Your Episode 7 Hope-O-Meter

[Stevil]

I just hope the internet doesn't overanalyse the films every flaw (perceived or real) for the next 16 years.

[Driver]

No promises

[Guest]

Those are unrealistic expectations!

 

Someone, somewhere on the internet is arguing about Step Up. Right now.

[The Choc]

I couldn't disagree more about whoever said that the stuff in TPM about taxes and trade routes were to make the story seem "weighty". It's the exact opposite. It was supposed to seem stupid and insignificant. Qui Gon even says it's insignificant during the movie. That's the point that something so trivial could be exploited.

[DANA-kin Skywalker]

Let's not all pretend like we know why taxes, trade routes, senates, councils and stock exchanges were in the movie. Lucas didn't even understand the point of it.

 

The only significant things in the movie were to pickup little Darth Vader and give Palpatine political power.

[Pong Messiah]

I couldn't disagree more about whoever said that the stuff in TPM about taxes and trade routes were to make the story seem "weighty". It's the exact opposite. It was supposed to seem stupid and insignificant. Qui Gon even says it's insignificant during the movie. That's the point that something so trivial could be exploited.

While it's a clever idea, it has to be explained to viewers because the execution was so poor, and thus a failure.

 

The Death Star briefing scene feeds the viewer some important information, helps to establish important characters, and best of all, tantalizes the viewer with yet more questions.

[Stevil]

I understand that Trade Routes and Taxation isn't an exciting topic or a good undercurrent for a film but it did add some realism to the film.

 

All wars start with politics. That's a fact. It's always about politics. You can't say GL doesn't understand Politics because he has been an avid political supporter for most of his life. I think he wanted to create a believable ascension for Palpatine and also, inevitibly, a believable reason to go to war. It's not written blind or without thought. It's just perhaps unentertaining and not executed brilliantly. But it makes it more real if you are going to explain how the Clone Wars came about. Don't forget it is the beginning of a conflict that led to the Empire's rule. He couldn't really start in the middle of it again like he did in ANH in my opinion. So I can understand his need to explain all of this to give it a credible beginning.

 

Having said all of that. What is perhaps less believable is the fact that Palpatine could get away with all of this right under the noses of the Jedi. Just explaining that the force was clouded and having it so that they can't detect even a little dark side in Palpatine was what detracted from the story in my opinion. It was almost like Palpatine had the ability to turn his dark side on and off at a whim. Just like in the Lego Star Wars Cartoons where he can switch his head around and be someone else. I think that parody was there for a reason.

[Driver]

Yeaaaaah but the politics of the OT were backstory that sparked a simple chain of fun events and action.

 

The politics of the Republic, the role of Jedi, the inner workings of galactic commerce, the nature of the force-- everything got midichlorianated. I'm not saying you can't have a movie that goes deep-- but when it flies in the face of the type of movies already established and is horribly execute to boot. It is a total failure.

[Driver]

Here's my actual hope-- TFA is good enough that we can all stop talking about the PT. I hate myself for being so effected by a movie for 16 years

[DANA-kin Skywalker]

Trade Routes and Taxation

...sounds like the title of a textbook or something that nobody would otherwise want to read just for fun.

[Guest El Chalupacabra]

 

Trade Routes and Taxation

...sounds like the title of a textbook or something that nobody would otherwise want to read just for fun.

 

Sounds like homework.

[pavonis]

Sounds like fun.

[Mara Jade Skywalker]

Here's my actual hope-- TFA is good enough that we can all stop talking about the PT. I hate myself for being so effected by a movie for 16 years

Dear God, this.

[Dark Wader]

 

At this point I'm just hoping Harrison Ford doesn't sleepwalk through the entire film.

I have to say-- after Crystal Skull I was worried too-- but everything we've seen of him-- in terms of him doing most of the press stuff, and in the trailers-- he seems more animated than he's been in years.

 

I gotta admit, I thought Harrison Ford was the only good thing about Crystal Skull. Part of the reason I have faith in him doing Han Solo well is that he did a good job of Indy - he was the only one in involved in Indy 4 that seemed to be putting one ounce of effort in at all. I think he was just let down by everything else, but I think his love of the character does show.

 

Actually a little OT but wasn't one of his conditions to Disney on doing Star Wars was that they would do Indy 5?

[Pong Messiah]

Just saw Revenge of the Sith with no sound, and goddamn if it doesn't have even less weight than many animated films when it can't lean on Ben Burtt's magical noisemaking abilities. Worse than that, it really amplifies the impression that the actors don't know who they are talking to or the environments they are navigating.

 

Oddly, while it served as a painful reminder of the prequels' shortcomings, it makes me more hopeful for The Force Awakens.

[The Choc]

Why would anyone watch a movie with no sound?

[Pong Messiah]

We time rehearsal to well-known action/sf/fantasy movies. Everybody knows what's going on, so dialogue isn't necessary, it's good for atmosphere, and it provides a good stopping point (just don't use the LotR movies).

 

The thing is, even the original Mad Max still looks real -- look up between tunes and you can tell what the characters are emoting and that they're actually talking to one another. Same holds true for something more fantastical like The Avengers. Yeah, even though it's only a few years old, some of the the CGI is starting to fray -- but the interactions with other characters and the environment still has some heft to it. This was not the case at all with Revenge of the Sith.

[Pong Messiah]

Anyhow, the point is just that what I'm most excited for in The Force Awakens is actual sets and practical effects. Regardless of how good or bad the characters and story are, I think this movie is going to have a great look and feel.

[Stevil]

It is a total failure.

By any standard metric... it wasn't though was it?

 

Phantom Menace - £983,000,000 Worldwide Gross

Attack of the Clones - £640,000,000 Worldwide Gross

Revenge of the Sith - £848,000,000 Worldwide Gross

 

Everyone one of them made money and more money than they cost to make and more money than most things to be honest. We could debate the flaws all day long, we could say "It only did well becasuse it's Star Wars". But the cold hard truth is that the Star Wars Prequels made a shit load of money. And that's the only thing that matters really. That means they're profitable and makes it appealling to Disney.

 

In some people's eyes it could mean that you could put out any old shit and put a Star Wars Badge on it. But comparitively speaking, prior to maybe Guardians of the Galaxy, they were probably the best Science Fantasy offerings we'd had since the original Star Wars. Even as flawed as they were.

[Pong Messiah]

Disagree that money is the only thing that matters.

 

Also, The Fifth Element, despite some highly questionable choices in the third act, was far better than any of the prequels. FACT.

[Driver]

Failure:

 

I repeat my ongoing thesis that despite that money, not including hardcore Star Wars fans and children, very very few people like the PT.

[ShadowDog]

I totally feel you Driver. Trust me.

 

However, this is a business first. Business wise, it was a complete success. It made a shit ton of money. AND people may have hated it but that hatred apparently isn't going to keep people from paying to see the next installment. So the PT accomplished everything you want from a business POV.

 

Now an artistic failure? Hell yeah. Completely.

 

It's like the Asylum movies, Sharknado franchise specifically. I have zero respect for them or the company. But they make money. Period. So they're doing what they should be doing from a business POV

[Tex]

The only time I've ever felt brainwashed is when I went to see ROTS. I knew what was going to happen and I knew it was going to suck but I went anyway and laughed about how stupid I was for expecting anything otherwise.

 

So it's really hard to get excited about TFA. I hope they build the new characters up so that part 8 is something to look forward to. So far the trailers seem to resemble ANH a little too much for me.

[DANA-kin Skywalker]

That's the one thing I'm worried about, Tex...it being exactly like ANH.

[Stevil]

Disagree that money is the only thing that matters.

 

Also, The Fifth Element, despite some highly questionable choices in the third act, was far better than any of the prequels. FACT.

I love the Fifth Element. It's a great film. But I can't take it as fact unless I know if you watched it with the sound on or off??

 

Failure:

 

I repeat my ongoing thesis that despite that money, not including hardcore Star Wars fans and children, very very few people like the PT.

It's only a thesis! The numbers suggest it appealed to a much wider audience in the cinema. I wish I could get the DVD sales figures too because that would prove your theory wrong or right. However one thing I will say is that the SW Prequels get repeated quite often in th UK on British TV and they do very good numbers alongside their OT counterparts. Considering they 'probably' shifted a lot of units on DVD people still watch them when they come on the telly. That means that it appeals to more than just your demographic.

 

So, people keep watching out of morbid curiosity?

 

I have to say T, that I feel like we're having this discussion in reverse, Normally you're the one with the scientfiic reasoning when it comes to the industry!!

 

In other news... A friend of mine (non sci-fi nerd, movie goer and avid TV watcher) showed the 6 movies to his children recently in numerical order (1-6) and he commented on just how well it flowed. I was actually surprised that he had more questions about the OT than the PT during our regular TV/Film discussion. He's seen all the films loads of times in the past as well. This was just a recent re-viewing with the kids.

 

He also asked how a black guy can be a storm trooper in the new film when they're all supposed to look like Jango Fett!!