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The I've Seen The Force Awakens Thread (spoilers OBV)


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Guest El Chalupacabra

What is the general consensus on Maz Kanata?

 

I thought she looked as great as Snoke looked poopy, but reactions have been very mixed among people I know who have seen it (from "OMG SO FAKE" to "BEST CGI CHARACTER EVAR"). I'm wondering if the standard theater/3D/IMAX matters to people's perception?

I guess I am the only one who didn't mind Snoke's appearance, then? I thought it was a call back to Ralph McQuarrie's original concepts of what the Emperor should look like. He didn't look exactly like RM's art, but you could tell it was definitely inspired by it.

 

But I loved Maz. I want more Maz. In some ways, she was more Yoda-like than PT Yoda. Definitely came off as a believably wise 1000 year old being.

 

 

Here's an interesting thought I saw elsewhere online--

 

Rey's visions are obviously moments from Luke's past. But what if some of what she sees-- like the assembled Knights of Ren is actually the future?

Interesting idea, but I thought it was all in the past. Maybe the Knights of Ren were lead by Kylo in his extermination of Luke's jedi, and Kylo is all that remains. Besides, if she saw the future, why didn't see herself with Luke?

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Maz felt to me like-- this will sound weird, but a character that would have starred in a Star Wars TV special made around Return of the Jedi. Something I would have loved as a kid. I don't mind her as an adult, but that whole sequence was very old-school Star Wars to me and made up for the Alien-esque NOT Star Wars feeling sequence on Han's freighter.

 

Snoke I disliked plot wise so much that the subpar CG just added to my disdain.

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I thought this movie was totally awesome! I did think Leia was kind of off, though, like it was a different actress playing her.

Rey was amazing!

Finn was great!

Kylo, like someone said, is what Anakin should have been!

Han and Chewie were awesome! Funny that Han went back to doing what he was doing before he joined the rebels.

Hated the death scene even though I pretty much knew going in it was probably going to happen. I did like Chewie's roar after Han falls and how he starts blasting away and setting the bombs off! I felt his pain then. :(

 

 

[big one] Why, exactly, is the First Order so concerned with Luke Skywalker if he hasn't been doing jack **** for some considerable time?

Learning from their past mistakes is how I see it! The Empire got screwed last time because they gave up on finding Obi-Wan and Yoda, two Jedi they knew were alive. That led to them training a new Jedi that was instrumental in taking their leaders down!

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Some of my younger coworkers who saw the PT in theaters as kids, and thus know zilch about Ralph McQuarrie's conceptual art, told me Snoke looked like a Voldermort or at least some old wizard reject from Harry Potter.

 

Speaking of Harry Potter, I haven't seen anyone mention this, but one of my biggest gripes was the lightsaber "calling" to Rey. Since when did lightsabers become wizarding wands? The lightsaber is just a freaking tool made of metal. We see Jedi lose them, break them and just pick up new ones like they were iPhones. All of a sudden Luke's saber has become Excalibur.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

Maz felt to me like-- this will sound weird, but a character that would have starred in a Star Wars TV special made around Return of the Jedi. Something I would have loved as a kid. I don't mind her as an adult, but that whole sequence was very old-school Star Wars to me and made up for the Alien-esque NOT Star Wars feeling sequence on Han's freighter.

 

Snoke I disliked plot wise so much that the subpar CG just added to my disdain.

Yeah, I think you have a point with that old school feel, and I think that was sort of the point. Her castle seemed a bit of a call back to Jabba's Palace.

 

As for the creatures Han was transporting, yeah I immediately made that "Aliens" connection, and it seemed like they were aboard the Nostromo. The creatures themselves looked like they were straight out of AD&D's Monster Manual.

 

In the latter case, very un-Star Warsy!

[big one] Why, exactly, is the First Order so concerned with Luke Skywalker if he hasn't been doing jack **** for some considerable time?

Learning from their past mistakes is how I see it! The Empire got screwed last time because they gave up on finding Obi-Wan and Yoda, two Jedi they knew were alive. That led to them training a new Jedi that was instrumental in taking their leaders down!

 

Very good point!

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Oh, I'm not forgetting those lines from the trailer. :)

 

Those two unanswered questions are answered in the film. The Republic secretly supports the Resistance (mentioned in the crawl and Hux's speech). The Republic can't fight against the First Order because of the peace treaty, which is called the Galactic Concordance. (Revealed in other sources.)

 

The Hosnian System (mentioned in the Resistance scenes) was destroyed. It was the capital of the Republic (mentioned by Hux in his speech). The Republic chose the Hosnian system because they didn't want to reestablish on Coruscant.

Is that in Aftermath?

 

In Aftermath, the capital is on Chandrila (Mon Mothma's homeworld), but she wants to move it because she doesn't want to seem like she's playing favorites or whatever.

 

The Galactic Concordance is referenced in Lost Stars, but only as a peace treaty.

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Here's an interesting thought I saw elsewhere online--

 

Rey's visions are obviously moments from Luke's past. But what if some of what she sees-- like the assembled Knights of Ren is actually the future?

 

I was just talking about this this morning. I really want to know exactly how old Kylo is supposed to be, because he was definitely an adult, or at least an older teen, in that shot. But Han refers to Luke's student who turned against him as a "boy," and the novelization adds the detail that the bridge confrontation is the first time Han has seen his son as a grown man. (Which, dear lord, kill me dead why don't you.)

Speaking of Harry Potter, I haven't seen anyone mention this, but one of my biggest gripes was the lightsaber "calling" to Rey. Since when did lightsabers become wizarding wands? The lightsaber is just a freaking tool made of metal. We see Jedi lose them, break them and just pick up new ones like they were iPhones. All of a sudden Luke's saber has become Excalibur.

I think it makes sense. George and Mark always talked about how the sequel trilogy would be Luke passing down Excalibur to the next generation. The lightsaber calling to her is one of the reasons I think she's his daughter. It doesn't make sense if she's some rando.

 

Snoke was okay, but he was more of a plot device in this movie. I definitely want to know more about him. I'm sick of all the Plagueis conspiracy theories and wish this movie had completely denied them.

 

I loved Maz, way more than I thought I would. She was super funny and interesting, and I really want to know what she and Han talked about after saying, "Who's the girl?" Also, she's never shown again after the castle attack, so I'm hoping she comes back.

 

I really liked Leia, and I was actively worried about not buying into Carrie Fisher's performance. I don't know if she could act in any other roles right now, but I still think she embodies Leia. And I loved that she was a General and basically started the Resistance. She did her biological mom and her adopted dad proud. (I also love that she doesn't blame Luke for what happened with Kylo Ben.)

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Defying physics I can accept, the Force bringing people together I can accept... To an extent.

 

I really really really really struggle with how Rey steals the Falcon then ten minutes later runs into its former owner who wasn't specifically looking for it, who also happens to be the key to getting her to the Resistance and also is probably her uncle.

 

Again, one line-- ONE line from Han could fix it. "Soon as you fired the Falcon up it set off a tracking device I left on board."

 

There was a line. Han said something along the lines of "If we could track the Falcon, the First Order will be able to see it too"

I think he said that ships were easy to spot in the system and that if they spotted the Falcon so could the Order.

 

Not that they were specifically looking for the Falcon.

 

Again... they were. Han remarks to Chewie that they should have checked the northern territories on Jakku. Right after Rey tells him who had it.

Here's an interesting thought I saw elsewhere online--

 

Rey's visions are obviously moments from Luke's past. But what if some of what she sees-- like the assembled Knights of Ren is actually the future?

 

Rey does see the future in her vision. She had not met Kylo Ren at that time but she forsaw him holding the 'Saber to her throat. I thought the biut where the Knights of Ren were assembled was when they were killing the remaining Jedi. But I can't be sure. Clouded the future always is.

 

 

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I just returned from the movie theater after seeing it for the first time, so it's still buzzing inside of me. I will comment more after it has soaked in.

 

Boyega was great. Driver was great. Rey was...very good? Great? The characters have personalities this time around, so that's awesome!

 

I started to tear up on several occasions.

-"the death" of course. Even though i figured it would happen, and when they stepped onto that bridge i saw it coming, but it still killed me.

-Chewie getting wounded...I remember screaming DONT YOU ****ing DARE inside of my own mind (it's okay I'm fine now).

-Han and Leia reuniting.

-Artoo in a coma. Artoo coming out of the coma.

-seeing the falcon for the first time.

-seeing Luke McGuffin.

 

Threepio's red arm was awkward. The scene aboard the falcon with the giant squids was awkward. Snoke looked too much like Gollum. Yoda-like lady with glasses was only a little awkward.

 

The Force seemed super powerful, like it chooses it's own destiny at times. It was like you could observe "the will of the force", and not just have it as an excuse for lazy writing. I love this. Rey touching the lightsaber and seeing Luke's past might have gone too far with this, though. Speaking of which...

 

I'm glad there was less emphasis on lightsabers, but when they were used they looked like they were nonfunctional. Why didn't driver lose his face? or Finn get an asshqle cut in his back? I know they are old and the batteries are probably dying but we are only talking about flesh here.

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Just seen it for the second time and I have to say it's a lot better on second viewing. A few points I'd like to address from my earlier post: http://nightly.net/topic/78512-the-ive-seen-the-force-awakens-thread-spoilers-obv/page-6?do=findComment&comment=2183380

 

- There is an explanation in the opening crawl abouyt the state of the Republic and there is a scene where they discuss destroying the Republic backed resistance with Snoke and Ren and Hux.

- The Resistance got their pictures of Starkiller Base from a reconaissance flight courtesy of Greg Porkins.

- The score was a lot more noticable the second time round. I saw it in a different theatre so I don't know if the sound was better (my guess it was) or whether I was just looking for it. We do get an establishing shot and musical cue to go with it when Finn crests the dune outside the Jakku settlement.

- Pacing felt a lot better on second viewing. I think I wasn't trying to take so much in all at once that I appreciated it more.

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Here's an interesting thought I saw elsewhere online--

 

Rey's visions are obviously moments from Luke's past. But what if some of what she sees-- like the assembled Knights of Ren is actually the future?

 

I was just talking about this this morning. I really want to know exactly how old Kylo is supposed to be, because he was definitely an adult, or at least an older teen, in that shot. But Han refers to Luke's student who turned against him as a "boy," and the novelization adds the detail that the bridge confrontation is the first time Han has seen his son as a grown man. (Which, dear lord, kill me dead why don't you.)

 

...

 

Snoke was okay, but he was more of a plot device in this movie. I definitely want to know more about him. I'm sick of all the Plagueis conspiracy theories and wish this movie had completely denied them.

 

 

 

Well, you convinced me of the maths being possible cause I doubted it at first. But rounding off-- if Kylo is 30 and Rey is 20, it's not hard to buy him being full grown by 18-19, but still considered a boy by his father, which would make Rey 8-9 which isn't too far off from where we see her in the vision.

 

And Snoke was outright denied-- by Kasdan during a con Q and A.

 

I didn't like that Kylo Ren could sense Han Solo from relatively far away and then Han just proceeds to sneak up on him later.

 

I think the force has always been great at telling you somebody was nearish, but not an exact homing beacon. Luke new Vader was on Endor. Vader knew Obi-Wan was on the Death Star. But Vader couldn't find Luke hiding in the throne room even though they were only yards apart.

 

Again... they were. Han remarks to Chewie that they should have checked the northern territories on Jakku. Right after Rey tells him who had it.

Here's an interesting thought I saw elsewhere online--

 

Rey's visions are obviously moments from Luke's past. But what if some of what she sees-- like the assembled Knights of Ren is actually the future?

 

Rey does see the future in her vision. She had not met Kylo Ren at that time but she forsaw him holding the 'Saber to her throat. I thought the biut where the Knights of Ren were assembled was when they were killing the remaining Jedi. But I can't be sure. Clouded the future always is.

 

 

 

I need to see again-- but if that's how he puts it, that helps me considerably. But why he's looking then and there on the same day she runs off while in the middle of his own smuggling operation... still iffy...

 

I'm glad there was less emphasis on lightsabers, but when they were used they looked like they were nonfunctional. Why didn't driver lose his face? or Finn get an asshqle cut in his back? I know they are old and the batteries are probably dying but we are only talking about flesh here.

Seemed like most of the blows were just with the tip.

 

JUST THE TIP

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I don't get the Snoke hate. I thought he was perfect in his role as the root of all the evil. He was only in three or four brief scnes and served his purpose. What is there to hate? There was nothing wrong with the CG either. Considering he was a hologram after all. I still didn't notice anything untoward visually. What are you guys smoking?

 

I love the line when he said "Bring... Her... To ME!!!!" Really creepy.

 

It was at that point that I realised that Kylo Ren was disposable and Han Re-inforced that when he told him on the bridge that he will use him to get what he wants before casting him aside.

 

Driver's performance as Kylo Ren was excellent. But his character needed a Snoke. He was too weak and emotional to be the Big Bad all on his own.

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Snoke is kinda just ok in the movie but I'll hold off until we see him "in person" to reserve final judgement. I do kinda like Snoke and Ren's relationship though. Snoke is a drug dealer, Ren is the addict. Snoke is only giving Ren enough training/power to 1-keep him hooked and 2-just powerful enough to fit Snokes use for him. He doesn't want this guy super powerful, just powerful enough. Now that there is another powerful Force user around and potentially Luke Skywalker coming back Snoke needs Ren to be more powerful, thats why he is finishing his training.

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My problem with Snoke is that so far he just seems like another re-hash of the Emperor. I was hoping for something different, something that was different from the Sith. But at this stage at least it may as well just be Sith since they seem pretty much the same.

 

Kinda like Jakku in a way. Cool that we are getting new planets, but if it looks identical to Tattooine may as well just be Tattootine.

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Also, here is why I don't think Rey is related to anyone known. If the only people powerful enough to be strong enough in the Force to defeat each other have to be descendants of other powerful Force users you create essentially a super class of person. It's egalitarian, which isn't very Star Wars.

 

I like the idea of Rey not even being born with the Force, she was just a normal child. Then at some point The Force chose her. She is truly born of humble beginnings, she's not the Messiah, nor the child of the Messiah. She really is just an orphan but because of the traits she developed over her young life, her kindness, loyalty, caring etc The Force chose her. This could be a beautiful speech Luke gives to her at some point.

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Yeah-- Snoke was a creepy weird looking old dude who uses the dark side and commands from beyond. Just like Palpatine.

 

Now I get all the echoes and call backs and montages, but everything else that was cribbed was at least spun a little differently. Nothing about Snoke set him apart from Palpatine.

 

AND, he is obviously old-- old enough that he'd have been around during the OT, or even the PT. Which begs the question, if he has this much power now, I feel like it's odd he wasn't a power player then. Even if he is a REN and not a SITH, its not like Palpatine was into ANYBODY sharing his power other than Vader.

 

When I say Kylo Ren on his own would have been better-- I mean that Ben started tapping into the dark side in the same unconscious way that Luke and Rey seem to hit the light side, and that Anakin was attuned to both. Luke tried to reign him in, but it didn't work. With the Sith gone, Kylo had to figure it out for himself. He's sloppy, makes mistakes and through the ST he would get better at being evil.

 

He didn't need a mysterious dark dude in the shadows to be tempted by the dark side. All Jedi are tempted by the dark side and it's their ability to push past it that makes them Jedi.

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