walks of life. It is absurd that if Greg Walden authored a law that the very department he wrote the law for basically tells him he doesn't understand the law. In AZ, we recently had a case where the Forest Service was going to remove wild horses from the Tonto National Forest, some suspected they were actually going to kill them in the dead of night, even though they had been there for centuries, and it was against the wishes of the local people. These horses migrate onto nearby Native American reservations are even considered sacred by the San Carlos and Fort Apache tribes, which border the TNF. The excuse was to preserve vegetation, but these animals have lived there for centuries and were part of the environment. Public outcry has postponed this move.

 

Another example is in Northern AZ, forests have been heavily regulated by the Feds since the 1990s, in an effort to conserve the trees, but the real result is that there has been some major fires that have destroyed thousands of acres of trees, and local lumber companies have folded because they cannot cut surplus trees. Many argue that by not thinning these forests directly led to these fires which caused far more damage than managed thinning of surplus trees would have.

 

I could cite other examples where the feds interfere in a whole host of ways, so I understand what you mean with government being intrusive, or operates outside of common sense. And I understand what you mean about a few idiots ruining it for the rest. But the problem I have is that whenever it comes down to the ruination of nature or indigenous peoples' lands and artifacts that are (or ought to be) protected, my personal bias is that I will come down on their side, every time. Even if it means a rancher is going to be inconvenienced. To me, that is the lesser of two evils.

[Pong Messiah]

But the problem I have is that whenever it comes down to the ruination of nature or indigenous peoples' lands and artifacts that are (or ought to be) protected, my personal bias is that I will come down on their side, every time. Even if it means a rancher is going to be inconvenienced. To me, that is the lesser of two evils.

Well, I think going the anti-terrorism route when there is no terrorizin' intent qualifies as more than a simple inconvenience, but so long as said ranchers are reimbursed somehow for their inconvenience, I agree with you 100% on a philosophical level!

[Ms. Spam]

I always liked how the government forced Indian, er, excuse me, Native American women into sterilization. Also casinos and firewater or how about the time the government took over a mine in West Virginia. While terrorism is the new blanket cover to get away with stupid things the government has already proven its interest to protect the public is contrarian. Look at Flint,MI!