Your Episode 7 Hope-O-Meter

[Driver]

I honestly think it is impossible to be somebody who works as a creative to also be a major fandom person. There's a level of critical thought and interest in discourse and construction that create a disconnect.

 

It used to bother me, but I realized I'd much rather be in on the secret of the magic trick than be a person in the audience happy to be fooled by it.

[ShadowDog]

That makes a lot of sense.

[Pong Messiah]

BREAKING NEWS: Driver labels Star Wars fans "happy fools, incapable of critical thought."

 

 

 

 

 

Story developing...

[Driver]

BUT THEY'RE HAPPY

 

Obviously, I'm generalizing-- but even filmmakers and actors who claim to be fanboys never go to the nth degree.

[Pong Messiah]

Well, I definitely agree, and have experienced it myself and seen it in colleagues. It's just my job to report BREAKING NEWS in this thread.

 

If one is actually experienced in making art -- regardless of medium -- it generally makes one more critical (or in bad cases, straight up cynical), and less apt to accept "product/formula/routine" as good, even when well done; praise will always come in some backhand variation of "predictable, but well-crafted."

 

On the flip side, knowing the secret workings can be kinda neat, too. Maybe it's a different kind of appreciation to gush about textures, structure, narrative, production/direction, etc. though, and as you say, it prolly precludes you from fandom to some extent, since it is something of a lowest-common-denominator game.

 

In summary and conclusion, being able to make a gorgeous print is kind of like watching wrestling when you are 9, and know the basic script, finishing moves, etc., vs. a few years before when you still wanted to believe it was real even though your older cousin made fun of you and locked you in the closet prior to the main event.

[Driver]

You make me think of a musical example...

 

Let's take a totally average famous metal band. If you profiled their fans, the vast majority would say they were metal fans to the core, liking our band and other metal bands like them and not much else.

 

Profile the band themselves and despite being metal dudes, they probably listen to a wide variety of genres and artists and were likely inspired to be a musician by something from a different genre.

 

In other words, dude in Metallica doesn't decorate his house with Metallica posters and swag like a Metallica fan.

[Jacen123]

Counterpoint: Geoff Johns

[The Choc]

The artists I know, and none of them work in film or tv, are more likely to really try to find the positive in anything and everything they see. I think it's because they know how difficult it is to put yourself and your work out there for public consumption and how it can hurt to have it rejected/severely criticized.

 

But again, none of them are in movies and I don't know alot of people I'd really consider artists. But the few I do know, are like that.

[Driver]

Counterpoint: Geoff Johns

Funny-- but in terms of success, he's an exception for sure. But personally, I can't stand his stuff cause it reads like fanfic.

[Pong Messiah]

In other words, dude in Metallica doesn't decorate his house with Metallica posters and swag like a Metallica fan.

Yes, true.

 

Kurt Cobain's "top 50" included tons of bands that early '90s scenesters would have sneered at.

 

A lot of the early punk bands were just as in to reggae and/or 60s garage bands as they were punk.

 

Alice Cooper cited Burch Bacharach and Vaudeville as his favorites and was probably not trolling.

 

Beethoven was bigtime into Bach before it was cool

 

Just a few examples I can think of.

 

[Jacen123]

 

Counterpoint: Geoff Johns

Funny-- but in terms of success, he's an exception for sure. But personally, I can't stand his stuff cause it reads like fanfic.

 

For me, I either really like his work or don't care for it much at all. I was never a fan of Green Lantern until his run on it starting with Rebirth up through its end during the New 52. Everything he did with the spectrum of corps I thought was really neat. I also thought he did a really good job on the New 52 Aquaman and, from what little of it I read, his run with Wally West as the Flash many years back. I really don't see what everyone loves about his run on Justice League because it really does seem fanfic-like. I dropped it after a while of just going with it just because everything else was spinning out of it, then picked it up again for the current Darkseid War arc. I am curious to see where it goes and it has some interesting ideas, but I am looking forward to it ending.

 

I certainly know he's the exception, though.

[Mara Jade Skywalker]

I honestly think it is impossible to be somebody who works as a creative to also be a major fandom person. There's a level of critical thought and interest in discourse and construction that create a disconnect.

 

It used to bother me, but I realized I'd much rather be in on the secret of the magic trick than be a person in the audience happy to be fooled by it.

Ehh. I know several folks involved in various fandoms who work as "creatives" and they do fine. I find being involved in fandom helps me with my writing. You're assuming people involved in fandom don't pick apart Star Wars endlessly and just blindly like everything. I can guarantee that's not the case, at least when it comes to the people I hang with. I wouldn't know nearly as much about writing as I do now if I didn't pick apart crappy Star Wars books!

[Guest El Chalupacabra]

I honestly think it is impossible to be somebody who works as a creative to also be a major fandom person. There's a level of critical thought and interest in discourse and construction that create a disconnect.

 

It used to bother me, but I realized I'd much rather be in on the secret of the magic trick than be a person in the audience happy to be fooled by it.

I can see how it would be easier to spot mistakes and be more critical.

 

But couldn't it also be the case that having that knowledge can help you pick up on a work that is really well done, and appreciate the level of effort put into it, that the average lay person wouldn't pick up on?

[ShadowDog]

Yeah that happens to. For instance it's given me a deep appreciation for how hard Memento was to pull off from a writing and editing level. Far more of an appreciation than I probably would have otherwise had

[Driver]

 

I honestly think it is impossible to be somebody who works as a creative to also be a major fandom person. There's a level of critical thought and interest in discourse and construction that create a disconnect.

 

It used to bother me, but I realized I'd much rather be in on the secret of the magic trick than be a person in the audience happy to be fooled by it.

Ehh. I know several folks involved in various fandoms who work as "creatives" and they do fine. I find being involved in fandom helps me with my writing. You're assuming people involved in fandom don't pick apart Star Wars endlessly and just blindly like everything. I can guarantee that's not the case, at least when it comes to the people I hang with. I wouldn't know nearly as much about writing as I do now if I didn't pick apart crappy Star Wars books!

 

I admitted to it being a generalization-- but i still think that most times, fandom begets fandom. Fanfic begets more fanfic. I know there are a handful of pro writers who admit to starting with fanfic at some point, but I doubt that they have a Greedo punchbowl to put out for dinner parties and decorate their walls with Star Wars mondo posters.

 

Again-- not trying to be insulting-- I have a couple mondo posters up in my office too. I'm certainly a fan boy about something things, like Star Wars or X-Men, but they don't consume every aspect of my life.

[Pong Messiah]

where can I get a greedo punchbowl

[Darth Krawlie]

Driver's house, of course.

[Driver]

Here's my new hope: that Krawlie's adorable daughter Alex P Keaton's him by becoming a country and western superstar.

[ShadowDog]

A New Hope you say?

[Darth Krawlie]

Here's my new hope: that Krawlie's adorable daughter Alex P Keaton's him by becoming a country and western superstar.

As long as she buys me a house

[Pong Messiah]

OK, this week we did TPM without sound.

 

Totally pumped me up! But then again, I've always been a Sebulba fanboy. Obi and QG's first confrontation with the droids is awesome. Pod races are sweet (and omg isn't Shmi the coolest/worst mom EVER?!?), Boss Nass rules, and goddamn that final duel! It's a total kiddie movie (yet oddly full of unnecessary exposition -- thankfully muted), and the ham-fisted OT nods get painful after awhile, but I still kinda love it.

 

Oh, I know I'm in the minority, but I truly love the brighter color scheme and curvier designs of this movie vs. Eps. II and III, too!

 

If The Force Awakens manages to be as fun as TPM while shedding just, idk... maybe half of the overt-kid movie/painful reference junk, it'll be in my top-5 of the year.

 

Yippeeeeeee!

[Durty D]

I watched the phantom edit over the weekend - worthwhile exercise if you are struggling to binge watch all of the films before Wednesday night

[Mara Jade Skywalker]

 

 

I honestly think it is impossible to be somebody who works as a creative to also be a major fandom person. There's a level of critical thought and interest in discourse and construction that create a disconnect.

 

It used to bother me, but I realized I'd much rather be in on the secret of the magic trick than be a person in the audience happy to be fooled by it.

Ehh. I know several folks involved in various fandoms who work as "creatives" and they do fine. I find being involved in fandom helps me with my writing. You're assuming people involved in fandom don't pick apart Star Wars endlessly and just blindly like everything. I can guarantee that's not the case, at least when it comes to the people I hang with. I wouldn't know nearly as much about writing as I do now if I didn't pick apart crappy Star Wars books!

 

I know there are a handful of pro writers who admit to starting with fanfic at some point,

 

I think there's a lot more than you realize, especially when it comes to female writers. In fact, I'm pretty sure every one of the female writers who've recently written Star Wars books started out writing fanfic (and I know one of them still actively writes fic in at least one fandom).

 

Maybe it's because I'm heavily involved in fandom, but I see it differently. Probably because all the people making Star Wars right now were/are fans. And yeah, there are authors I know who do decorate their houses in Star Wars stuff, so... *shrug*

 

"Don't consume every aspect of my life"

 

Listen, just because I'd buy Star Wars toilet paper if it existed, doesn't mean I'm totally insane. Only a little bit.

[Driver]

Right-- but-- and this will sound totally snobby, and I know it-- these are authors who write things like Star Wars EU books or serialized genre, which is essentially licensed fanfics.

 

Again-- if you dig it, that's awesome and you can like what you like.

 

I just don't think Kubrick had a HAL9000 coffee table.

 

OR MAYBE HE DID

[ShadowDog]

No but he only owned one shirt at a time. His housekeeper laundered it every night and returned it to his otherwise empty closet every morning.

 

Strange dude.