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The I've Seen The Force Awakens Thread (spoilers OBV)


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It's true. All of it.

I think he's named about famed podracer Ben Quadinaros.

One thing I also find funny is that with the prequels and midichlorians and all that stuff people complained that The Force lost it's mystery and mysticism. Well now we have Rey getting her powers "to

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Guest Domina Crystalli

Oh, Nightly. I can leave you for years at a time, but the Star Wars always brings me back.

 

Dogfights are awesome.

 

Nothing about the Starkiller made any goddamn sense, but I can suspend disbelief.

 

Kylo Ren is a pustulant little fuck.

 

Rey is going to make a badass Jedi.

 

I'm waiting for Luke to be like "welcome home, kiddo! Go say hi to your mom" and then Mara Jade walks out.

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Just want to add, I saw it a 2nd time today and it really is tremendous.


Watching it that 2nd time I'm convinced Rey isn't related to any known characters. Which is shocking to me, prior to seeing the movie I would have bet she was related to someone but now I really don't think she is.

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Just because they may be unknown at the moment doesn't mean they are irrelevant.

True, but at least to me, I'd genuinely like to see a neat character who literally does come out of nowhere. Not that there's anything wrong with the simple farmboy/pauper/rogue/scavenger who turns out to be long-lost royalty destined to save the world (or galaxy), but I'd be pleasantly surprised if the Force just chose her not 'cause of her highborn blood, but 'cause she's a genuinely cool/good person.

 

So, while I think it's far more likely ShadowDog is correct in his assumption, I'd like it if TheChoc is right.

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BB-8 recognized Poe's jacket. Pretty sure Artoo could recognize a voice. Also, remember the vision: Luke gave Artoo something.

 

Why would Rey dream of an island where Luke is if she's not a Skywalker? Why would the lightsaber call to her? Why would Daisy Ridley look exactly like a combination of Shmi and Padme? Why would they use the musical cue when Luke returned to the moisture farm (his call to action) when Rey calls the lightsaber to her hand?

 

I realize people want me to be wrong because they think I'm pathetic, but the clues aren't made up. *shrug*

I'm with you, there is too much pointing towards her being a Skywalker. They may have avoided referencing the prequels where possible but Adam Driver looks a lot like a Hayden and Harrison hybrid and like you said, Rey looks too much like Natalie Portman not to be related. And if this was a standalone Star Wars movie I wouldn't think she is a Skywalker, but the saga movies are all about the Skywalkers.

 

Also the X Wing helmet she was wearing earlier on the film to me was a another give away, I bet that's Luke's old helmet.

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I was glad they didn't ignore the prequels, and the references to it were appropriate and didn't seem forced.

What were they? Outside of Maz mentioning the Sith I didn't catch a single PT reference.

 

I loved it.

WHAT!? NO WAY!!!!!!!

 

I keep seeing people miss this, so posting it here:

Artoo only "woke up" once he saw Rey. He only gave them the missing part of the map once Rey arrived.

Luke programmed him to that. Why? It's not hard to figure out. He wasn't "hiding," he was waiting, too.

I think you're reaching for this one. I just don't see it. Rey and BB-8 weren't even in the same shot. If that was the intent of the story, then it would have been directed in a way that didn't leave it open to debate. There was no clear indicator of why R2 woke up when he did-- which I think is a problem.

 

As for whether or not Rey is a Skywalker... it is certainly telegraphed pretty hard. The fact that her visions were all moments from Luke's life is pretty on the nose. In fact, they were so on the nose I'd say it's TOO obvious... but then again, I'm the one that argued against people saying Palpatine and Sidious weren't the same by pointing out the pan to him at the end of TPM when Yoda is talking about the Sith. Sometimes a cigar is a cigar.

 

So if she is s Skywalker, I wouldn't be shocked. But I also wouldn't be surprised if she wasn't.

 

The one thing that makes it not work for me-- WHY was she ditched? She's not too far apart in age from Kylo Ben and the reason Luke went into hiding is because Kylo killed off his Jedi. Kylo didn't do this as a little kid. At the absolute most he did this maybe 5 years before the movie. Rey was left on Jakku at a much younger age than that.

 

Why would she be ditched before there was a credible threat to Jedi?

 

Adam Driver in particular absolutely kills it. I was afraid that a lot of what we'd heard in the trailers sounded kind of wooden and that he'd be obscured by the mask as well. Not only could he convey a lot of emotion through the mask, but he blew away everything Hayden Christensen ever did when it was off.

 

It's abundantly clear to me that this is the movie that JJ-- and to be honest, most everyone old enough to grow up on the OT, is what we wanted the PT to be. Kylo's portrayal is 100% what we should have seen with Anakin.

 

No overly on-topic save-your-wife choice and a split second flip of all morals. Kylo showed true conflict without having to say a word. His anger was unhinged and he had all this power, but no control-- and was ruled by pain and fear. Everything that was implied about Anakin becoming Vader in the OT was done perfectly with Kylo Ren.

 

 

This person's theory was that since they do this means Snokes = Darth Plagueis.

 

Ughhhh-- I wish this would just go away. Plagueis was a bad off-hand story told in the prequyels that was given shape in the EU. He won't show up in any way in the ST.

 

I saw a video of a Q and A and celebration with Ksadan and a fanboy asked him if Plagueis was in the movie. Kasdan's response: "What/ Who is that? No."

 

And NOT in a Jedi mind trick sort of way.

 

He has a lot of power that Vader never showed: holding blaster bolts and reading minds.

Vader plucked Leia being a Skywalker out of Luke's mind.

 

...and then Mara Jade walks out.

The very fact that she wasn't in the movie gives EU fans hope for another 3 years. UGH.

 

 

Also the X Wing helmet she was wearing earlier on the film to me was a another give away, I bet that's Luke's old helmet.

 

Wrong color insignia. :) I was looking for it.

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It's actually not Luke's helmet (according to the visual dictionary), but I don't think it's coincidental that she has an X-wing pilot's helmet and an X-wing pilot doll and Luke was the best X-wing pilot ever.

 

I get more and more convinced with each viewing. When she picks up the lightsaber, she's seeing Luke's memories - not memories tied to the lightsaber itself. Also, I have a feeling that Rey was not supposed to end up on Jakku, but another planet, and something went wrong. Maybe she was kidnapped? Ship exploded? Luke thinks she's dead, so he doesn't go looking for her. Perhaps her Force sense was masked and she only felt it once she was near the lightsaber? That's the "awakening".

 

The hug between Leia and Rey isn't a hug between mother and daughter. The look Luke gives Rey is TOTALLY a look of recognition. Also, when she first comes up behind him, he lifts his head, like he senses her.

 

The saga films are about the Skywalker family - Kathleen Kennedy has said as much. The hero has to be a Skywalker, and I really don't think she's Han and Leia's kid. Han and Rey had good chemistry, but it was more uncle/niece than father/daughter.

 

I need to write a blog post about this.

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The reference to the prequels was when Kylo mentioned using a Clone army instead of indoctrinated soldiers. I thought the planet we saw destroyed was Coruscant but turns out I was wrong on that, so not as many references as I thought. Though they did mention the 'balance of the force' at the start but that's probably stretching it.

 

But yeah didn't catch it was a different colour insignia. Need to give it another watch.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

 

As for whether or not Rey is a Skywalker... it is certainly telegraphed pretty hard. The fact that her visions were all moments from Luke's life is pretty on the nose. In fact, they were so on the nose I'd say it's TOO obvious... but then again, I'm the one that argued against people saying Palpatine and Sidious weren't the same by pointing out the pan to him at the end of TPM when Yoda is talking about the Sith. Sometimes a cigar is a cigar.

 

So if she is s Skywalker, I wouldn't be shocked. But I also wouldn't be surprised if she wasn't.

 

The one thing that makes it not work for me-- WHY was she ditched? She's not too far apart in age from Kylo Ben and the reason Luke went into hiding is because Kylo killed off his Jedi. Kylo didn't do this as a little kid. At the absolute most he did this maybe 5 years before the movie. Rey was left on Jakku at a much younger age than that.

 

Why would she be ditched before there was a credible threat to Jedi?

What are you basing the age difference between Rey and Ren on? Adam Driver is 32 and Daisy Ridley is 23. TFA is "roughly" 30 years after ROTJ, give or take. Who is to say that Ren wasn't born within a year after ROTJ, and was 20 when he turned, when Rey was between 6 and 10 when placd into hiding on Jakku? Thats a plausible age gap to me.

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...Luke was the best X-wing pilot ever.

Citation needed.

 

Luke is not Superman. He's not a perfect-being savior Messiah. He shouldn't be put on a pedestal. He's a fallible human; I suspect the burden of "saving the galaxy" with his "last of the Jedi" knowledge and skills (half-assed as it was) was just too much for anyone to live up to. I'd go running away from such overhyped expectations if people in the Republic, Rebellion, and Resistance expected him to save them from themselves all the time, too.

The hug between Leia and Rey isn't a hug between mother and daughter.

Let's hope not! Otherwise Han and Leia are horrible parents, looking to recover their wayward drug-abusing dark-side abusing son and ignoring their long-lost daughter.

The saga films are about the Skywalker family - Kathleen Kennedy has said as much. The hero has to be a Skywalker, and I really don't think she's Han and Leia's kid. Han and Rey had good chemistry, but it was more uncle/niece than father/daughter.

There is a Skywalker in the new trilogy; there's no reason to assume the Skywalker has to be a protagonist, though. It's just that you (and so many other fans) want it to be that way.

 

As for Rey's backstory, I hypothesize that it will either turn out to be a lie, or simply dropped completely in future episodes.

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Rey was supposed to be 5 or so when she arrived on Jakku (according to Daisy Ridley). According to the novelization, she's 19 during TFA. And I'm assuming she arrived on Jakku right after Kylo went back, which means he'd have to be older - at least a teenager. Right? Unless he just provided information to Snoke? Visual dictionary doesn't have an age on Kylo, but in that flashback scene he's pretty tall, which leads me to believe he was a teenager. He definitely looks older than 19 to me.

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So here's my feelings.

 

Short version--

 

Liked 80%, didn't like 20%

 

The didn't like portion was mostly one to many happy coincidence, a lot of unanswered questions, and a few missed opportunities. But to be 100% honest, I'm sure if I saw the OT for the first time as an adult I'd have the same issues with them.

 

Long version--

 

For the most part I was happy because it met my hope-o-meter requirements. It felt like a Star Wars movie, it wasn't completely terrible, and I was able to walk out not feeling utter disappointment. So it beat all the prequels.

 

It will be easier to say what I didn't like, since I did like most of it. But the true stand outs from the LIKE column:

 

It is easily the best looking Star Wars movie ever-- between the camera work, knowing when to use the right special effect for the intended scene, and the production design you couldn't have asked for a more perfect looking Star Wars look and feel.

 

Rey, Finn and especially Kylo Ren were GREAT. The characters fit perfectly into the universe, and the cast killed it. Poe was all right-- but he's like a Lando or a Wedge. He's there, he doesn't suck-- but there's nothing stand out about him.

 

Everything about Kylo Ren was great- like I said in my last post. THIS is what Anakin Skywalker should have been. Dark, powerful, but sloppy, undisciplined and reckless. Wecan SEE and FEEL his remorse and conflict thanks to an actor doing actory things-- but he never pontificates on it, and he never looks back. That is good writing and acting versus whatever bullshit we saw in the PT.

 

The story was fairly trite and old hat-- but Star Wars was never meant to be complex. I felt like YES, it did steal it's best moments from ANH-- but it was different enough, and told through different points of view that made it feel familiar and fresh-- which for a franchise movie, you want.

 

Mostly-- it was just FUN. More fun than a Marvel movie. I haven't had fun like that at a movie in years. Probably not since the first Iron Man.

 

As for what I didn't like...

 

I'll be the lone voice of dissension. I didn't LOVE Han Solo. I would have been cool with him if he was 20% less in the movie. I felt like he was a bit of a caricature at times. Less would have been more.

 

I didn't like Snoke. At all. Nothing about him stood out from being different from Palpatine. I'd have much rather the First Order have some old grizzled Imperial in charge. There was no need to have him be a dark sider. I think it would have been more interesting if, since Luke destroyed the Sith, that Kylo Ren was basically doing it all on his own and trained himself.

 

I liked Finn-- but how does he know how to fight with a lightsaber? Granted, he got his ass kicked both times, but how could he even stand for a minute against Ren?

 

SO MANY unanswered questions. Who are The Knights of Ren? Who/what is Snoke and how can he be powerful and that old looking and not have been around during the PT or OT? Who was Max Von Sydow? Hux yells about the Republic, then blows up a star system-- was that supposed to be Coruscant? The universe isn't that small. How the eff does a beam on energy go into hyperspace? How do they shoot the weapon more than once if they have to drain their own sun for power? How do they not all freeze to death and die once they destroy their own sun for one shot? How long has Luke been in hiding? What the hell is up with the Luke map?

 

Seriously-- if you work chronologically, Luke goes into hiding after Kylo Ren goes bad. He gives R2 a map to his location and somehow R2 goes back to Leia, but goes dormant. Part of that map is missing, and somehow Max Von Sydow has it. What's Luke's plan here? What's the point? If R2 is safe with Leia why can't he hold the whole map? If Luke doesn't want to be found until a certain time how does giving Max Von Sydow a part of the map separately ensure that will happen? IS it a coincidence he's on Jakku where Ren is? This is the JJ Abrams I don't like. As a writer he often times knows what he wants his final moment to be-- or even the middle. And the set-up is half-assed and if you really examine it, it makes no sense. Lost, Alias, and Into Darkness all have these overly complicated plots that are revealed out of order-- and if you put them in order, they make no sense.

 

Now-- I'm willing to let physics go for Starkiller base. At least the hand floating in space rumor wasn't true. It's not like the Death Star blowing up a planet from it's own orbit made much sense either. Also-- a lot of these questions might be answered in the next movie. After all, we knew Vader was a Lord of the Sith for 20 years before a movie came along with a canonical explanation of what a Sith was.

 

But the time between Starkiller's first attack, and the explanation of it in the briefing scene was an hour. And I was seriously bumped for that entire time trying to figure out who they blew up and why and how.

 

The other thing that really gave me trouble, is the HUGE handy coincidence that Han Solo just happened to be in the system where his old ship was currently living after it was stolen from him years ago, AND it just so happened to be the ship that Rey stole AND they just happened to bump into each other.

 

Really, ONE LINE could have fixed it. Han could have said they were in the system looking for his old ship and had tracked it that far. I could have bought just the one coincidence that it was one of the few ships on the planet available to Rey. I might have bought those odds. But the way it played out was just too handy.

 

And-- the entire sequence with Han on the freighter, the cgi monsters and the pirates was really out of place. It felt unneeded and like it was from a different movie.

 

And while I didn't hate bb-8 as much as I thought I would, I don't see how that couldn't have just been R2-D2.

 

That may seem like a lot-- but like I said. I think the OT defies physics, leaves a lot of things unanswered between films and plays with a lot of coincidence too, and nostalgia helps me over look them. I may sound like I am bashing the movie-- but for the most part, I really did enjoy it.

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As for whether or not Rey is a Skywalker... it is certainly telegraphed pretty hard. The fact that her visions were all moments from Luke's life is pretty on the nose. In fact, they were so on the nose I'd say it's TOO obvious... but then again, I'm the one that argued against people saying Palpatine and Sidious weren't the same by pointing out the pan to him at the end of TPM when Yoda is talking about the Sith. Sometimes a cigar is a cigar.

 

So if she is s Skywalker, I wouldn't be shocked. But I also wouldn't be surprised if she wasn't.

 

The one thing that makes it not work for me-- WHY was she ditched? She's not too far apart in age from Kylo Ben and the reason Luke went into hiding is because Kylo killed off his Jedi. Kylo didn't do this as a little kid. At the absolute most he did this maybe 5 years before the movie. Rey was left on Jakku at a much younger age than that.

 

Why would she be ditched before there was a credible threat to Jedi?

What are you basing the age difference between Rey and Ren on? Adam Driver is 32 and Daisy Ridley is 23. TFA is "roughly" 30 years after ROTJ, give or take. Who is to say that Ren wasn't born within a year after ROTJ, and was 20 when he turned, when Rey was between 6 and 10 when placd into hiding on Jakku? Thats a plausible age gap to me.

 

Rey was supposed to be 5 or so when she arrived on Jakku (according to Daisy Ridley). According to the novelization, she's 19 during TFA. And I'm assuming she arrived on Jakku right after Kylo went back, which means he'd have to be older - at least a teenager. Right? Unless he just provided information to Snoke? Visual dictionary doesn't have an age on Kylo, but in that flashback scene he's pretty tall, which leads me to believe he was a teenager. He definitely looks older than 19 to me.

That math supports it better than I realized. Perhaps Luke forsaw trouble and had her sent away right before Ren's attack.

 

I think we posted at the same time-- but I also said that Rey's vision were moments from Luke's life. That is the biggest clue of all. Like I said, I'm not disputing she's Luke's kid-- just wouldn't be shocked if it was a JJ Abrams curveball.

 

Why not reveal it? Assuming there will be a time jump between 7 and 8, is Luke going to train her and NOT tell her?

 

Also-- evidence against, Han and Leia would surely know who she is. Even if they didn't recognize her, enough of her story falls into place before their eyes. Even the intent was for them to be keeping a secret I think JJ would have shown us that with more pensive looks.

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