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Who is scarier to you: Trump or Cruz?


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was going to include dems too but i decided nobody important is really terrified of clinton it is more disappointment andor contempt with her

 

also i left sanders out bc even though he might be scary to the far right its not like he has a chance at the dem nom i wouldnt bet on him getting it even if clinton scandalizes herself out of the race

 

so back to trump and cruz

 

they seem to scare the living **** out of ppl

 

viewed as dumber than gwb and eviler than dick cheney its like dick bush running for prez

 

btw cruz is actually highly intelligent but that is neither here nor there

 

anyway i still have a hard time seeing trump or cruz getting the nomination no matter how well they are polling no matter how inevitable it seems

 

but what if the unthinkable happens and one of those men become president

 

is either one of them less bad or scary to you than the other

 

will u leave the country

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What the fuck did you just ****ing say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have ove

Easily Cruz. Short version: because he's a true believer.   To answer this question fully you have to first step back and understand where the candidates are drawing their support from. Although som

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Oh gosh. Cruz is scarier because he actually has a political history - government shut downs aren't exactly what I'm looking for in a president.

 

But Trump is scary because he doesn't care what happens to anyone and his rhetoric is inflammatory and appeals so much to the insane.

 

So Cruz wins, but I'm also more okay with him winning because he's not as much a sideshow.

 

And if I'm willing to live in the same country as Krawlie, obv nothing will make me leave.

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What the fuck did you just ****ing say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my words. You think you can get away with saying shit to me over the Internet? Think again, ****er. As we speak I am contacting my network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re ****ing dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your tongue. You didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit all over you and you will drown in it. You’re ****ing dead, kiddo.

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What the **** did you just ****ing say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my words. You think you can get away with saying **** to me over the Internet? Think again, ****er. As we speak I am contacting my network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re ****ing dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your ass off the face of the continent, you little ****. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your tongue. You didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will **** all over you and you will drown in it. You’re ****ing dead, kiddo.

B+: Grammar was too good. Too many correct uses of "you're"

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Guest El Chalupacabra

I would have to say I fear Cruz more, for sure.

 

Trump says douchey and/or crazy things, half of which he is basically appealing to the lowest knuckle draggers of the GOP, but likely doesn't believe himself.

 

When Cruz says douchey/crazy things, I think he really means it!

 

 

Also, Krawlie for post of the decade!

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What the **** did you just ****ing say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my words. You think you can get away with saying **** to me over the Internet? Think again, ****er. As we speak I am contacting my network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re ****ing dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your ass off the face of the continent, you little ****. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your tongue. You didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will **** all over you and you will drown in it. You’re ****ing dead, kiddo.

You should gift this post to Marco Rubio for his debates--it would sell him as the badass of his dreams, instead of the lisping joke of his reality.

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Easily Cruz. Short version: because he's a true believer.

 

To answer this question fully you have to first step back and understand where the candidates are drawing their support from. Although some that are analyzing the election in an unsophisticated manner lump all the anti-establishment candidates into a big "outsider" group, the truth is that they have very different bases. There was a good article in the NYT that explained this. The long and short of it is- candidates like Carson (who has since imploded, his support going to Cruz), drew their supporters from the religious right. Carson was their guy until Trump exposed him, and now their votes have gone to Cruz, at least for the time being. They probably would've preferred someone like Carson since he's less inflammatory, but Cruz will do just fine for them as well. These voters are looking for someone that stresses social conservatism front and center, likes overt and frequent references to God and Christianity, and likes a generally unwavering stance on economic issues.

 

Trump, by contrast, is pulling his voters from a completely different faction- the disaffected. The type of voter that may vote Republican mostly, but is likely to identify himself as "independent" and before the Reagan years, was probably a Democrat. These were the voters that tended to support Perot in '92, who by the way, pulled voters from both Bush and Clinton (it is a popular, but incorrect, myth that he solely took voters from Bush and was the spoiler). These voters care more about economics, where they tend to be protectionist and anti-trade, and less about social issues. Consistent with that, you notice these are the issues that Trump pushes in his rallies- I just watched his latest speech in Vermont from last week, and in contrast with Carson or Cruz, there is practically no discussion of social issues, not a mention of God, but a lot of talk about say, immigration and China.

 

One voter you see more of in Iowa, where Cruz leads, and the other is more prevalent in NH, where Trump leads. Examining the candidates' constituency is important in informing you where their bread is buttered, so to speak. The religious right tends to expect someone more ideologically "pure," and as such, Cruz fits the bill- he is an ideologue who is driven more by a specific agenda, and he gains respect from not wavering from that agenda when he was in Congress. On the other hand, the disaffecteds aren't necessarily consistent on any particular issue- they are more concerned about their economic well being and having strong leadership. Their participation in, for example, the Tea party rallies had a lot less to do with actually agreeing with an economic conservative message, and more about just voicing discontent with DC. The Atlantic had a great article about this recently, examining the Trump base, "The Great Republican Revolt" (well worth a read).

 

So given all that, what would each candidate look like in the White House? Well, we already have an idea with Cruz- again, much more of a "true believer" who gains his support from those expecting purity and who's become known for being inflexible on anything outside of the agenda. In that sense, it's very predictable what items he would push (whether he'd actually get Congressional support is another story, of course).

 

But what about Trump? Well, he'd be more of a wild card for sure, but upon closer examination, he'd be less alarming than you think. Trump, unlike Cruz, is not an ideologue. It's not clear he really has any true agenda at all. He's gone back and forth on many issues, but one thing he's been consistent about, is he's always had a bit of a nationalist streak, and leaning anti-trade (you can go back to interviews in the 90s and 80s and he's always basically held those positions). But on everything else, I don't think he really has an opinion. Really, what's guiding him more than anything else, is his own personal popularity. When you look at it like that, the degree of 'craziness' there would be, seems to be somewhat exaggerated. There was a good article in the Washington Post about this, ""It’s not chaos. It’s Trump’s campaign strategy," discussing his campaign. Despite candidates like Bush labeling Trump a "chaos candidate," in reality, Trump's campaign is very calculated and meticulous. Everything Trump is doing is not by accident- it's discussed more in the article, so I won't repeat it here, but basically Trump is a master at marketing and salesmanship, and carefully pushes issues that resonate with the crowd, and discards those that don't. Many people have really failed to understand how Trump has gained his support and how he campaigns, including Bush (which explains why he has been so ineffective at surviving Trump's attacks).

 

So from that perspective, I think Trump would end up having generally a centrist presidency. He'd probably be more hard-line on immigration, but on just about every other issue, Trump has shown flexibility and unlike Cruz, relishes deal-making. Cruz never struck me as someone that enjoyed the Congressional game (as opposed to Trump, who basically lives on negotiation) and I see Cruz taking more of a "my way or the highway" approach, which if he has the numbers in Congress, is certainly more worrisome (and if he doesn't, would lead to yet another 4 years of gridlock). Trump, on the other hand, is more of a centrist and has taken positions outside the orthodoxy- for example, on infrastructure (he supports increased spending), or banking (he supports increased taxes on Wall Street hedge funds), or trade (he would increase tariffs). There's a lot there where he could give Democrats a win on, whereas Cruz is much more handcuffed to his ideology. I actually think Trump is probably the best bet to get some of the grand bargains we haven't seen since the Clinton years. On top of that, you have to remember that Trump is not financially beholden to anyone, whereas do you really think Cruz would bite the hand that feeds him?

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Reasonable post, CM. Cruz is debiled eggs.

 

Also, agreed on Trump. Read an article yesterday from somebody who finally went and attended a rally, describing it like a standup routine from a political insult comic -- more like an hour of catharsis for people who hate politicians than anything resembling a substantive speech... not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

I also agree that once in office, it's worth betting that he'd be more centrist on many policies than the GOP warriors would like. They say they hate him cause he's a buffoon who is gonna ruin the brand (how does one "ruin" a brand that half the country already hates?), and I'm sure that is true on at least a few levels. But I think the bigger, unspoken fear, is that a successful Trump, with his near-complete disinterest in social issues and squishy economic views (more opportunistic than idealistic) would transform their party in ways that would leave them out in the cold.

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From the Washington Post article:

 

These patterns of speaking, along with his charm and sometimes lavish praise for people he likes, resonate with many conservative voters who are looking for someone to trust over the mainstream media. They see Trump as genuine and honest, one of the few politicians who don’t lie to them, even if his comments are not fully true.

This, I think, is what's really making Trump popular. Hell, I'd most likely vote for the guy despite the fact I far from agree with him on everything. I'd probably agree with Sanders over Trump on more things, but Sanders seems "handcuffed to ideology", as CM put it, while there's this pragmatism (some might say shameless opportunism) about Trump that strikes me as willing to deviate from any ideological program or even campaign platform if that's what the issue at hand called for.

 

It's also noteworthy how internet and social media has provided candidates with alternate ways of acquiring political traction for campaign success, to varying degrees. Ron Paul's campaigns were kind of a precursor to this. Obama used it to effect in 2008. Trump and Sanders alike are using it to do an end run around party machines that would have been better able to stifle candidates who took positions that their respective party establishments didn't like as recently as the late 90s and early 2000s.

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That describes most of CMs posts.

 

And I agree that, taken alone, Cruz is worse. But Trump has given voice to those that we like to pretend don't exist, and those people are scary.

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