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Snoke is NOT Darth Plagueis


124 replies to this topic

#1
Driver

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I can't stop this in individual threads no matter how many times I post it-- so here it is on its own!

 

Here are reasons why this will not happen:

 

1. Because it's stupid

 

2. Plagueis may have books and comics or whatever else attributed to him, but in the new EU continuity*, his only canonical mention is Palpatine telling Anakin about him in some lovely, terrible PT dialog. Which leads me to--

 

3. Lucasfilm is distancing itself from anything Prequel related when possible. We got a few minor mentions in TFA, and it is still canon-- but it is obvious to everyone that Kathleen Kennedy and JJ Abrams were not fans. Nor was Kasdan. They will base no plot points or references on prequel era stories when possible.

 

4. At an Q and A during the last Star Wars celebration a fan asked if Plagueis was going to be in TFA and Lawrence Kasdan responded "What? No. Who is that? No."

 

They DO NOT care about the books or the PT. 

 

 

* = I admit as a not-expert in the EU canon, I may be wrong about this one.


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#2
Pong Messiah

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They will base no plot points or references on prequel era stories when possible.

What if it proves impossible to continue without Darth Plagueis The Wise?

 

Honestly, I don't care if he's Darth Plagueis or Darh Diggler. I just want him fleshed out in the next two movies like ESB Palpatine was by RotJ Palpatine. If he seems truly formidable and frightening, it'll be a big win, regardless of who he is or is not!



#3
Dark Wader

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I think it's pretty absurd as well but unfortunately I think its a theory that isn't going to go away anytime fast, if only because the soundtrack for the scene in RoTS and Snoke's theme are almost identical and people are reading a lot into that. 



#4
Lord Darth Hunter

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2. Plagueis may have books and comics or whatever else attributed to him, but in the new EU continuity*, his only canonical mention is Palpatine telling Anakin about him in some lovely, terrible PT dialog.

Can't this actually help the case for them being the same? The PT dialogue makes him canon, while the old EU stories attributed to him, plus his species and look, have been erased. So it gives the new filmmakers a chance to mold him into whatever they want.

#5
Dark Wader

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It doesn't make any sense for him to come back. I think it would actually cheapen Palpatine as a character to have him come back - it may have been a badly written scene but to me it conveyed how Palpatine became the Sith master without delving too deep into his history. He isn't an all powerful being so he manipulates those more powerful than he is to achieve his goal and casts them aside when he no longer has need for them (like he was about to do with Vader in Jedi).

 

Plus it wouldn't be very original on part of the writers. They can't think up their own bad guy, still need to rely on something Lucas offhandedly references in the prequels? Lame.



#6
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I love that this bothers Driver so much. People who subscribe to this theory are idiots and will be proven wrong ... oh so wrong ... in the end. And it's fun to watch their mental gymnastics in trying to make this plausible.
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#7
madddox

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He won't be Plagueis. But I'm betting he will be someone pretty similar in background and power.

 

Disney getting rid of the EU was a good and bad thing.

 

Good, because a lot of it was hokey.

 

Bad, because now they will cherry pick certain things that felt plausible and work them into the canon either thematically or metaphorically through various characters and situations. And you can't call them out on it, because it theoretically doesn't exist to Disney anymore.



#8
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That's why I was really hoping either the Solos wouldn't have kids or that none of them would turn Dark Side. If you're gonna be different BE different. So I wanted Kylo to be Luke's kid. Or Chewie's kid.

#9
Mara Jade Skywalker

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It is different from the EU. We spent years reading about Jacen Solo as this sweet, animal-loving, pun-making kid. We read about him becoming a hero and winning the war. He was poised to be the next Luke. 

 

And then they decided nope, he's gonna be evil now.

 

They planned Kylo being evil from the time the character was conceived. That's a lot easier to accept. 

 

 

 

But relevant to the topic at hand - Snoke is definitely not Plagueis. If he was, why change the damn name? None of the heroes know who Plagueis was. 



#10
Metropolis

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I love that this bothers Driver so much.

I don't want Snoke to be Plagueis either, but I would love to see Driver's reaction if it is.
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#11
Lord Darth Hunter

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Plus it wouldn't be very original on part of the writers. They can't think up their own bad guy, still need to rely on something Lucas offhandedly references in the prequels? Lame.

Seeing as how TFA was just one giant, bad CGI filled rehash of ANH, I wouldn't put it past them to not be able to come up with an original villain.

#12
Metropolis

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Maybe something like a race of beings not affected by the force. Now that's....... Eh not original.

This has airways been my worries about a sequel trilogy. Where does the story go? Can it get far without becoming tiresome? I liked the EU, but after a while it got tiresome. Another Death Star hidden amongst a cluster of black holes, ships that could collapse stars, Skywalker/Solo offspring turning to the dark side, Luke failing again and again at training Jedi.

#13
Driver

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This is actually very similar to when Star Trek was rebooted. The first movie and TFA have in common that they've kicked things off, given us the cast as they will be, gave us enough familiarity to make us feel at home and gotten a lot of winks and nods out of the way.

My biggest gripe about Into Darkness is that they had it set up-- they could have literally done anything. They had the time, money, and audience to be original as they wanted-- and they chose to remake Wrath of Khan.

Episode 8 better truly break new ground or I'm going to be really bummed.

#14
Lord Darth Hunter

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Anyone have TFA novelization? Another site posted a supposed excerpt from said novel of lines between Snoke and Ren that didn't make it into the film and I wanted to verify it:

"Kylo Ren, I watched the Galactic Empire rise, and then fall. The gullible prattle on about the triumph of truth and justice, of individualism and free will. As if such things were solid and real instead of simple subjective judgments. The historians have it all wrong. It was neither poor strategy nor arrogance that brought down the Empire. You know too well what did."

Ren nodded once. "Sentiment."

"Yes. Such a simple thing. Such a foolish error of judgment. A momentary lapse in an otherwise exemplary life. Had Lord Vader not succumbed to emotion at the crucial moment-had the father killed the son-the Empire would have prevailed. And there would be no threat of Skywalker's return today."


#15
Driver

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Interesting...

But the ANH novelization told us Owen was Obi-WN's brother. Just saying.

#16
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It is interesting but Driver has a point.

#17
Stevil

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If they don't care about the prequel era why are they making a prequel film in Rogue One??

#18
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It's not the prequel era people have a problem it's with how much those movies sucked a thousand asses.
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#19
Mara Jade Skywalker

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Rogue One is not a prequel era film. It's an OT era film. 



#20
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It's set before ANH so it's a prequel.

#21
Driver

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It's not about flippy twirly Jedi fighting a green screen while obtuse politics are debated, therefor...

It's a prequel by definition, but "prequel era" refers to something else, don't be difficult

#22
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I'm being honest. You can't say that the people don't care about anything before the OT when they're gonna make a film before the OT.

 

Whether they are attempting to try and replace some of what's gone on before remains to be seen. I believe they paid enough service to the PT era in TFA. a long time had passed in story time since then but it was referenced enough for me to be happy they haven't completely forsaken it.

 

Of course there will be more questions in "Episode VIII: The Force is Having it's Breakfast"

 

Just how will Rey's relationship with Luke be defined? Will it be Master and Padawan, or just Luke and Rey?? Will Snoke be confirmed as a 'Sith'??



#23
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I'm being honest. You can't say that the people don't care about anything before the OT when they're gonna make a film before the OT.


It's not that "people don't care about anything before the OT" because the Clone Wars and Rebels series have been very well received. It's that people don't care about things that suck like the PT did.

#24
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It is interesting but Driver has a point.


But even if it is true, all it says is Snoke is old.

#25
Driver

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I'm being honest. You can't say that the people don't care about anything before the OT when they're gonna make a film before the OT.


When I say the prequel era is dead to Lucasfilm, I don't mean anything that takes place previous to new hope. I specifically mean things that take place during the era of the prequel trilogy.

For almost a decade after ROTS came out, everything Star Wars related was branded with prequel era visuals for the most part. Toys, cartoons, games, models, toothbrushes, etc. Sure you could still get Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker toys-- but the brand was focused on the prequels from 1999 through 2013 when Disney bought the whole boat.

The first thing Disney did-- both to support the fact that TFA was going to be based on the OT was kill all of that. The last two years has given us more OT centric Star Wars than anything else. The TFA stuff just started in the last 4-5 months.

All the anthology movies announced thus far are technically prequels to ANH, but they are not taking place during the prequel trilogy era, as such they will take their stylistic cues from the OT, not the PT.



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