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The I've Seen The Force Awakens Thread (spoilers OBV)


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It's true. All of it.

I think he's named about famed podracer Ben Quadinaros.

One thing I also find funny is that with the prequels and midichlorians and all that stuff people complained that The Force lost it's mystery and mysticism. Well now we have Rey getting her powers "to

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I keep seeing people miss this, so posting it here:

 

Artoo only "woke up" once he saw Rey. He only gave them the missing part of the map once Rey arrived.

 

Luke programmed him to that. Why? It's not hard to figure out. He wasn't "hiding," he was waiting, too.

 

Also, the cut to Leia after Han died was so brutal, but so awesome. I can only imagine what Luke felt...and after Starkiller Base was used. No wonder he looked so shell-shocked.

 

Agreed with Met - I was going back and forth the entire movie. I was positive Kylo was going to call her sister, But the Leia/Rey hug wasn't maternal, and the moment Rey and Luke shared wasn't uncle/neice, either. Once Artoo woke up, I leaned over and said "oh my god. It's because of Rey. He knows who she is."

 

Agreed with Stevil, too. I think either Han and Leia wanted to honor Ben because he's the reason they met, or they wanted to name him Luke but Luke said to name him Ben instead. Or, you know, they just liked the name.

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Ben's contribution to the rebellion shouldn't be understated. He facilitated the rescue of the princess and ensured that the R2 unit with the stolen Death Star plans made it to the Rebels intact. Which was his mission after all.

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What a gut punch in all of the right ways. I still feel like I need to wait a few days to see it one more time and to process everything, but right now I feel completely blown away.


Let's start with what was awesome.


The performances of the four new leads are just so awesome. Adam Driver in particular absolutely kills it. I was afraid that a lot of what we'd heard in the trailers sounded kind of wooden and that he'd be obscured by the mask as well. Not only could he convey a lot of emotion through the mask, but he blew away everything Hayden Christensen ever did when it was off. I'm so glad it looks like Kylo / Ben is going to be one of the main leads and arcs of this trilogy, the character and Driver are so good.


I feel like I can put John Boyega and Oscar Issac in kind of the same category because they were awesome with what they had to work with. I'd really been looking forward to what Boyega could do with this because he was so fantastic in Attack the Block. Finn seems like an awesome character, and he's certainly likable and charasmatic, but I wanted to spend more time with him and learn more about him. It feels like we're only scratching the surface, but I'm sure we'll find out much more about that later on. Issac as Dameron is also awesome, he's kind of Han Solo and Wedge Antilles combined into one character. I just wish we could also spend more time with him as well, but that's certainly coming.


I kind of feel like it's too soon to judge Daisy Ridley as Rey. For someone who was plucked out of obscurity for this top-billing role, she's stunning. But for all we still don't know about Rey, I feel like we haven't seen all she's going to offer with this yet. But for the Rey we do know at this point, Ridley is awesome.


The main leads are what I think I'm most impressed with, which is a huge, huge step up from the Prequels. As for J.J., I think he smartly restrained a lot of what he normally offers. He throws in a few flourishes and some of his trademark narrative trickery, but seems content to play solidly in the Star Wars sandbox. He mixed it up very well, as he walks the line almost perfectly in terms of offering something fresh and new, but still keeping true to the originals. I feel like I need to see it again to really process the directing and writing, but I am certainly initially impressed the first time around.


Also, let's talk about two of the biggest elephants in the room. If you're avoiding spoilers and just skimming, the next paragraph or two are the ones to avoid.


The Han and Kylo Bridge scene, while obviously a huge gut punch, was perfect. Harrison Ford felt like the version of himself in the 80's or 90's, and almost reminded me of his character in The Fugitive in how conflicted and distraught he was. Driver was just freaking amazing in how he came across as the same until he saw that the Starkiller weapon was almost ready and then lost it. I need a few days to process that whole scene because of emotional it was for me and everybody in the theater, but seriously, how long has it been since Star Wars was so effectively able to play with our emotions like that. That scream from Chewie was just damn disturbing.


The last scene with Luke and Rey was almost perfect. I love how the whole scene was essentially one from a silent movie, where all of your expectations and their acting work is doing all the talking. Hamill's expression kind of confirms to you what you've been suspecting all along, and Ridley seems to be doing the same. I'm skeptical of the last shot being a helicopter shot instead of having the huge ocean as a backdrop, but it's still as effective.


As for things I didn't like, I think it's time to go into the other room and talk about what we're going to do with Grandpa Williams. He just isn't really doing it anymore. The score is fine, but he's just not getting near the emotional heights he used to. The guy is a legend, but I feel like it's time for him to follow his pal Lucas and step aside and hand it to the next generation. The only new piece I can even remember is Rey's theme, and even it is pretty subdued.


There were also a few scenes where some extra editing couldn't have hurt. The brief vignette with Han, the pirates and those giant squid things was pretty cool, but ultimately didn't really add that much to the plot other than giving a chance for Han, Finn and Rey get to know each other better. The stuff with Maz Kanata was kind of cool in that we got to see a bunch of crazy stuff in her cantina, but she felt a little too close to the Prequels for my taste. I also think the last act of the movie drug on just a bit too long. Not excruciatingly so, but much of the stuff with Han, Finn and Chewie inside Starkiller Base could have been edited down a bit.


I do have some small nit-picks. I can't wait for Neil DeGrasse Tyson to tear this movie a new one, because the physics of how Starkiller Base works is crazy. If it's sucking up the energy mass of a nearby star, it should be essentially destroying itself in so many ways. Not really a big deal because you can obviously suspend belief for something like this, but it's still bananas.


But overall, yes, the hype is legit. It's as good as the Rotten Tomatoes score suggested. The past fifteen years of Star Wars movies that we endured simply because they were branded as such are effectively washed away. It has the fun and adventure of A New Hope, and the emotional gut punch of Empire. This is the real dal.

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As for things I didn't like, I think it's time to go into the other room and talk about what we're going to do with Grandpa Williams. He just isn't really doing it anymore. The score is fine, but he's just not getting near the emotional heights he used to. The guy is a legend, but I feel like it's time for him to follow his pal Lucas and step aside and hand it to the next generation. The only new piece I can even remember is Rey's theme, and even it is pretty subdued.

 

I agree. The score for TFA felt underwhelming. It was like I was watching Rebels or The Clone Wars where Williams' music is the inspiration and his themes are peppered throughout those series, but it's still someone else scoring them and you can tell the difference. It's a bad sign when his own score feels that way.

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I keep seeing people miss this, so posting it here:

 

Artoo only "woke up" once he saw Rey. He only gave them the missing part of the map once Rey arrived.

 

Luke programmed him to that. Why? It's not hard to figure out. He wasn't "hiding," he was waiting, too.

Not convinced it was Rey's presence that stimulated R2. Pretty sure that it was BB-8. He had the info on Luke's location.

 

Anyway, since when does anyone program R2-D2?

 

 

 

I was positive Kylo was going to call her sister, But the Leia/Rey hug wasn't maternal, and the moment Rey and Luke shared wasn't uncle/neice, either. Once Artoo woke up, I leaned over and said "oh my god. It's because of Rey. He knows who she is."

Maybe Rey is from some other family. There are more than just Solos and Skywalkers in the galaxy far, far away, aren't there?

 

Agreed with Stevil, too. I think either Han and Leia wanted to honor Ben because he's the reason they met, or they wanted to name him Luke but Luke said to name him Ben instead. Or, you know, they just liked the name.

Stretching. It's too obviously an homage to ANH to be a realistic choice for them in-universe. Though I'm sure there will be a series of novels depicting Ben's conception, arguments over the baby's name, the birth, his first tooth, and his subsequent turn to the dark side.

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I have to preface this by saying that the theater I watched this in had low volume and I was sitting in the back, so there were probably more than a few moments where the sound just wasn't driving home the emotional impact of a scene, so I can't really comment on the sound design or the score. Although the music never really struck me as being particularly memorable.
I'm still processing this and was doing my best to try and digest it all in one sitting, so I'll have to see it again to be sure, but my gut reaction is that it satisfied me. It felt like Star Wars is supposed to feel; like the originals, of course, but also that "feeling" when playing games like the Jedi Knight or X-Wing series; Where the galaxy is a sparse and mysterious expanse, where ancient Jedi mysteries could be lying in some distant recess, ready to be uncovered. Where Tie Fighters could come screaming out of the blackness of space. That perfect blend of alien exotic-ness and the clash of natural and synthetic. In the trailer the line about "it's all true... the jedi... etc" is really just the sheltered Finn and Rey characters acting starstruck after meeting the Han Solo; but it also serves as a kind of expectation reversal where the new characters look at the old "films" as unknown territory, while we (the fans) are ourselves now in unknown territory with this new era of the Star Wars galaxy... where events, "like poetry", as George would say, are playing out once again. But this time (and this was my strong personal impression) it felt far more like a dreamy fairy tale than the originals. Which is partly why I'm able to forgive the overt similarities to the original Star Wars. This has a delicate quality to it where it establishes the new mythos in very open-ended ways that hint and suggest, but seem to push the actual consequences of off until the sequels. All during which time the new glides effortlessly against a backdrop of old (thought some may fairly argue it's merely recycled)
That said, yes, this felt fresh enough to me. Yeah, there's a death star 3. A character in the briefing room even says something along the lines of "another death star?" The narrative shares the basic plot components of the original film and visually it's like an OT grab bag, but, to me, it functioned merely as a digestible, familiar backdrop for the introduction of new characters and lore. Would I have liked something more complex and non-death-star-3-y for the final conflict? Yeah, but was that really the main focus? I think it was the needed spectacle, but I think the actual point of crisis was the family confrontation and the obtaining of information regarding Luke's whereabouts. Were these end goals clear enough? Perhaps not, but that's the story they decided to tell: a distant continuation of the events of the original trilogy. So the film has to function as a jumping off point for both old and new. You have to create a situation that's an ultimate culmination of the war up until that point, while simultaneously pushing forward into the new "Force Awakened" galaxy; where the next installments are now completely free of the burden of re-introducing us to a galaxy far far away thirty-plus years later. And I think they will. Clearly there's a more specific, sinister agenda that Snoke has in mind. He is puppet mastering his own Order, I think, as opposed to Palpatine who was simply maintaining his grip and exercising total power over his domain. So I see a more personal battle of ideologies dominating future films (hopefully).
[uPDATE, for posterity: I don't know what I was smoking here. I think I was making the "needed" connection between trilogies way more complicated than it needed to be. In fact, there probably didn't need to be much of any connection at all... and I ended up arguing in reverse of what the movie actually does: which is explain too little with both the new and old elements of the narrative. The result of which is a sparse, non-committal mishmash of forces which are supposed to be driving the plot]
And I gotta say, this definitely deserves a screenwriting award. I think the real genius of Force Awakens is in just how much a cluster**** this could have been. You have to cover decades of missing Star Wars lore, tie up loose ends of old characters, make the audience feel for new characters, give the new main character a satisfying arc, show the audience something new (without overdoing it), show the audience some familiar elements (without overdoing it), and deliver it in a self-contained movie. It was a house of cards that could have fallen apart anywhere. And, honestly, the only scenes in the entire film where I wasn't completely sold were: the opening (I think they had to cram too much of Finn's motivation into a few minutes), the disjointed 'Han's wacky space mis-adventure' aside (were those creatures he was smuggling the things from the trash compactor in Star Wars?) and the 'Exposition Theatre' dialogue between Han and Leia (I get it, but it's never pleasant to watch)
I was surprised at how many of the basic elements they kept from the expanded universe and how simple they managed to keep it (maybe too simple, but I can understand how fine the line is where you start rapidly encroaching into convoluted territory) The Solo kid(s?), fallen Jedi pupil/Solo kid, the New Republic, an attempted new Jedi Order, the Imperial remnant. However, this is where I start getting foggy, and would have liked just a little bit more explanation about the state of the conflict as it is. Is the Resistance endorsed by the Republic? Are they a military branch? Is this a war over non-Republic controlled territories? [big one] Why, exactly, is the First Order so concerned with Luke Skywalker if he hasn't been doing jack **** for some considerable time? And what is their ultimate purpose beyond that? To get back the reigns of power? Then why is the First Order only attacking the Republic as a secondary target? I didn't really get what the nature of the struggle was beyond the First Order's newly acquired ability to blow up things.
[i realllllly don't know what I was smoking here. In my defense Abrams' 'manic/out-breath/fast-talky' directing style really (on first viewing) distracts the mind into thinking that character development is, in fact, occurring]
Anyway, to me, the most important element going in was: could they make me care about the new characters and the answer is overwhelmingly YES. Boyega has a lot of energy, and I'm very much interested in where Finn's 'indoctrinated galactic-lost-boy' story will go and how it parallels Rey's own abandonment. Daisy Ridley is fantastic, her story arc as Rey is subtle but transformative and satisfying. She starts off as a seemingly strong, self-reliant character whose world view is broken down, forced to confront her position and comes out stronger for it the end. Seeing her haphazardly discovering her force powers was great. And is she really just "nobody"?, no Skywalker lineage? If so, I'm cool with that since we already have the connection with Kylo Ren, and also because of how well her narrative is executed. I like the outsider coming into this family drama. I'm guessing that's one reason why Jakku wasn't just Tatooine. If she were a Skywalker there'd have been no reason to change the name. They just needed a visual parallel.
Adam Driver is f***in' badass. Vader possessed a calm, sinister poise that occasionally boiled over onto his subordinates. Ren is an emotionally volatile, tantrum throwing, walking darkside nightmare that I find endlessly fascinating (I was going to throw my shoe at the screen there for a second when I thought they had 'Maul-ed' him) That scene between him and Han was so perfectly executed, considering we never see Ren's fall (though we do see his final, full embrace of the darkside), we never see their relationship other than through exposition, and the scene still has a huge emotional impact. Again, a testament to the screenwriting; setting up the weariness of the conflict and the losses that accumulated over that time. What better way could there possibly be to establish how much of an unrepentant, evil, badass your villain is?
All in all, the new cast is great and I can't wait to see more from them.
So, really, I'll have to wait until subsequent viewings to decide which side of the fence I'm on; does the familiarity play to the film's strengths, allowing the new elements to really shine? Was it not pushed far enough? Could this film have sustained a more complicated plot structure? Do I need to go outside and get some fresh air? We'll see. For now, I'm happy... but everyone wants to be a cook in the Star Wars kitchen, so to speak.
Random musings...
I'm cool with Han's death, he went out causing mischief and trying to redeem his son. It all felt fitting. B'where'sis funeral? No one care 'bout Han? At least Leia sorta sensed him through the force, I guess.
Oscar Isaac is gonna be great when he actually becomes a character.
The film needed more of Max Von Sydow, or someone like him. Han is not a wise old sage, and no one else had the gravitas of an Alec Guinness.
What Luke actually means to everyone (and to the developing plot) isn't very clear to me. This conflict seems like it's been going on forever, what exactly will Luke's re-appearance change? And why now?
Damn, I'm not gonna lie, the fanboy in me really wanted Luke to pull the lightsaber out of the snow, but I understand how conveniently cheesy that would have been. And plus, the Rey vs. Ren fight was so, so, so, so, so cool. Might be my favorite lightsaber duel after ESB. I loved that it was a bit more complex and brutal than in the originals and not a ballet recital like in the prequels.
It seems like Luke could have easily been swapped for Han in the story, and they might have planned on that originally but didn't want Obi-Wan 2.0
More than enough lighthearted fun. This was totally a fun space adventure. My fears about this being too serious were quelled.
Harrison Ford was at least as much Han Solo as he was in ROTJ, so, yay. Success. And I was wrong, that wasn't him that Rey was crying over, but still, he's dead. So, suck it, biatches.
Carrie Fisher was a fine Princess Leia placeholder.
It would have been nice to see the original three characters together again. I know you can't have everything plot-wise, and I'd be totally cool with it not happening but I just didn't feel like they really drove home the importance of finding Luke. So it seems like they could have just as easily found Luke BEFORE the final act.
The wolfman, yeah! Ha.
I wish Superintendent Snoke was actually that big.
What's with the 'touching the lightsaber' flash-forward (?) have they already filmed parts of the next installments? What was the Knights of Ren thing, again?
I'm ok with Luke wearing Obi-Wan-esque common man robes, but if they continue using Tatooine garb as a warrior Jedi uniform for the new characters, I'm gonna crap a biscuit.
I looooved the use of force powers in this, it had a real tangibility and intensity to it.
Simple fix/replacement for Death Star 3.0: Opening title crawl: "...In their search for the last Jedi, Luke Skywalker, the First Order has launched a series of surprise attacks on outer rim planets. Fearing a direct, full invasion of its core worlds the Republic... blah, blah, blah..." The end of the film is now just a preemptive attack to stop said invasion and or destroy a devastating weapon (that can't blow up planets but will certainly kill a lot of people), or like some have said here, to lure the Resistance and or Luke Skywalker into a trap. That took me five minutes to think of and I'm not even getting paid to do this.
Anyway... 7.7/10, on par, maybe better than ROTJ, better than all the prequels combined. Would recommend. Will add/revise more as it comes to me.
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Jawa aren't indigenous to Tatooine as far as I'm aware. They are nomadic.

 

I disagree with you on the screenwriting award and I will write my own post to say why at some point. Too much borrowing for me.

 

I loved the comparison with the Trash Compactor Alien. Good shout :)

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I disagree with you on the screenwriting award and I will write my own post to say why at some point. Too much borrowing for me.

Abrams is doing his best to make TFA the most Star Wars-like installment since 1977. To do that, he may end up emulating plot points and emotional beats from ANH throughout this film

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As for things I didn't like, I think it's time to go into the other room and talk about what we're going to do with Grandpa Williams. He just isn't really doing it anymore. The score is fine, but he's just not getting near the emotional heights he used to. The guy is a legend, but I feel like it's time for him to follow his pal Lucas and step aside and hand it to the next generation. The only new piece I can even remember is Rey's theme, and even it is pretty subdued.

 

I agree. The score for TFA felt underwhelming. It was like I was watching Rebels or The Clone Wars where Williams' music is the inspiration and his themes are peppered throughout those series, but it's still someone else scoring them and you can tell the difference. It's a bad sign when his own score feels that way.
Is that his fault or JJ's? If JJ wants a score to bring emotion to a scene then he asks for it. Or he asks for the scene to take precedent and let the music accompany it. I'm betting on the latter.

 

I heard a lot of themes that borrowed from the originals, but nothing stood out. For the prequels it appeared as if GL asked for booming themes that added emotion to the scenes. "Anakin's Betrayal" adds emotion to the Order 66 scene. "Love Pledge and the Arena" is more memorable than the scene it accompanies.

 

The Soundtrack is available for streaming so I'm going to listen to it to see if can pair it up to a scene in my head.

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Metropolis, you are correct. It may well have been JJ Abrams who directed Williams to make the score like this. During Celebration VII this past April I attended a panel where they discussed the music to ESB. They talked about how Lucas and Kershner sat in with Williams to go over where there should be music and where it should be silent and what type of music should play. So this may be JJ's interference that brought Williams down.

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That was awesome! All the things that worked have been covered so just a few gripes.

 

Very disappointed that Ren is Han and Leia's son rather than Luke's. That's EU shit man. Forge your own path!

 

Speaking of Luke ... him not being in this film didn't work for me on a fanboy level because he's my favorite character but it also doesn't work on a characterization level either. So ... you fucked up and you make up for that by sitting on your ass while the universe burns? Wow. Some hero you are.

 

Weaksauce.

 

I'm a little confused by people putting Poe on the same level as Finn and Rey. He was barely in the movie. He's cool and all (love him mocking Ren early on) but he had maybe 20% their screen time.

 

BB8 is definitely the Scrappy.

 

Agreed 100% on Captain Plasma being the new Boba Fett.

 

Anyone else notice that a lot of the lines from the trailer didn't make the final cut?

 

Still a great movie. Has me very excited about the next two.

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I'm listening to the Soundtrack right now and I must say that it pretty good. Not as booming as any of the themes for the PT, but effective nonetheless. I'm wondering if it the way it was mixed. I'm going to see it again in an hour so I'll see if I notice it more.

 

Ep. 8 prediction.....Snoke is taller than Yoda, but shorter than Luke.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

Funny that they'd name him Ben. Leia didn't meet Kenobi and Han hardly had a deep emotional connection to Obi-wan. Why would either of them choose that name for their son? Maybe Like got naming rights?

 

Doubtful that Rey is a Skywalker. I'm betting the new female lead in VIII may be one, but there's no reason to think there has to be a female Skywalker in the galaxy far, far away. What happened to the idea of Rey being a Kenobi?

Well, we DON'T know who Rey's parents are who left her behind. In fact, we didn't get a last name.

 

While being descended from Anakin doesn't necessarily need to be a perquisite for being strong with the force, Rey has some uber power going on, and seems more powerful than Luke at the same age and with the same level (or lack) of training. I am betting she is a Skywalker, through Luke, or possibly Leia, and she was place on Jaku to be in hiding for some reason.

 

Mas I believe telegraphs her origin as being a Skywalker, with their conversation of "looking ahead, and not behind," and urges her to seek out Luke.

 

Also, for Episode 8, do we even know who the female lead is? I would venture to speculate maybe it is Rey's mother, or possibly sibling.

 

As for Leia, she certainly knew OF Obi Wan through her father (he was her only hope, remember?). Luke had an instant bond with Obi Wan. Even Solo had a grudging respect. Hero of the republic, and saving Luke,Leia, Solo and company earns a kid named after you, I SUPPOSE.

 

 

Finally, a random though. I wondered where the name Kylo came from. Could it be from SKYwalker and SoLO?

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Also, for Episode 8, do we even know who the female lead is? I would venture to speculate maybe it is Rey's mother, or possibly sibling.

 

As for Leia, she certainly knew OF Obi Wan through her father (he was her only hope, remember?). Luke had an instant bond with Obi Wan. Even Solo had a grudging respect. Hero of the republic, and saving Luke,Leia, Solo and company earns a kid named after you, I SUPPOSE.

 

Finally, a random though. I wondered where the name Kylo came from. Could it be from SKYwalker and SoLO?

 

I doubt the new female lead in VIII will be Rey's mother, since they're casting for women scarcely older than Daisy Ridley. Maybe a sibling, if the female lead is even human.

 

I figure KY + LO is from Skywalker and Solo. Another one of those ideas that is hard to believe as arising organically from in-universe decisions and motivations. Much like "Ben" Solo.

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While being descended from Anakin doesn't necessarily need to be a perquisite for being strong with the force, Rey has some uber power going on, and seems more powerful than Luke at the same age and with the same level (or lack) of training.

Not to mention Kylo Ren. While he does have training, it was still surprising to see the demonstration of his own uber power...the way he is able to hold a laser in mid-air for that long amount of time (while also concentrating on other things going on around him.) It was one thing for Vader to block lasers with his hands, but to stop them in their tracks and just hold them up like that?

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I'm listening to the Soundtrack right now and I must say that it pretty good. Not as booming as any of the themes for the PT, but effective nonetheless. I'm wondering if it the way it was mixed. I'm going to see it again in an hour so I'll see if I notice it more.

 

Ep. 8 prediction.....Snoke is taller than Yoda, but shorter than Luke.

I saw this posted at a different site: "Listen to the track titled Snoke on TFA soundtrack. Then listen to Palpatine's Teachings on the Revenge of the Sith soundtrack. They are exactly the same. Palpatine's Teachings is where Palpatine told Anakin the story of Darth Plagueis. I've played both tracks at the same time, and cannot tell the difference between the two."

 

Can you tell us if this is true? Do those two tracks sound the same? This person's theory was that since they do this means Snokes = Darth Plagueis.

 

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He has a lot of power that Vader never showed: holding blaster bolts and reading minds. But he's a pretty poor fighter.

 

I'm assuming/hoping that Rey received some type of training early in life, otherwise she's perhaps the most powerful Force user we've seen. Strong enough to block Ren's mind reading and to Jedi mind trick a Stormtrooper without any training at all is a bit too much.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

 

 

While being descended from Anakin doesn't necessarily need to be a perquisite for being strong with the force, Rey has some uber power going on, and seems more powerful than Luke at the same age and with the same level (or lack) of training.

Not to mention Kylo Ren. While he does have training, it was still surprising to see the demonstration of his own uber power...the way he is able to hold a laser in mid-air for that long amount of time (while also concentrating on other things going on around him.) It was one thing for Vader to block lasers with his hands, but to stop them in their tracks and just hold them up like that?

 

Yeah, noticed that, too. But we haven't seen anyone hold a laser blast. Doesn't necessarily mean Vader or other jedi or sith couldn't do it, but he still seems pretty powerful. He is credited with killing off Luke's other pupils. Although, it is interesting that Rey instilled fear in him.

He has a lot of power that Vader never showed: holding blaster bolts and reading minds. But he's a pretty poor fighter.

 

I'm assuming/hoping that Rey received some type of training early in life, otherwise she's perhaps the most powerful Force user we've seen. Strong enough to block Ren's mind reading and to Jedi mind trick a Stormtrooper without any training at all is a bit too much.

Well, Snoke said he needed to "complete his training." So, maybe he's more raw power, than skill. Much like Anakin.

 

Another thing...I liked how Ren feared being "tempted" by the light side. Sort of a play on being tempted by the dark side. I wonder if Kylo's story will end up being an inverse of Vader's: where he is the chosen one for the dark side, and "falls" to the light?

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True, we haven't seen anyone else try to do it, but we have seen a situation where Vader was torturing someone to get information that it seems like Ren could just pluck out of her mind.

 

I'm also calling it: Ren dies in Episode 9. Snoke kills him. Ren's storyline is a drug abuse story. He's been tempted, he's turned his back on his family, and that's what kills him.

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Although, it is interesting that Rey instilled fear in him.

 

 

I loved that. It directly references Yoda's famous fear lines. It would make sense that, while everyone around him is scared sh!tless of Ren, another strong Force user would be able to sense the fear that truly makes him be the way he is.

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Just to clarify ... it wasn't stated that Ren killed all the other Jedi, just that he "tore it all down"

 

Maybe he turned all or most of the rest?

 

I don't know why it bothered you Fozzie that Rey is so powerful with no training. Movies and tv shows always follow the best of the best. Breaking Bad would have sucked if Walter was the 37th best meth cook. The most interesting stories are about the best of the best.

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