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Your Episode 8 Nooooooooooo List


Pong Messiah
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I hope you're not implying that I'm being misogynistic. If I've given that impression here, I'd like a chance to rectify that, as that is not my intention at all.

Easy enough, just copy-paste from any of the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pop-culture, geek feminist blogs on the internet, and you should be okay. Be sure you get enough buzz words - "privilege", "dudebro", "social context" and so forth for that added credibility you need to be an on line know-it-all. That's probobly what most of these blogs do themselves. The 'likes' will pour in.

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From the brief flashback it appeared that Rey was either sold to the junk dealer or taken as payment.

There is nothing that even hints at Rey being a slave.

 

It's something I have been wondering about.

 

 

- He is the one that is holding her back as a kid.

- When she's cleaning her haul there is clearly an overseer telling her to stop daydreaming

 

but at the same time

 

-she can pretty much come and go as she wishes

-she lives on her own away from town

 

But if the only source of food is to work it doesn't matter where you live really. I get the impression you have to find your own accommodation. Shmi and Anakin have their own house in TPM but are enslaved.

 

It's real easy for the slaver if you don't have to house your slaves as well.

 

A lot of this is extrapolation I know. We have no idea what the geography, economic and socio-political situation is like on Jakku.

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I had no sense that Rey was a slave in the classic sense. She was simply highly exploited labor with no other options. She scavenged all day long for a small portion of food. Her options were to either do this, or die of starvation.

 

I'm sure the people she sold her scavenged parts to were making plenty of money off of her. And they only had to pay her with enough food to keep her alive and hungry. Which I doubt cost them anything. If she starts slacking off, they cut her "pay" and force her to work more in order to survive. Or, in the case of BB-8, force her to part with something that she'd prefer to keep but they want.

 

So, not slavery. But it's a distinction without a difference.

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Slavery:

 

noun
  1. the state or condition of being a slave; a civil relationship whereby one person has absolute power over another and controls his life, liberty, and fortune
  2. the subjection of a person to another person, esp in being forced into work
  3. the condition of being subject to some influence or habit
  4. work done in harsh conditions for low pay

Ticks a lot of boxes doesn't it?

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I believe that everyone was using the simple definition of slavery as one person (or being in this case) legally owning another.

 

I don't believe Rey was ever "owned" in the classic sense. She was merely on the short end of a ridiculously lopsided management/labor balance of power. The difference in outcome is negligible, and indeed some definitions of slavery have become broad enough to encompass such relationships, but I don't think the need for a techno-scavenger union is what we're talking about here.

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From the brief flashback it appeared that Rey was either sold to the junk dealer or taken as payment.

There is nothing that even hints at Rey being a slave.

It's something I have been wondering about.

 

 

- He is the one that is holding her back as a kid.

- When she's cleaning her haul there is clearly an overseer telling her to stop daydreaming

 

but at the same time

 

-she can pretty much come and go as she wishes

-she lives on her own away from town

But if the only source of food is to work it doesn't matter where you live really. I get the impression you have to find your own accommodation. Shmi and Anakin have their own house in TPM but are enslaved.

 

It's real easy for the slaver if you don't have to house your slaves as well.

 

A lot of this is extrapolation I know. We have no idea what the geography, economic and socio-political situation is like on Jakku.

Anakin and Shmi had trackers in their bodies that could be detonated if they tried to escape. Jakku seems like an even more desolate planet than Tatooine. The downed Star Destroyers were the closet thing to a city that we saw.
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From the brief flashback it appeared that Rey was either sold to the junk dealer or taken as payment.

There is nothing that even hints at Rey being a slave.

It's something I have been wondering about.

 

 

- He is the one that is holding her back as a kid.

- When she's cleaning her haul there is clearly an overseer telling her to stop daydreaming

 

but at the same time

 

-she can pretty much come and go as she wishes

-she lives on her own away from town

But if the only source of food is to work it doesn't matter where you live really. I get the impression you have to find your own accommodation. Shmi and Anakin have their own house in TPM but are enslaved.

 

It's real easy for the slaver if you don't have to house your slaves as well.

 

A lot of this is extrapolation I know. We have no idea what the geography, economic and socio-political situation is like on Jakku.

Anakin and Shmi had trackers in their bodies that could be detonated if they tried to escape. Jakku seems like an even more desolate planet than Tatooine. The downed Star Destroyers were the closet thing to a city that we saw.

Was that stated in the movies? I don't remember that

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One of the failings of the prequels was we knew how it was going to end. There was nothing to seriously debate. I mean we had the whole Palpatine = Sidious debate, but that was just wishful thinking on the part of people who didn't want it to be so obvious. That's what spawned the Kitster = Fett and Naboo = Degobah debates. We knew the story, so we looked for anything to discuss and debate.

 

If Rey is Luke's kid it will be too obvious and easy. The single best plot twist of the originals was finding out Vader was Luke's father. It completely changed the way we looked at him and the whole story. If they just rehash that with Rey being Luke's kid or whatever, it will cheapen the sequels. In my opinion. I want something I don't see coming. Granted I don't want it to be as dumb as her being a clone either. I want something none of us have guessed yet.

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I want something none of us have guessed yet.

 

I vote for Rey turning out to be a time traveling Shmi.

 

Now we'll finally learn how she became miraculously pregnant. And we'll spend the time between Episode VIII and IX wondering if they'll have Luke go full Phillip J. Fry.

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One of the failings of the prequels was we knew how it was going to end. There was nothing to seriously debate. I mean we had the whole Palpatine = Sidious debate, but that was just wishful thinking on the part of people who didn't want it to be so obvious. That's what spawned the Kitster = Fett and Naboo = Degobah debates. We knew the story, so we looked for anything to discuss and debate.

 

If Rey is Luke's kid it will be too obvious and easy. The single best plot twist of the originals was finding out Vader was Luke's father. It completely changed the way we looked at him and the whole story. If they just rehash that with Rey being Luke's kid or whatever, it will cheapen the sequels. In my opinion. I want something I don't see coming. Granted I don't want it to be as dumb as her being a clone either. I want something none of us have guessed yet.

To me, one of the failings of the PT is that a decent writer wouldn't have been trapped by this. We knew a few details and the basic ending, but how we reached those points could have been full of surprises. I dare say even the thing that ultimately made Anakin turn could have been a fun surprise.

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Can't say I get you on this. There were a ton of important decisions and plot points, starting with Anakin's age, that weren't the safe and expected way to go. For good or ill, the Prequels were pretty different than the story most people expected. That was one of the chief complaints if I recall. That it was different than how a lot of people imagined it would be.

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The continuity between the two trilogies is, for the most part, just fine. The biggest continuity issue of the series is still pretty much Ben's comments about Anakin in A New Hope, that they hand waved away. Comparatively, the Prequel stuff can be squinted out of existence.

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The continuity between the two trilogies is, for the most part, just fine. The biggest continuity issue of the series is still pretty much Ben's comments about Anakin in A New Hope, that they hand waved away. Comparatively, the Prequel stuff can be squinted out of existence.

My point is, for example, Obi-Wan saying when he first met Anakin he was a gifted pilot that was strong in the force, so he decided to train him as a Jedi, could be presented in a lot of ways. Sure, most of us probably thought a young adult Anakin was a hotshot pilot like Luke that Obi-Wan met on a mission, then trained.

 

When I say UNEXPECTED I mean portraying this in a way no one saw coming, that would still work with the basic description. Maybe Anakin was a space pirate, or a bounty hunter, or a lowly staff flight officer that Obi-Wan meets by chance. Unexpected, but still works in the framework, and more importantly, anything could be made entertaining and well-done by a decent filmmaker.

 

Instead, Qui-Gon discovers an 8 year old that races pods and tells Obi-Wan to train Anakin. Not only does it rob Obi-Wan of any agency, it's simply not what was told to us before and it feels wrong. Plus, it's just stupid and it was horribly written, acted, and directed.

 

I get it-- the PT works for you. And that's awesome. But it didn't for me. My point was-- just because we knew the rough ending of the PT ahead of time, by no means does that mean it was an impossible task to tell a story that had a unique journey and was entertaining.

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