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The I've Seen The Force Awakens Thread (spoilers OBV)


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Once they find Luke's location why doesn't Leia go ? Why doesn't Chewie get out of the Falcon ? Is he that pissed off with Luke ? You would think that Leia would want to see her brother again after all of these years.

Well the real reason is that it works best visually and storywise to have it be just Rey.

 

But if you want to get all in story I'd think Leia would have alot to do. The capitol of the Republic was just blown up and they protected the Resistance, so she has her work cut out for her.

 

But again, its really the first thing I said.

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One thing I am finding really interesting about Kylo Ren:

 

Friends who I'd describe as SW Fans, (the type of people who have seen every film in the OT more than 5 times who were salivating for TFA) universally love Kylo Ren. Basically echoing a lot of the comments we've seen in this thread about how Driver does a great job in the role and this is the "Anakin we've been waiting for."

 

Friends who I'd describe as SW Victims, (the type of people who don't dislike SW, but only went to TFA because their SW Fan-friends dragged them) universally despise Kylo Ren, saying Driver did a crap acting job, that Ren is an even worse, whinier bitch than Anakin. It's essentially, "Anakin sucked, why did they have to go double down on him?!?"

Think the "Victims" are closer to the mark. It's hard to see how Kylo Ren is not an echo of his grandfather. Han even deliberately says as much at one point. Itself a recycled line from Aunt Beru.

 

It's also hard to see how people who didn't like Anakin in the Prequels give this new character a pass. Romantic plot aside, you could almost swap out the two actors and characters into each movie and they'd both be basically on the same. If anything, I give a bit of credit to Christensen for being a stronger presence and menacing figure. Yeah he whined too, but when he got pissed you knew it. And you knew someone, probably several someones, would soon be dead.

 

I'm not sure if it was intentional or not, but Kylo Ren really shrank as the movie went on. To the point where I could swear he looked skinnier in his costume. Taking his mask off, as well, diminished him. Where he originally seemed above General Hux, he then fell to parity, and by the end he was most definitely subordinate to him. Even his breakthrough moment, killing Han, where we can assume that he intentionally stepped over a line that he can't re-cross, not long later he's shouting about a traitor and losing lightsaber duels.

 

It's already difficult to take him seriously as a villain. I can only hope that it's intentional and that a greater, less conflicted villain will emerge in the next movie who will push Kylo Ren closer to re-embracing the light. It wouldn't greatly shock me if the conclusion fo the next movie is Kylo Ren's return and the third movie has him making amends.

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One character was supposed to be a super strong Jedi and a hero. The other is a childish wannabe Sith. They may behave similarly, but one of them fits the description given by the film, the other didn't. Plus the only acting Hayden can manage is trying really hard to poop.

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Kylo Ren is a poser. Rey even called him out on it, and Snoke mentions he needs more training. A different kind of villain than we've had, an Anakin/Vader wannabe.

Yes. Thank you. I had that exact argument with a "victim" last night. She just didn't get how this "all powerful" bad guy could be all whiny like Anakin, while displaying very few of his actual "chosen one" powers. I was taken aback, since the movie made it very clear he wasn't all-powerful, and asked where she heard he was the chosen one. Not every whiny dark-sider is Anakin, people!

The only acting Hayden can manage is trying really hard to poop.

Well, to be fair, he does a really good job at it.

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Plus I think Snoke is purposely keeping Ren less powerful than he can be. Like Han said, Snoke is just using him. He doesn't want him super powerful, just powerful enough to suit his needs. The reason he is going to train him again is because he has to be able to deal with Rey now.

 

I know that's not made explicit in the movie, but it's the vibe I got. I really look at Snoke as a drug dealer and Ren as the addict. We even get the parents saying how there was nothing else they could have done. Snoke is just stringing him along, giving him just enough to keep him hooked.

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One character was supposed to be a super strong Jedi and a hero. The other is a childish wannabe Sith. They may behave similarly, but one of them fits the description given by the film, the other didn't.

When Anakin was in action, I had no problem believing that he was very powerful. As far as pure physicality goes, he easily outclassed Ewan McGregor.

Yes. Thank you. I had that exact argument with a "victim" last night. She just didn't get how this "all powerful" bad guy could be all whiny like Anakin, while displaying very few of his actual "chosen one" powers. I was taken aback, since the movie made it very clear he wasn't all-powerful, and asked where she heard he was the chosen one. Not every whiny dark-sider is Anakin, people!

Well, we'll see. In the first part of the movie, that is indeed how he was presented. I'm hoping you're right. However, it's not yet clear that this is the direction the film makers are going. It may well be that they just dropped the ball.

 

But even if he is just a whiny brat with no power, I'm not sure that really makes me feel better. So far Snoke isn't impressing me at all, so that would be two villains that are underperforming. Three if you count Hux, whose most direct comparison is Tarkin. And Hux ain't no Tarkin.

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Ren STOPPED A BLASTER BOLT IN MIDAIR and held that **** there for like 3 minutes. That's pretty dammed powerful.

Someone still needs to explain to me the whole notion of stopping light from moving. Also, anyone want to take a stab at how Newton's first law works here? What force caused the bolt to start moving again once he let it go?

 

Any physicists around care to explain what would happen if light stopped moving?

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Yes, at first Ren was shown as being super powerful. Then as the movie went on we learned more about him and saw that it wasn't the case. In fact I'd say that Snoke explicitly saying he has to finish his training shows pretty clearly the JJ and Kasdan meant for it to be obvious that Ren isn't all that powerful yet.

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Not to get all sciency but photons do have mass

 

How does that work with the Theory of Relativity? Doesn't mass approach infinite as you approach the speed of light?

 

 

Yes, at first Ren was shown as being super powerful. Then as the movie went on we learned more about him and saw that it wasn't the case. In fact I'd say that Snoke explicitly saying he has to finish his training shows pretty clearly the JJ and Kasdan meant for it to be obvious that Ren isn't all that powerful yet.

 

I can somewhat accept that with the caveat that the series is in trouble as none of the villains are living up to the billing.

 

However, do you think the average movie-goer walked out of the theater believing Kylo Ren was supposed to be a relative weakling? If not, I'm still looking askance at those that are giving him a pass. Or even calling him awesome.

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Yes, at first Ren was shown as being super powerful. Then as the movie went on we learned more about him and saw that it wasn't the case. In fact I'd say that Snoke explicitly saying he has to finish his training shows pretty clearly the JJ and Kasdan meant for it to be obvious that Ren isn't all that powerful yet.

I didn't realize it at the time, but his first lightsaber ragefit was, to me, the big sign he was really just a talented, but spoiled and mental kid who's in over his head. At first, I thought "Huh, tryin' to make him this superscary presence like Vader, but it isn't working, guys." -- the scene felt more like being around that unstable cousin with the massive stockpile of guns when he starts getting angry for no discernible reason, not the (presumably) malevolent and intimidating presence of a Sith Lord (or Renlord or whatever).

 

But later, as it became clearer he wasn't close to finishing his training, the scene totally made sense.

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I don't really care about the average movie goer. That's what I took from it, if someone else took something else from it, then they took something else from it. I can only say what I took from the movie.

 

To me, the 2 main characters are Ren and Rey. They are at the same point. In this movie the main plot is Rey accepting her destiny as a Jedi, which she does. The 2nd most important story is Ren struggling within himself and by killing Han he takes a major step towards his ultimate destiny of evil.

 

Then at the end of the movie both are going to start/continue their training.

 

I think potentially it's going to be very interesting to see the two of them follow parallel paths throughout the next 2 movies. This is not Rey being trained to eventually defeat Ren, she's already defeated him. It's the two of them both trying to reach their ultimate destiny and power.

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Side note: The Force Awakens managed $238 million over the weekend. A new record. Though I'm not sure why they let them include the Thursday night totals in that.

 

This, along with pretty much nothing else coming out until Ride Along 2 almost a month from now, means that it's going to easily step past The Phantom Menace for highest gross in the series. Wonder if it can get up into the $600 million range.

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I'd think it will pass 600 mil, if you look at the top 10 openings of all time (all of which have taken place since 2008 with the Dark Knight) you find that the percent of total gross the opening weekend represented fell somewhere between 29.7 for The Dark Knight and The Deathly Hallows Part 2 at 44.4.

 

If you use TDKs # you'd get 801 million. If you use Potters you get 536. So you'd think somewhere between the 2 of those. But when you look at it, for the most part, you see that the better received the movie is the lower percent its opening weekend is of it's total gross.

 

Jurassic World and the first Avengers come right in around 33%, Dark Knight rises around 35%. I think those are probably fair for The Force Awakens. If it holds up about the same as those 3 movies it would earn roughly 700 mil domestic.

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