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Random predictions for ep7 and beyond *spoilers?*


DANA-kin Skywalker
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I don't think Luke went into hiding just to remain neutral. I think him, his family, and possibly some young trainees were being hunted by TFO. The young Jedi were not ready to face TFO so Luke took his school underground to prepare his young Jedi. The Force Awakens is when he feels they are ready.

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I predict that we will be underwhelmed by the lightsaber battle(s). The prequels set the bar high and spawned a whole generation of YouTube duelers. In TFA we're dealing with a Stormtrooper who may or may not be force sensitive and has had no clear training. We also get a Sith wannabe who by reasoning hasn't used his lightsaber against anything other than a blaster. So it won't be for a lack of trying on Abrams part. The situation kinda dictates it.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

You know what, if lightsaber duels in TFA are NOT flashy like the PT, that would be just fine with me.

 

I've always preferred the OT duels, particularly TESB, and that is no where near as flashy as the PT duels.

 

I think relative to the other characters, Kylo Ren will be a dueling master, though. He might not be a Sith Lord, but being a knight of Ren, and a presumed pupil of Snoke makes me think he has some level of badassery with the blade. Not to mention, it seems Rey and Finn are untrained in this movie. This is taking us back to Luke at ANH-level of training VS Vader. I can see Ren toying with Rey or Finn, like Vader did with Luke in TESB, then ending the duel on his terms when one of them gets a lucky shot in.

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You should be able to train against Droids and holograms.

 

I prefer the PT duels. It's the only thing they did better than the OT and it's not even close. Yes, the emotion of the final Luke Vader duel trumped anything in the PT but I'm talking visual awesomeness and excitement.

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But all the flipping and jumping and whirling and twirling completely took away the gravitas of being a Jedi blade master. Sure as a visual effects spectacle it was kind of impressive but to the detriment of any meaningful impact that lightsaber combat should have. No drama.

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Yup, Vader using the Force to hurl things at Luke in Empire was based on real world fighting!

 

The whole thing is ridiculous. Saying that one set of fights between people with super powers using lazer swords are more realistic than another set of fights between people with super powers using lazer swords is silly.

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Look. The OT saber battles were a product of their time. There's nothing wrong with that. But 16 years down the line the Qui Gon Jinn, Obi Wan Kenobi, and Darth Maul battle had to up the ante. Even the staunchest of Phantom Menace haters left the theater wowed by what they had seen. The biggest of Jim Brown fans looked at Barry Sanders and went "Damn!"

 

As far as the OT sabe battles being theater, there was no theater in what Prowse and Guinea did. Sure the Luke-Vader fights advanced the stories, but that was because there was dialogue through both of them. And i'll argue that was because there never any intention on Vader's part to kill Luke in ESB or the other way around in ROTJ. The prequel fights were pretty much all kill or be killed.

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Yeah, yeah, this debate has gone on forever. The prequels sucked in part because there was no story to back up the conflict. The OT fights were visually primitive, fine, but the movies were good. The prequel fights were well choreographed, but there was nothing emotionally pertinent happening to back them up. If there were they'd have been substantially more cool. It's just balance of the two, that's it.

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Sounds like its time to break out sabermetrics.

Well since Star Wars is owned by Disney, it wouldn't surprise me to see a sports science version on ESPN or Disney Kids about it.

 

My prediction was based off of circumstance in the films. Not saga biased. Based on what we know about the characters, the Finn-Kylo fight shouldn't be dynamic. Luke didn't use his lightsaber until the second film. By all rights Finn should get owned.

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Yup, Vader using the Force to hurl things at Luke in Empire was based on real world fighting!

 

The whole thing is ridiculous. Saying that one set of fights between people with super powers using lazer swords are more realistic than another set of fights between people with super powers using lazer swords is silly.

Actually, it is based on real world fighting. Sure, the "lazer swords" and "the Force" aren't real - but sword fighting and throwing things to injure/distract an opponent are real fighting techniques. Jumping up and down and acting like a Cirque de Soleil performer has no basis in any form of combat.

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I feel like Allen Iverson right now. "Real World? Man we talkin bout lightsabers. Lightsabers!"

 

I can only guess where Choc is coming from with his post, but to me if your enjoyment of lightsaber fights are contingent on their real world similarities then I don't know what to say. I was 5 when ESB came out. I was just as wowed then as I was when I saw TPM. They're lightsaber fights. They're all good in my book.

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I can accept that you like something that I didn't like, yet you and Choc both seem to struggle with the fact that other people might not like what you like.

 

You like the prequel fights, good for you, I found them to be yet another weakness of the prequels.

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I don't care what you like. I'm saying that if you like a fight between people with super powers fighting with lazer swords more than another because it's more realistic, thats silly. Neither has any realism at all. And since no one on earth has super powers there is no way to know how they would fight, so no way to know what would be realistic anyway.

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Of course fantasy can feel realistic if done correctly. It just has to obey it's own rules. When it doesn't, it sticks out like a sore thumb, and looks unrealistic because your suspension of disbelief is broken.

 

ESB example: Vader has superpowers, and you accept it when he force throws stuff at Luke because it is established he is a powerful force user, and because Luke is a rookie he gets cornered and loses his hand. Realistic.

 

TPM example: Kenobi and Maul are SO athletic and well trained in there swordsmanship they look like they are dance-fighting to a stalemate. That sets a precedent to what these guys are capable of, and you begin to wonder how one is going to defeat the other. It looked cool...until Maul got leap-frogged and sliced in half. Where did all that skill go? You see, Instead of just standing there, he didn't know to swing up when someone tries to jump over you. I guess nobody taught him that during his training. Thts how the movie broke it's own rules. Unrealistic. No screw that...it looked ridiculous. It's like the fight was choreographed by two different people-Nick Gillard did the fight, and the end was done by a producer's kid.

 

Anyways, getting back to predictions:

For better or worse TFA will make a sh!t-tillion dollars.

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You can make arguments like that in nearly any movie.

 

I mean in ANH no one picked up the Falcon on any kind of radar? The 2 TIEs that are there for the express purpose of watching Vaders rear, don't notice when a big old ship comes up from behind? Did they not properly adjust their rear view mirrors?

 

There are always going to be little things like that in movies like this that allow the good guys to win.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

The OT duels felt like theater.

The PT duels felt like a video game final boss fight.

 

Both work in their own way-- but the former is going to stick with you longer.

That pretty much sums it up right there.

 

Personally, I think the duels are the highlights of all the Star Wars movies, so I can't say I dislike any of them. I just happen to like the OT duels better than the PT ones. Duel of the Fates from TPM was probably the best duel so far of all the Star Wars movies from a technical and choreographical standpoint (at least it is to me), but TESB still remains my all time favorite duel. Through almost the entire duel, I get the sense that Vader is just toying with Luke the whole time, except when Luke happens to get a couple lucky shots in here and there. From the very beginning, Vader disarms Luke, and could have ended the duel at any time had he really wanted to, but the whole duel is a chess game, and the whole reason he doesn't just defeat Luke is he is trying to turn him. You can almost feel the terror Luke feels, and must try to control.

 

Sometimes less is more, and more flashy something is, it may be impressive in the short term, but in the long term, it can be forgettable, especially if a following movie has to try to "one up" its predecessor, like the PT movies end up doing with one another. That is why I am hoping TFA returns to a style more like the OT, especially TESB.

 

One question, has it been decided on what to call episodes 7-9, yet? It is NT for New Trilogy?

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Here's a new theory...

 

 

Rey, Finn, and Kylo, regardless of who their parents are, are all children of Jedi. Jedi that Luke taught-- that were killed or otherwise hunted. Like Luke an Leia, these three were put into hiding. This is about them coming back and realizing who they are.

 

One thing NO ONE has really talked about--

 

Do you guys think Kylo survives? Is he the new Vader or the new Maul?

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Guest El Chalupacabra

Here's a new theory...

 

 

Rey, Finn, and Kylo, regardless of who their parents are, are all children of Jedi. Jedi that Luke taught-- that were killed or otherwise hunted. Like Luke an Leia, these three were put into hiding. This is about them coming back and realizing who they are.

 

One thing NO ONE has really talked about--

 

Do you guys think Kylo survives? Is he the new Vader or the new Maul?

Interesting theory which I think I agree with. I have always thought that Rey was placed in hiding anyway. But perhaps Finn was too, but somehow ended up as a stormtrooper by accident. Which causes is ambivalence in the first place. As far as Kylo Ren, I am still holding onto the theory he is a Skywalker, which is why he is obsessed with Vader, his grandpa.

 

As for Kylo surviving, I think he will survive, because I think Snoke needs a henchman, and it would be too PT to just kill off Kylo Ren. General Hux might pull a Tarkin, though.

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