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The I've Seen The Force Awakens Thread (spoilers OBV)


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Also, here is why I don't think Rey is related to anyone known. If the only people powerful enough to be strong enough in the Force to defeat each other have to be descendants of other powerful Force users you create essentially a super class of person. It's egalitarian, which isn't very Star Wars.

 

I like the idea of Rey not even being born with the Force, she was just a normal child. Then at some point The Force chose her. She is truly born of humble beginnings, she's not the Messiah, nor the child of the Messiah. She really is just an orphan but because of the traits she developed over her young life, her kindness, loyalty, caring etc The Force chose her. This could be a beautiful speech Luke gives to her at some point.

I like this idea...for any story other than Star Wars episodes. These movies are about the Skywalker family, and it doesn't work if the main character (who is Rey, NOT Kylo Ben), isn't a Skywalker.

 

But bring me Rogue One with non Force sensitive badasses, or a standalone film about a random Jedi, and I'm all for it.

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Yeah-- Snoke was a creepy weird looking old dude who uses the dark side and commands from beyond. Just like Palpatine.

 

Now I get all the echoes and call backs and montages, but everything else that was cribbed was at least spun a little differently. Nothing about Snoke set him apart from Palpatine.

 

AND, he is obviously old-- old enough that he'd have been around during the OT, or even the PT. Which begs the question, if he has this much power now, I feel like it's odd he wasn't a power player then. Even if he is a REN and not a SITH, its not like Palpatine was into ANYBODY sharing his power other than Vader.

 

When I say Kylo Ren on his own would have been better-- I mean that Ben started tapping into the dark side in the same unconscious way that Luke and Rey seem to hit the light side, and that Anakin was attuned to both. Luke tried to reign him in, but it didn't work. With the Sith gone, Kylo had to figure it out for himself. He's sloppy, makes mistakes and through the ST he would get better at being evil.

 

He didn't need a mysterious dark dude in the shadows to be tempted by the dark side. All Jedi are tempted by the dark side and it's their ability to push past it that makes them Jedi.

 

 

My feelings exactly. TFA renders the OT meaningless. Luke goes through this whole arc in the OT to become a Jedi, redeem his father, destroy the Sith and save the galaxy from the Empire's tyranny. Now we find out the galaxy is still having whole planets being blown up by an even BIGGER weapon, troopers still get to go and burn towns down and kill people at will, and there is still a dark side force user and his protege using their abilities to keep everyone in line. So really the only thing the OT accomplished was turning Anakin back to the light.

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So then instead of it being

 

"Now we find out the galaxy is still having whole planets being blown up by an even BIGGER weapon, troopers still get to go and burn towns down and kill people at will, and there is still a dark side force user and his protege using their abilities to keep everyone in line."

 

It would be

 

"Now we find out the galaxy is still having whole planets being blown up by an even BIGGER weapon, troopers still get to go and burn towns down and kill people at will, and there is still a dark side force user in a mask running around intimidating people."

 

 

Yeah, I mean it would be sooo different.

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Originally posted by capainbleh:

 

The things that are chipping away at my love for this movie are mostly to do with pacing (found it relentless) and tone and characters that were either wasted, annoying, one-dimensional, too-perfect, or just did nothing for me.

 

 

I’m in this mode here. I am still processing it now.
The pacing was slow. In comparison to the original ANH (they got to Tatooine, they got off Tatooine and kept going with alternating scenes from the Death Star), this movie was all over the place.
It’s like it was trying to convince us that this is a Star Wars movie. I started making a list in my head: desert planet, check. Snow planet, check. Forest planet, check. Okay, so I guess we’re not going to see a water planet. Oh, wait there it is.
New big Death Star. If I hadn’t read a gazillion EU stories where some Imperial wacko got hold of a superweapon, I might have been more impressed. Or I might have been more impressed if they hadn’t revisted it in “Return of the Jedi”. Having another trench scene bored me silly. And, of course, a Solo kid turning to the dark side. We had our Mos Eisley/Mos Espa scene, our Cantina/Jabba’s Palace scene, our dogfight scene, our countdown to when the superweapon was fully powered, our Wilhelm scream and, probably hidden somewhere because I didn’t find it, our 1138.
FN2187. 2187 was Leia’s cell # in ANH.
I see no point to Captain Phasma, Moss is the new Yoda, Hux is Tarkin-lite until that scene where he channels his inner Goebbels. What is the Resistance? There is a Republic, there is a First Order and there is a Resistance. What is it resisting? I assume the First Order, but wouldn’t the Republic be in opposition to the First Order and the resistance just be its military wing? They didn’t explain that in the movie at all. Or is the Empire contained in an “Imperial Remnant” mode and the Republic is okay with that, but nudge, nudge, winks, winks at Leia who runs her resistance? And did that supersolarlaser wipe out Coruscant?
I read no spoilers but knew Han was doomed the minute he stepped on that bridge over a big chasm and, because JJ wouldn’t dare have Kylo drop his murderous ways 60 seconds into a family reunion, I knew where that lightsaber was going, as well. And, yes….I groaned when “Ben”.
I was also sure that Luke wasn’t evil and that we wouldn’t see him til the end. But that end scene did give me chills.
I agree that Harrison Ford came off as an old Han Solo. Carrie Fisher’s mouth thing bothered me for a bit, but I just brushed it off after awhile as Old. Chewbacca had a lot more to do. BB-8 reminded me of my dog. Rey and Finn were great. Poe Dameron reminded me of some of the hot shot Rogue Squadron pilots I’ve read about. His lines while being interrogated by Ren could have been said by Hobbie or Janson.

 

TFA plays just like an EU novel.

 

Yeah, pretty much.

 

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Guest El Chalupacabra

Yeah-- Snoke was a creepy weird looking old dude who uses the dark side and commands from beyond. Just like Palpatine.

 

Now I get all the echoes and call backs and montages, but everything else that was cribbed was at least spun a little differently. Nothing about Snoke set him apart from Palpatine.

 

AND, he is obviously old-- old enough that he'd have been around during the OT, or even the PT. Which begs the question, if he has this much power now, I feel like it's odd he wasn't a power player then. Even if he is a REN and not a SITH, its not like Palpatine was into ANYBODY sharing his power other than Vader.

 

When I say Kylo Ren on his own would have been better-- I mean that Ben started tapping into the dark side in the same unconscious way that Luke and Rey seem to hit the light side, and that Anakin was attuned to both. Luke tried to reign him in, but it didn't work. With the Sith gone, Kylo had to figure it out for himself. He's sloppy, makes mistakes and through the ST he would get better at being evil.

 

He didn't need a mysterious dark dude in the shadows to be tempted by the dark side. All Jedi are tempted by the dark side and it's their ability to push past it that makes them Jedi.

Well, we know very little about Snoke, where he came from, or what his ultimate agenda is to write him off as a carbon copy of Palaptine. They did a good enough job to differentiate Kylo Ren from Vader, so I trust as we learn more about Snoke, they may do the same with him.

 

But I disagree with you in that they shouldn't have gone with Snoke or some other Emperor-like Villain. What should they have done?

A Grand Admiral Thrawn? Hux was kind of underwhelming to be a mastermind.

The yuuzhan vong or something similar? No THANKS!

Mandalorians? Maybe, but I've had enough of them.

The Independence Day aliens?

 

I think no matter what you came up with, people WANT an Emperor/Vader style villain for Star Wars, and really, it wouldn't feel like Star Wars without them. When you have jedi on one side, it really isn't a fair fight unless you have a dark side equivalent of some type.

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My point is, I could be accepting of Snoke had they given us enough. Everything else that was a lift from the OT was spun a little different. TFA, for its faults, did a great job with most all the characters. I think it was a mistake holding back with Snoke and making him too much of a mystery.

 

I have no doubt that they will go deeper with him in the next two movies-- my point is, it was a poor decision to not do something original with him to set him apart from palpatine.

 

This is the problem with hooking mysteries-- it's great if you let the audiences ask the right questions. Like Rey's parentage-- that's something we now get to debate for 2 years and that's fun. But Snoke? They didn't give us enough to be excited by it, so it falls flat.

As for what I think they should have done-- I posted that a few times :)

 

Kylo Ren was enough for us. His lack of a master and delving into the dark side as an unseen act of self destruction for power is more interesting to me-- and offers more creative directions to go, than giving us another mysterious dark master. It shows us that Luke really did defeat the dark side, and now Ren has tapped into power he doesn't understand.

 

He can't go it alone, so he hooks up with the First Order who could have been ruled by anyone of no real importance. Hux was fine-- just too young to be seen as a leader of ALL. I don't need Thrawn,, just some ld admirals and Kylo Ren gives them purpose and tyher idea that with him on their side they have a chance to get their power back.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

Point taken, but I still think Kylo Ren is a good mini-boss, but not yet old enough or evil enough to be the big bad you speak of.

 

Now, for sake of argument, do you think the Snoke concept might have gone over better if we didn't see him? Maybe just heard his voice? Or better yet, we don't see the conversation, just Ren leaving the chamber, saying "OK, this is what leader Snoke wants us to do?"

 

I think that was one thing about the OT that was cool. We only HEARD about the Emperpor in ANH. There was a lot of mystery about the emperor. We only saw a GLIMPSE of the Emperor in TESB. We didn't finally see the Emperor until ROTJ. And it wasn't until the end, we saw how powerful he really was. I think he even says that, actually.

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Point taken, but I still think Kylo Ren is a good mini-boss, but not yet old enough or evil enough to be the big bad you speak of.

 

Now, for sake of argument, do you think the Snoke concept might have gone over better if we didn't see him? Maybe just heard his voice? Or better yet, we don't see the conversation, just Ren leaving the chamber, saying "OK, this is what leader Snoke wants us to do?"

 

I think that was one thing about the OT that was cool. We only HEARD about the Emperpor in ANH. There was a lot of mystery about the emperor. We only saw a GLIMPSE of the Emperor in TESB. We didn't finally see the Emperor until ROTJ. And it wasn't until the end, we saw how powerful he really was. I think he even says that, actually.

I think it would have been more interesting if Kylo Ren wasn't a big bad. As we saw him was perfect-- I'd just let him grow into the role of being more evil. Killing Han was reverse moment of Luke facing Vader. That was his last tie to being Ben, and now he's free of it. Let him become the new Emperor by episode 9. Not literally-- but his growth from conflicted brat to all powerful evil is something I think we're going to get, and I think that is just as interesting sans Snoke.

 

I just don't see a real need for Snoke. But since we're getting him, I hope he shakes out differently from the Emperor, and that he has a back story that makes sense.

 

Maybe he's not all that old-- maybe he's just a scarred alien.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

 

Point taken, but I still think Kylo Ren is a good mini-boss, but not yet old enough or evil enough to be the big bad you speak of.

 

Now, for sake of argument, do you think the Snoke concept might have gone over better if we didn't see him? Maybe just heard his voice? Or better yet, we don't see the conversation, just Ren leaving the chamber, saying "OK, this is what leader Snoke wants us to do?"

 

I think that was one thing about the OT that was cool. We only HEARD about the Emperpor in ANH. There was a lot of mystery about the emperor. We only saw a GLIMPSE of the Emperor in TESB. We didn't finally see the Emperor until ROTJ. And it wasn't until the end, we saw how powerful he really was. I think he even says that, actually.

I think it would have been more interesting if Kylo Ren wasn't a big bad. As we saw him was perfect-- I'd just let him grow into the role of being more evil. Killing Han was reverse moment of Luke facing Vader. That was his last tie to being Ben, and now he's free of it. Let him become the new Emperor by episode 9. Not literally-- but his growth from conflicted brat to all powerful evil is something I think we're going to get, and I think that is just as interesting sans Snoke.

 

I just don't see a real need for Snoke. But since we're getting him, I hope he shakes out differently from the Emperor, and that he has a back story that makes sense.

 

Maybe he's not all that old-- maybe he's just a scarred alien.

 

Good points!

 

Well, I have noted that Snoke looks battle-scared, and I am clinging to the theory that he is the inverse of Sidious....it's the master, not the apprentice that is physically broken. Snoke is using Ren to accomplish what he physically no longer can do.

 

 

Now, what if in Episode 8, when Snoke completes his training, Kylo Ren realizes "Hey, I don't need Snoke anymore," then disposes of Snoke. Basically doing what Vader DREAMED of doing to the Emperor, and in that respect, becomes GREATER than Vader. In essence, turning Kylo Ren into the complete inverse of Luke.

 

 

Random thought: How awesome was Kylo Ren's voice, with the mask on? They did some weird electronics to that voice.

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Guest Domina Crystalli

Does it seem like half the people in this thread are not reading earlier replies?

I'm still getting used to the mobile site, okay? The last time I was active on Nightly, I had a flip phone.

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Thought about it, and really, my only real problem with Snoke is his blandness. It's not the CGI. It's not his limited dialogue or unknown origin and motives. Kanata has an instantly recognizable, unique face and voice -- and those little details, like the eye indentations just make a world of difference. She's great! But Snoke comes off like he was made by some 15 year-old who, after putting down the bong, says "Heh. I'm gonna make the superscariest bad guy ever. Hehe," then mixes together Palpatine, Voldemort, Gollum, Michael Meyers, etc. and tells himself and anybody who will listen that it is so awesome.

 

No matter how derivative Star Wars may be, it has always had very well-designed, if not fully iconic baddies.

 

Tarkin is all ice and angles, Vader is Vadery, Jabba is a blubbery hedonistic menace, Boba Fett is the mysterious stranger, Palpatine is pure eval. Hell, even Grievous, Dooku, and Maul are immediately recognizable. But Snoke comes off like plain yogurt of bad guys. Unacceptable!

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When it comes to Snoke I think that Abrams' insistence that Ren was not a Sith is quite telling. Perhaps Snoke is a dark lord who differs from the Sith and couldn't show himself during the OT because he wasn't welcome, and couldn't show himself during the PT because he wasn't in Palp's spot to work the Senate.

 

Better yet, maybe he was just waiting for things to play out so that he could make his move. If he's one of those SW characters who can live for centuries then why not just wait for the right time to strike?

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Anybody else consider the fact that Kylo didn't actually kill Han? He was all teary and stuff when he lightsabered him, so maybe he missed all of the vital organs intentionally knowing he'd fall off the bridge and slide to safety Bespin style and get patched up by Doctor Droids and go live on an island somewhere until he could kill Snoke Classic so he and daddy could rule the galaxy as father and son?

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