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The I've Seen The Force Awakens Thread (spoilers OBV)


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It's true. All of it.

I think he's named about famed podracer Ben Quadinaros.

One thing I also find funny is that with the prequels and midichlorians and all that stuff people complained that The Force lost it's mystery and mysticism. Well now we have Rey getting her powers "to

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Guest El Chalupacabra

This articles lays out 25 unanswered questions of TFA, and while some of this has been discussed in this thread, it is still interesting:

 

http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-the-force-awakens-questions/

 

What I thought was helpful was explaining the politics of the New Republic, Resistance, and the First Order, and how Leia was involved. It seems the New Republic didn't learn its lesson from the Old Republic, or listen to Leia.

 

 

It also raises a possible, and interesting, explanation as to how Rey can be powerful in the force, without being a Skywalker.

 

Also, it describes some cut scenes that explain why there were TESB era figures of Vader and Luke released for TFA, as well as how the rumor of the hand falling from space came to be.

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What I thought was helpful was explaining the politics of the New Republic, Resistance, and the First Order, and how Leia was involved.

 

They really should have simplified the political systems when they were planning all this. That's WAY too complicated even if they had bothered to explain it in the movie.

 

Han Solo: After the Galactic War ended, he married Leia Organa, became “a family man” (could they have had more than one son?) and “for a time – a successful racing pilot.”

 

Umm... racing pilot? Okay. Weird choice that.

 

C-3PO: The protocol droid has been with Leia pretty much since childhood (give or take a few years)

 

Well there's a definite continuity error if it finds its way into the movies. C-3PO doesn't know who Leia is. When asked by Luke who she is in the R2's hologram message, C-3PO can only describe her as another passenger on their last voyage and somebody important. He also says that he belongs to Captain Antilles.

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This commentary is playing out just like real-life family commentary over names.

Han: I really think we should name him Chewie, after my best friend. At least his middle name. He's kind of always been there for me.

Leia: **** that, I'm not naming our son after a walking carpet. Let's do something traditional, like Bail.

Han: Bail Solo? Worst name ever. I won't do it.

Leia: it has to be a traditional name. I'm royalty damnit.

Han: no Chewie, no Bail.

Leia: fine, be a jerk. What about Biggs?

Han: Biggs? You going to suggest Porkins next? Come on.

Leia: Well I like B names. Ben?

Han: I don't know, seems like Luke would want to name his kid that.

Leia: Luke's not having a kid, Han. Plus, I'm not talking about naming him obi-wa-whatever.

[3 weeks of bickering later]

Han: fine, whatever. I'm sick of this. Ben. Ok.

-------

Later, after son is born and named:

Luke [ANH whine]: but I wanted to name myyyy son Ben.

Chewie: ra rawr ra rop.

Lando: you know I helped save your ass, Han.

Love this! I can actually picture this conversation quite clearly.

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And I found only the fanboys in my office, the geeks like us, knew who the name Ben was referring to. Overall everyone else was just like, um, isn't it just the name his parents gave him? So I say Bail would've fallen under the same category of geekdom vs general audience awareness within the SW universe.

 

I dunno, I asked my Mum tonight after she saw it for the first time and she picked up it was a reference to old Ben from the originals, and she is far from a geek as anyone. Not assuming the majority of the general audience will pick it up, but definitely more than a reference to Bail.

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C-3PO: The protocol droid has been with Leia pretty much since childhood (give or take a few years)

 

Well there's a definite continuity error if it finds its way into the movies. C-3PO doesn't know who Leia is. When asked by Luke who she is in the R2's hologram message, C-3PO can only describe her as another passenger on their last voyage and somebody important. He also says that he belongs to Captain Antilles.

He's a liar: "There will no escape for the Princess this time."

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I saw this movie despite my oath to never acknowledge its existence. Some of you may remember that I've always been adamantly opposed to an episode 7. That being said, I didn't hate the movie like I thought I would. The movie was entertaining and did surpass my expectations in many respects, but for some reason I'm still having a hard time caring about anything post-ROTJ. I'm not blown away or as emotionally invested as most of you seem to be. To me, SW was the Anakin/Vader story arc, and I never understood fans' need for more SW. This is why I never got into EU. Jack and the Bean Stalk was one of my favorite stories as a kid, but I never felt the need for more stories set in the Jack and the Bean Stalk universe, or a desire to see the story continue after the giant's death. TFA just feels like an unnecessary add-on to me.

 

I've always believed that fictional worlds should be created for the sole purpose of telling a story. The story idea should come first, and the setting should grow out of that. The first two trilogies did this. Now it feels like we're getting new movies for the sole purpose of seeing light sabers and storm troopers on the big screen again. In short, Star Wars has become Star Trek.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

Quetz, the way you feel about episodes 7-9 is the same way I feel about any anthology film that is not about Obi Wan, which is to say the three we know about (Rogue One, Untitled Han Solo, Untitled Boba Fett). However, when those come out, I will be seeing them, anyway. Hopefully, even though they aren't needed, they will be enjoyable.

 

I just have to slightly disagree with you on Star Wars only being Anakin\Vader's story. It really wasn't Vader's story until the PT. Before the PT, Episodes 4-6 were really Luke's story. The PT made it a Skywalker story. Depending on who Rey really is, it still could be that, or we can just look at it now as Ep 1-3 is Anakin's story, Ep4-6 is Vader's & Luke's Story, and Ep7-9 is Luke's & Rey's story.

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It's entertainment its not religion. This talk of "need" is ridiculous. I NEED entertainment that will give me a two hour break from the voice in the back of my head cataloging in my life's failures. These movies will fit the bill nicely

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ANH's "lived in" universe full of props, costumes, droids and spaceships that were beaten up and aged and worn may have been done for character-- but it set a standard for "world-building" previously ever seen. The idea of writing a story that was intentionally supposed to feel like the middle added to this. Even as a kid, when I watched Star Wars I KNEW there was a huge universe full of stories out there. I may not like the EU, but I think its existence was a foregone conclusion. You can't look at Star Wars and not feel like there is more to it than just the story we saw.

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I just got back from watching it a second time, this time in IMAX. I'll echo many previous comments in what I'm saying. I enjoyed it even more this time. For me, I think a lot of that came from not being in suspense the whole time about how good it would be and worried about what would happen. I just sat back and was able to enjoy it more easily. I thought that Snoke looked better on this screen. I don't know how much of it was just the size versus the projector equipment being better in this theater.

 

Along the same note as that, the music definitely seemed better in this showing, which I imagine is at least in part due to it being a nice new theater compared to the first one I saw the movie at, which is nice, but nothing great. The only part I felt the music was really lacking this time was during the Resistance attack on the oscillator. Most of it was quite nondescript and even the better parts of it got buried in the sound effects. I guess that makes it a mixing issue just as much as a score issue there.

 

Overall, though, I enjoyed it so much this time around.

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It's entertainment its not religion. This talk of "need" is ridiculous. I NEED entertainment that will give me a two hour break from the voice in the back of my head cataloging in my life's failures. These movies will fit the bill nicely

 

I disagree. There is more to Star Wars than entertainment, although I think this point is lost on the majority of fans. Star Wars is mythology. I had to take a college class once that focused on Star Wars and how religion and mythology shaped it. These are not just movies in the same vein as Star Trek and the Avengers. Certain mythological motifs were intentionally placed in the first six films to illustrate the life cycle of the mythological hero, and the TFA, no matter how fun and entertaining it was, weakens those motifs to the point where they become ineffective. As a quick example, Anakin Skywalker's role in the overall saga was that of the world-redeemer. In mythology, the world-redeemer is miraculously born into a world that is fast approaching its apex in corruption and spiritual abasement. The actions of the wold-redeemer are to restore the universe to a golden age, and the cosmos thereby undergoes a kind of rebirth. But now we see in TFA that the galaxy is still just as f***ed up as it ever was, and it kinda makes you wonder what it was all for.

 

The Empire and its hold on the galaxy was a metaphor for what was happening inside Anakin. The first six films show a nice correlation between the Empire's authority and Anakin's corruption. The Empire only consumed the galaxy when the dark side consumed Anakin. The galaxy was only freed from the Empire when Anakin was freed from the dark side, etc. Stormtroopers and star destroyers, running amuck and causing terror all over the galaxy, were used to figuratively show Anakin's inner turmoil. But now we see that this stuff still exists after Anakin's death? This undermines the metaphorical role they played thus far in the saga. They lost their intrinsic meaning. Now they are just empty "things" that are only there because the story needed some antagonists.

 

Again, none of this is a big deal if your only concern is mindless entertainment, but it is frustrating for those of us that appreciated these movies on a deeper level.

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Pretentious? You wanna point out for me specifically what I'm saying that's false?

 

I remember back before ROTS was released, there was a thread here where people were speculating on who would kill Dooku. That should have been a no-brainer. Anakin was the Luke of the prequels. He was the character undergoing the same trials as Luke in the OT, but fails. Both are urged on by Palp to kill. But whereas Luke refuses to kill Vader, Anakin kills Dooku. It was kinda obvious that this was how it was going to play out. But for some reason that I will never understand, a lot of people were arguing that Mace Windu or Yoda was going to kill Dooku. They apparently couldn't grasp how having anyone else but Anakin kill Dooku would cheapen the story. Likewise, TFA cheapens the story that's been told in many ways. Its a fact. Not getting it doesn't make it untrue.

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But now we see that this stuff still exists after Anakin's death? This undermines the metaphorical role they played thus far in the saga. They lost their intrinsic meaning. Now they are just empty "things" that are only there because the story needed some antagonists.

 

Again, none of this is a big deal if your only concern is mindless entertainment, but it is frustrating for those of us that appreciated these movies on a deeper level.

 

Your observation will go nowhere with some who live through SW, and long before TFA's release, were psychologically prepared to race across social media to act as clean up squads for the shortcomings or wrongheaded decisions of TFA--or ANH 2.0 plot.

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Pretentious? You wanna point out for me specifically what I'm saying that's false?

 

I remember back before ROTS was released, there was a thread here where people were speculating on who would kill Dooku. That should have been a no-brainer. Anakin was the Luke of the prequels. He was the character undergoing the same trials as Luke in the OT, but fails. Both are urged on by Palp to kill. But whereas Luke refuses to kill Vader, Anakin kills Dooku. It was kinda obvious that this was how it was going to play out. But for some reason that I will never understand, a lot of people were arguing that Mace Windu or Yoda was going to kill Dooku. They apparently couldn't grasp how having anyone else but Anakin kill Dooku would cheapen the story. Likewise, TFA cheapens the story that's been told in many ways. Its a fact. Not getting it doesn't make it untrue.

"Not getting it" means you're not explaining your position well. I can follow you up to the conclusion that TFA "cheapens" the story. It's as if you expect history in the Star Wars universe to end with the Ewoks playing our heroes off into the the night. Did the Empire go "poof" and the noble Old Republic pop up immediately after Luke walked away from his mentors' ghosts?

 

The original trilogy story is legendary in-universe, now, with Luke nearly mythical in status, and Han Solo famous for being both a war hero and a smuggler. And somehow this continuation of the saga is cheapening the other films? Doesn't compute.

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The sequels don't cheapen the story, they just expand it. They are saying that your actions have far reaching consequences you could never forsee yourself. Anakin can't go off, kill a bunch of little kids, help blow up a planet and do tons of other awful things and then save his own sons life and have it washed away. The legacy of Anakin's turning to the dark side lives on in Kylo Ren. If anything this story makes Anakin's fall to the darkside more tragic.

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