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Your Episode 7 Hope-O-Meter


Pong Messiah
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What Expectations must Episode 7 Meet in Order to Satisfy You  

25 members have voted

  1. 1. Episode 7 Won't Suck If...

    • it is not just a great Star Wars entry, but a great film that can stand on its own!
    • it is fun and exciting, and adds to and improves upon existing SW mythology in a way I approve of!
    • it provides an explosive and enjoyable 2+ hours of escape from the drudgery of the real world while inducing minimal eye-rolling!
    • it is better than the prequels!
    • other (explain)


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I'm assuming everybody in this forum will be seeing Episode 7 in the theaters. So... what are your hopes going in? Are you excited to be seeing it, or just going out of some masochistic sense of dread and duty? Most importantly, for you, what are the minimum standards this movie must meet or exceed in order to not suck?

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haha krawlie is the worst

 

I'm not sure what I want. The list of J.J. Abrams' film and television credits is not encouraging. He's made a lot of garbage, and even at his best (M:I-3, Star Trek, Fringe -- just my favorites, yomv), his work is uneven and more style than substance. With past behavior being best predictor, what I'm expecting is a movie that looks great and is a lot of fun, but lacking any sort of compelling narrative and depth.

 

But maybe that's OK? It's not like the OT or PT had great acting, and while there was a lot of clever writing in the OT, I wouldn't call it "great writing." And despite those shortcomings, at least two of them are considered classics, and there are lots of people who love all six. So, if I just find Episode 7 to be "a lot of fun," but kids everywhere love it and see it dozens of times, maybe it's done its job admirably, and I should be happy with that?

 

I'll be satisfied if it provides an explosive and enjoyable 2+ hours of escape from the drudgery of the real world while inducing minimal eye-rolling, but I will be secretly hoping it rises above the level of popcorn-tier entertainment.

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Re: JJ-- I totally agree. But my favorite thing from him is Super 8. Even though it's flawed, he decided to make a full on Amblin-era Spielberg film. A film Spielberg himself hasn't been able to make since the early 90s.

 

The fact he was able to capture that look/tone/feel by tapping into his own childhood joy tells me that despite his other mistakes that he totally knows how to make a Star Wars movie that will look and feel right. (Which the PT did NOT)

 

Add in Kasdan writing, and the potential is great. If TFA was up there with ESB I'd be thrilled-- but as long as I can walk out of the theater sans the utter disappointment I felt after each PT film, I'll be happy enough.

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The fact he was able to capture that look/tone/feel by tapping into his own childhood joy tells me that despite his other mistakes that he totally knows how to make a Star Wars movie that will look and feel right. (Which the PT did NOT)

Well, that is an astute observation and certainly encouraging!

 

Add in Kasdan writing, and the potential is great.

Also encouraging. There is no greater screenwriter in the history of film. Kasdan himself says so!

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Guest El Chalupacabra

 

I'm not sure what I want. The list of J.J. Abrams' film and television credits is not encouraging. He's made a lot of garbage, and even at his best (M:I-3, Star Trek, Fringe -- just my favorites, yomv), his work is uneven and more style than substance. With past behavior being best predictor, what I'm expecting is a movie that looks great and is a lot of fun, but lacking any sort of compelling narrative and depth.

 

Re: JJ-- I totally agree. But my favorite thing from him is Super 8. Even though it's flawed, he decided to make a full on Amblin-era Spielberg film. A film Spielberg himself hasn't been able to make since the early 90s.

 

The fact he was able to capture that look/tone/feel by tapping into his own childhood joy tells me that despite his other mistakes that he totally knows how to make a Star Wars movie that will look and feel right. (Which the PT did NOT)

 

Add in Kasdan writing, and the potential is great. If TFA was up there with ESB I'd be thrilled-- but as long as I can walk out of the theater sans the utter disappointment I felt after each PT film, I'll be happy enough.

 

 

 

Totally agree with you on JJ Abrams, Pong. The only thing I liked of JJ Abrams was Fringe, which itself started as a rip off of sorts of X-Files (I am so glad he is too big for TV now, because imagine if he had been tapped for this upcoming X-files revival), but the last season was just horrible.

 

Driver says it all there. Here's what I am hoping saves the day for this new Star Wars movie: having Kathleen Kennedy involved, and Kasdan as the writer, with Abrams able to ape the style and feel of the OT like he did with the Amblin feel of Super 8. If that can be done successfully, I think we have a good chance of a good movie.

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Somewhere along the way I lost my obsession with Star Wars so this is just another movie to me. So as long as it doesn't completely shit the bed I'm happy.

 

As far as JJ's body of work, I don't think you can include tv series like Fringe. He sets those up and then bounces. He doesn't see them through like movies.

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I chose other. Explain.

 

My expectations:

 

1). the story/plot is unconvoluted and actually makes sense. No boring stuff like space taxes and senate meetings. Keep it nice and simple. People's motivations have to be clear and logical too.

 

2). A protagonist I can relate to. The characters need to actually have personalities. No klonopin-induced monotone she male amidala voices and boring Jedi. If the characters don't care how am I supposed to?

 

3). No baby stuff. No yippe and wizard. No poop or fart jokes. No vomit-inducing dialogue comparing love dialogue or sand comparisons.. Basically, I want dialogue that doesn't suck, period.

 

4). No overuse of the lightsaber. It becomes less cool, and less interesting. Overusing the lightsaber is like playing a video game on God-mode. It's fun for a few minutes, but after that you would like a challenge.

 

Thats about it for me. Most of these things are simply standards that all decent movies should be held to, in this day and age. With the exception of four, I would say these criteria are applicable to all movies these days.

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My hopes:

 

  • To have a character I really connect with. Doesn't have to be another Luke Skywalker (although having Luke in this movie will certainly help), but I'm hoping I come out of the movie loving Poe Dameron as much as I do now. Before even seeing the movie, Rey, Finn, Poe, and Kylo seem like way more interesting characters than anyone in the prequels. (And I like the prequels.)
  • X-wings vs. TIE fighters. Give me that Battle of Endor crack right into my veins, please.
  • Passing the Bechdel test and general background diversity (which it seems like we're already getting). Star Wars can do better than having one major female character who talks.
  • A story that reminds me of A New Hope.
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Somewhere along the way I lost my obsession with Star Wars so this is just another movie to me. So as long as it doesn't completely **** the bed I'm happy.

 

As far as JJ's body of work, I don't think you can include tv series like Fringe. He sets those up and then bounces. He doesn't see them through like movies.

I'm drifting dangerously close to "just another movie" territory myself, SD. Not the fault of the EU, Lucas, Jar Jar, rough sand, Clone Wars, Rebels, or whatever. Just, idk... just kinda lost the old fanatical interest? I keep having to remind myself not to expect the brain-melting awe and joy I experienced when first seeing Empire Strikes Back, and judge The Force Awakens on the merits of its quality and entertainment value, not against some fantasy standard that it couldn't possibly meet. Basically, going into this with the same mindset I did the LotR trilogy -- just try and enjoy it for the spectacle, and ffs stop nit-picking every scene to death.

 

And wow, if he left Fringe right away, that's a bad sign. The show was pretty weak when it started. I didn't really start paying attention again until people started whispering "Hey, you remember that cheap X-Files rip-off, Fringe? It actually found its legs and voice in season 2, and is pretty good now!"

 

My hope: No worse than Attack of the Clones.

With all the time, effort, and money -- and more importantly, awareness -- that has gone into making The Force Awakens, I honestly think Abrams would have to try to make a film as bad as or worse than AotC.

 

Sure, it's very possible the new SW movies will suck, but I just don't think they will be allowed to suck in the way the prequels did (and yes, I watch TPM every Thanksgiving; I'm not bitter and can enjoy certain "bad" films).

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Guest El Chalupacabra

Somewhere along the way I lost my obsession with Star Wars so this is just another movie to me. So as long as it doesn't completely **** the bed I'm happy.

 

As far as JJ's body of work, I don't think you can include tv series like Fringe. He sets those up and then bounces. He doesn't see them through like movies.

I am not a an uberfan of many things, but Star Wars is one of them, so I am really pulling for this to be done right. Good point on Fringe, but he was involved with season 1 and 2.

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At this point I'm just hoping Harrison Ford doesn't sleepwalk through the entire film.

I have to say-- after Crystal Skull I was worried too-- but everything we've seen of him-- in terms of him doing most of the press stuff, and in the trailers-- he seems more animated than he's been in years.

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If it's better than the Prequels, I'm more than satisfied. It doesn't need to be a redefining experience or anything.

The only thing I truly want is for my concept of what Star Wars *is* to be challenged. I don't want the whole thing to be in service of the fans, I want it to be something apart from that entirely.

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My hope: No worse than Attack of the Clones.

With all the time, effort, and money -- and more importantly, awareness -- that has gone into making The Force Awakens, I honestly think Abrams would have to try to make a film as bad as or worse than AotC.

 

Sure, it's very possible the new SW movies will suck, but I just don't think they will be allowed to suck in the way the prequels did (and yes, I watch TPM every Thanksgiving; I'm not bitter and can enjoy certain "bad" films).

 

I'm still keeping expectations low. Just don't be the worst in the series.

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Yeah it would be really hard to do worse than AOTC. There's too many people with love involved for that to happen. AOTC was populated by actors who had signed contracts script unseen, an entire production team made up of people who were not allowed to say NO, THAT'S NOT A GREAT IDEA GEORGE, and a script that was being written the same time they were filming.

 

That's some Ed Wood shit right there.

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I chose other. Explain.

 

My expectations:

 

1). the story/plot is unconvoluted and actually makes sense. No boring stuff like space taxes and senate meetings. Keep it nice and simple. People's motivations have to be clear and logical too.

 

2). A protagonist I can relate to. The characters need to actually have personalities. No klonopin-induced monotone she male amidala voices and boring Jedi. If the characters don't care how am I supposed to?

3). No baby stuff. No yippe and wizard. No poop or fart jokes. No vomit-inducing dialogue comparing love dialogue or sand comparisons.. Basically, I want dialogue that doesn't suck, period.

 

4). No overuse of the lightsaber. It becomes less cool, and less interesting. Overusing the lightsaber is like playing a video game on God-mode. It's fun for a few minutes, but after that you would like a challenge.

 

Thats about it for me. Most of these things are simply standards that all decent movies should be held to, in this day and age. With the exception of four, I would say these criteria are applicable to all movies these days.

1). I agree that GL's dialogue/plots about taxes, etc. was not handled well (coming off like an immature writer trying to make his fantasy sound weighty), but there needs to be some meat there to support the idea that for a new Sith and his forces to rise to the level suggested by the trailer / V spots, the Rebellion's ROTJ victory did not mean much. That will take more than some guy in black fondling Vader's helmet and acting EEEVIILLL.

 

Refer ANH's Death Star briefing room scene--as short as it was, it gave a real sense of life to the Empire--both their reason to be, and why a rebellion existed at all.

 

2). This is the make or break element of the film; if the characters are tired archetypes (fresh in the OT, abused and failed in the PT), or "statements" ("look, we are creating a politically relevant female and black icon in this new age! We're progressive, damn it!--but don't pay attention to them not being much more!") than people who feel like people living through a believable series of situations, (that would be the OT), then TFA will be picking up where the PT left off.

 

3). I want good dialogue too, but I hope Kasdan did not try to overcompensate with "dark," "cold" or "grim" because he knows his entire career is forever compared to the ESB screenplay.

 

4). That depends on which master Abrams is serving; we're well aware of the on-target Red Letter Media criticism of the overuse of lightsabers, but to those producing SW, that insight is rejected, as seen not only in the PT, but in the Clone Wars cartoons, general merchandising, etc. A large part of the modern SW fanbase think of SW as an opportunity to "get off" and be "edgy" swinging lightsabers (for any reason at all). If the film appeals to the fanbase who want that and more, then expect substance to be pushed to the rear.

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Justus:

 

The ANH death star briefing room scene was masterfully done. It was nice and short, it wasn't strictly a star wars webinar information session, it had some entertaining parts. Plus in addition to it's short duration, it was multifunctional, making it a very effective scene. A scene or two like this I am not only expecting but I welcome it. I just don't want it to be a huge portion of the movie. It's a star wars movie...we want to see space ships blow up. Why they are blowing up is important to know, but scenes like that need to be brief.

 

As far as lightsabers in the clone wars cartoons: well yes...they are cartoons. Cartoons are for little kids. I would expect nothing less than a lightsaber going off every five seconds. I saw one for about five minutes and was bored out of my mind. Then I saw Darth Maul with robot legs and shut that piece of crap off. Then I remembered I'm an adult who doesn't enjoy cartoons, even star wars ones.

 

Your testament using those cartoons isn't a good representation of the target demographic for the anthology movies. Adults are expected to be able to watch these movies too. Less lightsabers. More story.

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