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Rey Skywalker training with Luke. She figures it out and before Luke can say "I am your father" she says "I know I am your daughter".

Like the idea that Leia uses the force but not in an action way. I want to see her move away from the distant, stilted General/Princess persona that was the cause of Ben's issues and reach out to Ben. This should find it's resolution in Ep IX. Make this saga about mummy issues instead of daddy issues ;)

On that note. Rey's mother is alive! Maybe a revelation for IX

Poe and Finn together on a mission

Phasma gets more time. Demoted, she makes it her personal mission to seek out and destroy Finn the turncoat.

Chewie and Rey team up in the Falcon on mission set by Luke.

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Were it my story to write, I'd avoid either extreme with Kylo. Piss yellow eyed dark side would, IMO, be boring and one dimensional. Snoke (like Palpatine before him) should fill that role. But we'r

More comparative EU research so as not to tell the same stories all over again.

-captain plasma asks Finn to "show her the pipe"

I want to see Chewie vs Kylo Ren.

 

Revenge is a dish best served hairy!!

 

Seriously though. He is the one person aside from Leia and Luke who might have a reason to go get Kylo Ren. I don't think the new cast even know that he is Han's son. I don't think it was mentioned anyway. They seemed to separate that part of the story from Rey and Finn.

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Over in the thread about whether or not Rey was a Mary-Sue, I had this to say:

 

Heroic characters, of either gender, are defined by how they hold up and evolve in the face of challenge and adversity, and the thematic values and philosophical underpinnings that they advance in the stories they appear in. Not simply by their in-story powers and abilities. Merely laying an ass kicking on some space nazis makes for an ultimately shallow cinema experience. Star Wars originally understood this, but Mr. Lucas lost sight of that during the prequil trilogy. Were Rey's story to bring that understanding back to the SW franchise, that would make her a much greater and more memorable character than simply having strong force powers and being good at many things ever could.

As such, I hope they do more here than have some bad-ass hot chick with a light saber waste a bunch of space nazis. Yes, I know, it's what geekdom wants. Or thinks it wants. But if that's all we get, we won't even be wondering why it is we've forgotten about this Star Wars trilogy five years from now. You know, the one that didn't suck the way the prequils did, and the Skywalker was a hot babe/feminist icon, but that we'd rather have played the video game tie-in to after seeing it twice. Technology evolves, cultural tastes and sensitivities evolve, attitudes towards gender evolve, but much of what makes great cinema doesn't. This doesn't mean there can't be special effects or cool action sequences, but let's see not just the return of the jedi, but also the return of good dialogue, acting, characterization and thematic depth to the SW franchise.

 

While it's a long shot, it'd be daring to see a somewhat sympathetic portreyal of a dark side force user, Kylo being the obvious candidate. Perhaps even a defensive representation of Sith philosophy. It is not human nature to do things strictly for the "evulz." We saw Kylo actively resisting the the pull of the light side. I'm hoping for a convincing explanation for this.

 

Good hero, good story. Good villain, great story. What makes a great villain is, perhaps, the knowledge that under similar circumstances, we ourselves might make the same choices. We see at least the potential for this villain in ourselves.

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Kurgan, I hope that is where they eventually go with Kylo. Right now he is just an annoying little brat, but I hope to see his back story explained in Episode 8 so that we realize he is actually the "tragic hero" that is very likable minus a single tragic flaw that eventually led to his undoing. If we aren't routing for him to turn back to the light by the end of Episode 8, they're doing it wrong.

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I don't want him to come back to the light. Or to want him be redeemed. I want him to go full dark. Piss yellow eyes and pale-white-grey-skin dark. Lightening from the fingertips dark. Slaying his own master and resuming total control of the first order dark.

 

Kylo should go beyond redemption. I don't care about why he is like he is. I care about his potential and his badassery that lies ahead. Not the reasons why he hated his dad, or why he was disenfranchised with Luke and the light. That's all moot.

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Were it my story to write, I'd avoid either extreme with Kylo. Piss yellow eyed dark side would, IMO, be boring and one dimensional. Snoke (like Palpatine before him) should fill that role. But we're past the point of tragic hero here also; the guy killed Han Solo, after all. I do think he should be conflicted, though.

 

Killing Solo should, far from solidifying his attachment to the dark side, should make his inner turmoil worse. I'd have him be absolutely wracked with guilt about it. Guilt he cannot quell no matter how many attrocities he commits. So much so that it causes him to hesitate at critical moments. He may even have a subconscious desire for Rey to kill him (explaining his poor handling of her in the last film) as a result.

 

Rey, for her part, will have no such compunctions. She goes whole bore to the light side. Truth, justice and the American way light. Thus, while Kylo is torn, she has no hesitations whatsoever, and as far as she's concerned, there's no consideration of redemption for the man who killed her uncle/father. So, in spite of Luke's warnings, it's a very quick whir and buzz of a lightsaber and Kylo's severed head bouncing off the ground. Just like that.

 

This would all be portrayed in a way that leaves the viewers as concerned for the future as satisfied with the present. The question being: has Rey truly beaten the dark side, or has she found another way to it. The question would be left open.

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Hard to explain. The question raised would be whether or not the ends justified the means. Unlike Anakin, Rey would demonstrate no "dark side" tendancies and would in fact have been an exemplary devotee to the light side up until then. She would thus be possessed of a moral certitude that Anakin lacked - notice his hesitation in killing Dooku. Anakin's struggle with this decision reflected the moral conflict we all knew was taking place inside him.

 

There would be no conflict with Rey, and not in the sense that Vader meant that "there was no conflict" when he said that to Luke. Rey would be calm, at peace and certain. Yet it would result in her not hesitating to be judge, jury and executioner when it came to Kylo, even as he was defenseless. Luke (who in this treatment survives to the end) raises the hard questions about tempering justice with mercy, and suggests that it might have been possible to redeem Kylo as it had been possible to redeem Anakin. But he would accept her decision and even declare her a full fledged jedi knight afterwords, something it's safe to say he would not have done were he concerned about her going to the dark side.

 

Beyond that, the film itself would make no judgements. The point of an ending like this would be to challenge the viewers, not spell it all out for them. This goes against the grain of the typically manichean outlook of the SW universe. That's why a conclusion like this won't happen.

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I like the little character outline you did there, Kurgan. That's the way Anakin should have been handled in the PT.

 

One question: do you think the notion of Rey falling to the dark side is compatible with the "girli-power" approach that seems to be adopted in TFA?

:rolleyes:

 

What.

 

In reading these threads, I've noticed a lot of you have a really odd interpretation of the idea of feminism.

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I don't think killing his father will increase his guilt. In universe an act like that makes you stronger in the dark side and resolution, not conflicted. With every act of destroying his former self and former life he becomes stronger and more committed to the dark.

 

I like your outline Kurgan, it's much more realistic... but this is Star Wars.

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Guest HantheMann

I hope Luke still has his green lightsaber.

 

I know he throws it away when he confronts the Emperor in ROTJ and I did not see him wearing it when drags Vader to the shuttle. But he is definitely wearing it when he returns to Endor for the Ewok Party.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

Were it my story to write, I'd avoid either extreme with Kylo. Piss yellow eyed dark side would, IMO, be boring and one dimensional. Snoke (like Palpatine before him) should fill that role. But we're past the point of tragic hero here also; the guy killed Han Solo, after all. I do think he should be conflicted, though.

 

Killing Solo should, far from solidifying his attachment to the dark side, should make his inner turmoil worse. I'd have him be absolutely wracked with guilt about it. Guilt he cannot quell no matter how many attrocities he commits. So much so that it causes him to hesitate at critical moments. He may even have a subconscious desire for Rey to kill him (explaining his poor handling of her in the last film) as a result.

 

 

I agree, Kylo shouldn't be conflicted, however, with each act that takes him to the "next level" of evil, I would like to see a pang of guilt or shame just before he does it, like he did with Han, and then he just does it and then further justifies his actions for the "greater good" (or evil). I really like the dynamic that he sees the light as the true evil, and actually fears falling to the "light side." It's a total inversion of Luke's journey, and by extension, Rey.

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I hope Luke still has his green lightsaber.

 

I know he throws it away when he confronts the Emperor in ROTJ and I did not see him wearing it when drags Vader to the shuttle. But he is definitely wearing it when he returns to Endor for the Ewok Party.

There was a big part of me that was worried that the filmmakers overlooked which lightsaber Luke was supposed to have. As a lightsaber fan I was really annoyed how the Special Edition messed up the very unique lightsaber sounds and the PRT rendered them unspecial.

 

But TFA specifically notes it's the saber Anakin used as well-- nd in the the script it specifically is described as Luke's FIRST lightsaber.

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I kinda hope maybe it opens somewhat like this:

 

The war has expanded greatly. Although the Republic capital was destroyed it's member systems all still exist and the destruction of the Hosnian system has finally opened their minds to the true danger of The First Order. Poe and Finn are two of the major fighters against The First Order, Poe because he is such a great pilot and Finn because he still has an understanding of how TFO works. Meanwhile Luke is training Rey but they are still essentially on the sidelines of the war. They've developed a father-daughter relationship (even if they aren't actually dad and daughter) and Luke keeps saying she isn't ready yet, although it's obvious she is. Luke just loves her too much to risk losing her. However a key First Order victory forces his hand and finally brings Rey and Luke into the fight.

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I dig that. It would be cool if Finn hasn't seen Rey-- but knows she is off with Luke. And he doesn't see her until the end of the first battle where she shows up to save his ass Jedi style and he has trouble seeing how much she's changed.

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Concept art had her doing a red/blue thing... but that was from the same dude who thought up the Anakin/Vader ghost. I don't think he knows how to Star Wars right.

 

But given that Rey used a staff, it would kind of make sense.

 

Don't get me started on her staff being a recycled Darth Maul staff.

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Would proficiency with a staff translate to proficiency with a double-bladed lightsaber? A regular staff doesn't sever your own limbs if you swing it wrong. Rey might have a hard time breaking habits developed over years of using a staff.

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Pavonis...

Lightsabers aren't real :p

Nothing will translate to proficiency with them, one blade or two. But since this is a make-believe movie, we use make-believe logic and it seems fitting.

 

Al the lightsaber twirling?I Not physically possible in real life with a weightless blade. Try twirling a short lead pipe like that...you drop it. Darth Maul twirling his lightsaber over his head? Not possible because there's no weight in the blades to keep it spinning. It would have flew out of his hands.

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