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The I've Seen The Force Awakens Thread (spoilers OBV)


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I don't think we'll see it onscreen because people are stupid and can't handle that--yet--but I really hope they at least let Poe be canonically gay/bi. With all the backlash Aftermath got for having a gay protagonist, it's time we have one onscreen. (I will also accept Sabine from Rebels being gay.)

 

Yes, I'm getting social justice in my Star Wars, deal with it.

You will not see that onscreen because Finn and Poe are not gay. Finn is clearly straight, and no one is even thinking of Poe's sexuality at all. On that note. any attempt to deviate from what was laid out on screen is social engineering for reasons not supported by the character development.

 

Describing those who do not wish to see that as "stupid" says more (and it is not a compliment) about those attacking, than anyone with no desire to see straight characters turned gay/bi.

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I don't think the lightsaber itself is magical so much as it is a symbol to Rey.

 

Luke: What's in there?

Yoda: Only what you take with you.

Eh, but the cave was the environment / catalyst for Luke's experience--it just tapped into his fears. The weapon did not create that in the way TFA has it generating visions. It would have held up to continuity if the room where the weapon was stored had some connection to the Force like the Dagobah cave.

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People reading any romance into Poe/Finn or Rey/Finn are obviously projecting their own expectations into the screen. There was nothing there. Not everything has to be about sex. Finn and Rey both bonded instantly with BB8 as well, are we going to be getting those theories?

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I bet there's some fanfic about that.

 

Funny, I just read Rainbow Rowell's "Carry On" a few weeks ago after reading "Fangirl" earlier this year. Who knew faux Harry/Malfoy fan-fiction could be so fun?

 

Anyway, if I were so inclined, I'd write the slash fiction between Kylo Ren and Poe. Just what did Kylo Ren do to the bound Poe to get him to reveal where he put the map? The mind wanders.

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Stupid question, but how did this manage to get a PG-13 rating? Especially considering the much more violent Attack of the Clones got a PG rating. Though I never understood how that movie managed to squeak in that rating with the limbs and heads flying all over the place.

 

Were Kylo Ren and that random stormtrooper in the beginning's blood really that much of a deal breaker or have things just gotten a lot tighter in the last dozen years? Because this felt pretty tame to me. The blood and a couple impalings by lightsaber were the only things that remotely warrant upping the rating.

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Blood and meaningful death, I think. But, yeah, I told my wife that I don't think it deserved PG-13. I wouldn't show it to my 2 year old, but 13 is a bit old. PG would be fair.

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Great video review here, I agree with he everything says.

 

http://geektyrant.com/news/max-landis-hated-star-wars-the-force-awakens-watch-his-video-rant

 

 

 

Wouldn't go as far was saying I agree with everything he says. I don't think Rey is a Mary Sue. But he's touched on a basic flaw of the movie in that Rey simply isn't earning her power. It's just coming to her. If this can be said to be a hero's journey, that's a fairly major oversight as the struggle is where the power of the story can be found.

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It didn't bother me that much, but there are different type of desert terrains than giant rolling dunes they could have used. Eh, hindsight 20/20 and all that.

That's what bothers me regarding Abrams' lack of imagination. Just because you want to have a planet that has a desert, did you have to find a location that looks exactly like Tatooine? Arizona's desert looks way different from the Sahara. Why not go with something like that?

 

It brings me back to thinking Abrams said the right things, the things fans wanted to hear. But didn't do them.

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How does Luke earn his power where Rey doesn't?

 

Loss of his aunt, uncle, Ben Kenobi, his friend (Biggs), his co-pilot that acts like he did in the original film (Dack), his hand, his innocence and trust in Ben ("I am your father"), being willing to sacrifice his life instead of turning to the Dark Side, training with Ben and Yoda, having to learn to trust the Force and his feelings in the climax of A New Hope, having to rely on others to save him at several points, touching the Dark Side in his final battle with Vader, making a mistake and going to Bespin to fail against Yoda's advice, again being willing to sacrifice his life instead of turning to the Dark Side.

 

Luke's progression is slow, has plenty of stumbling blocks, and heavy consequences should he fail.

 

Rey's progression is fast and effortless. Outside of losing Han, which effects her less than several other characters, it's been a pretty smooth road for her. She doesn't really need to rely on others much (she rescued herself from her one sticky situation).

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Well, first, this is just one movie. A lot of those things Luke did in ESB and ROTJ. After he'd been trained. Rey still hasn't trained yet. Luke tapped into the Force and blew up the Death Star and nobody says that's over-powered.

 

Rey also has been living on her own for close to 15 years, so I don't understand why people say she's too good at everything. She HAS to be good at things, or she'll die. (She's also not that great at flying the Falcon, and is only good with a lightsaber because she's using it like she'd use a staff. I wouldn't be surprised if her actual lightsaber is a double-bladed one.)

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I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who did not care for this movie.

I found it to be fun-- but honestly, the faults people point out are for the most part valid. It was just so much more heart than the PT that I'm good with it.

HA!


I know TFA is super flawed and I am cutting it slack. It's very simple-- it feels like Star Wars and has likeable characters. Guess that's all I needed.

AND THE PT COULDNT MANAGE IT

 

Huh. My upcoming review will be focused on the fact that I felt it had hardly any heart (apart from Han Solo) and did not feel like Star Wars, even less than the prequels. Still, as a movie, it was obviously much better executed than the prequels were. The problem is, it just didn't feel like Star Wars to me. It's good as a movie, but not as a Star Wars movie.

In fact, the ironic thing is, my lest favorite film in the entire saga--The Phantom Menace--is the one film outside of the original Trilogy that has the strongest Star Wars feel to it. But as a film on its on Merritt, it's terrible.

 

As a retelling of the original Trilogy, it was pretty blatant, and not very good at that, in my opinion. Not like, say, KOTOR, which reimagined the original Trilogy in a manner that was entirely fresh and new, to the point where I did not realize that was what it was until years later. Sure, the formula is there and has proven successful in the past, but if you can't do it in an original enough manner, people will notice.

 

As I said, it was a reason for me not to want the movie made. As a fan, I was quite happy with my novels. To have them taken away from me and told the hundreds of hours I put into them, and the thousands of hours these artists took to create them, were now to be forgotten as never happening was something that upset me.

 

I understand why they would do it. Looking at the weekend actuals now it seems the movie made $247.9 million over the weekend. Obviously Disney made more in a weekend than they ever would from licensing books and comics. But artistically, I don't believe it was worth what they sacrificed to make this movie.

 

I've read more EU books than I can count. I would gladly take TFA before any of them, even the Thrawn Trilogy. They took the best aspects of the EU and made them even better, and took the worst aspects (Jacen turning dark) and made them good. And now I can pretend that Crucible never existed.

 

Agreeing with Poe here. Not agreeing with Mara. What they did is called plagiarism. It's legal plagiarism, surely, since they (Disney and Lucas Film) own all of those EU stories, but plagiarism nonetheless. Stealing things you did not create and wrapping them up as your own ideas is the definition of plagiarism.

 

I was not a huge fan of the Legacy of the Force book series either. Jacen's fall to the dark side was not the best storyline ever told within the EU. But, in my opinion, Kylo Ren's was not any better. This is why I cannot get into this alternate universe: too much of the same, presented as new. Been there, done that. No thanks. I will stick with the EU.

And this name was Ben? Ben? Like Luke's son, Ben Skywalker? Out of all the names they could have chosen, they went with Ben?

 

Before I went to see the movie, I wondered if there would be one outrageous moment that would cause me to walk out of the theater, and the "Ben" reveal was nearly it. I only kept seated because I knew that the movie was nearly over, and walking out now would be pointless, so I might as well watch it to the end (even though we all knew how it would end, I think). I tried to contain myself at each point of EU retreading, but at this one, I couldn't contain myself, and several people around me noticed and chuckled. As I drove home, I kept screaming, "Ben? Ben!" I was quite angry.

Anyway, I will soon be coming out with a video review, which I intend to share on my Facebook page. Not sure if I want to upload it to YouyTube or not, since all I currently use my account for is to subscribe to videos, but in either case, it will be my first video review. I'm looking forward to it.

And let it be said that I do not begrudge any of you for enjoying this movie. I'm glad you enjoyed it. It simply isn't my cup of tea, and I will not be seeing any further movies, nor will I purchase this film on DVD or Blu-Ray. This was the experience I would use to decide whether or not I will continue to keep up with the new Star Wars films (of what I consider to be an alternate universe), and my experience has determined that I will not be doing so. I'm an EU fan, which I've always enjoyed more than the movies and is probably the sole reason why I am still a Star Wars fan, and I will stick with the original universe.

May the Force be with you.

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Even if we just include the original Star Wars. Luke's mainly rescued. In fact he spends the first 3/5 of the movie as pretty much just a burden. He's looked down upon by the denizens of the Cantina and by Han. When he brags about his status as a pilot he's laughed at and made to sit down and be quiet by Ben. His big moment rescuing Leia is stepped on when she points out that he's short. He's told not to get cocky when he manages a good shot at a TIE fighter. Even his big moment at the Death Star is coaxed along by Obi-Wan. And, again, he loses Owen, Beru, Ben, and Biggs throughout the movie. Heck, even R2 is temporarily lost to him.

 

Luke's emergence within that movie is slow. One step forward, two steps back. His first proactive decision, rescuing Leia, starts off with a clever plan, but is not thought through to an exit strategy and is mocked by both Han and Leia. He becomes confident enough to condemn Han's recklessness both in the trash compactor and when Han chases after a bunch of Stormtroopers. Of the five main heroes, he's portrayed as the weakest, least capable, and least experienced, which he is. His breakthrough moment where he embraces the Force directly built by his teacher's instruction who is even at that moment holding his hand AND Han swooping in at the last minute to save his butt.

 

Comparatively, Han likes Rey within a short time of meeting her. She kicks Finn's butt when they first meet (trained Stormtrooper everyone). She saves herself from capture without much difficulty. Kylo Ren's running around warning people that if she's not caught immediately, she's going to grow more and more powerful. She takes out Kylo Ren on her own.

 

Tell me where she earned any of that?

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The bad--

 

Han. The most hollow, heartless, desperate grab for pathos in a movie death since Kirk in the God-awful Star Trek: Generations. Adding to the disaster was that his arc was telegraphed with a Falcon sensor dish-sized megaphone--and all with a piss poor set up. First, the Ren issue sent him back to a life of crime? That makes him seem immature in the extreme and robs the character of his logical progression built in ESB/ROTJ.

 

Hell, Obi-Wan arguably lost more by his own friend / surrogate son turning evil, destroying his friends, ancient organization, and ultimately contributing to the galaxy falling into the grip of the Sith, but he did not lose sight of his own growth and sense of purpose.

 

Next, with Han feeling like a failed parent, his every line or expression regarding Ren just screamed, "I will have to see him again," and of course, no one thought he was going to survive the encounter.

 

Its as though no one had a concrete idea of how to use Han in this new trilogy. In other words, if he's not the gunslinger of ANH, they cannot imagine how he could mature into a truly responsible man and leader (ignoring the aforementioned ESB/ROTJ growth).

Really? Ironically, I thought Han was the one this this movie got right. Harrison Ford played an excellent Han Solo, in my opinion, and was the only bit of Star Wars feel the movie had. But you've got a point about his past. It's stupid that a morally redeemed Han would return to a life of crime.

 

But hey, you know who doesn't do that? EU Han! :p

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