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And now time for the Democrats and their debate!


98 replies to this topic

#51
Pong Messiah

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Nearly fell asleep during the first Democratic hug-a-thon. Tell me if they get fighty. Otherwise, no interest.



#52
Justus

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You did not miss anything. Despite a couple of polls, Hillary is far too comfortable on stage to commit to any real debate, other than the same, tired talking points rubber stamped by the say anything cheerleader Debbie Wasserman-Schultz.



#53
Pong Messiah

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tonights shindig with sanders and clinton was pretty good

so much better than the debate format

#54
Carrie Mathison

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I stopped watching these (and to be honest, really paying attention to the Dem primary at all) after it became apparent that Sanders was going to be too much of a p-ssy to really go after Clinton in any meaningful way.

 

Anything change? 



#55
Pong Messiah

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Nah, not really. Bernie was all questioning her "progressive" credentials and bragged about how he's better on foreign policy cause he voted against going into Iraq, but that's about the extent of it.

What really strikes me watching Sanders is how, for a supposed "outsider," what a damn good politician he actually is, and how much more natural his delivery, body language, and overall comfort level comes off compared to Clinton. He has a lot of "uh, er, uh, der, uh," moments, but he's actually kind of turned it into a strength -- it plays into his anti-politician persona. Pretty awesome job!

Clinton started off almost manic, and basically blamed Bush for her Iraq vote, which was super weak. She should have just said if she knew then what she knew now, it would have been a different vote, and it won't be an issue if she is in office anyways, cause she'll have different advisers and no interest in adventurism, etc. -- quick, easy, done. Instead she invoked Bush like 5 times and even brought Hans Blix into it (twice, I think... who even remembers that dude?), and never really took responsibility. Total mess of gibberish. Other than that, she was pretty solid -- probably more so than Sanders, though she had less presence.

#56
Pong Messiah

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OMG HILLARY AND BERNIE ARE EXCHANGING PLEASANTRIES WITH THE MODERATORS NOW


what does this mean

#57
Pong Messiah

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lol theyre throwing haymakers

#58
Jacen123

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Instead she invoked Bush like 5 times and even brought Hans Blix into it (twice, I think... who even remembers that dude?), and never really took responsibility. Total mess of gibberish. Other than that, she was pretty solid -- probably more so than Sanders, though she had less presence.



#59
Ms. Spam

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I totes missed tonight's debate.



#60
Pong Messiah

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Both were pretty good, but at this point, it's not like anybody is going to change their minds on who they support unless one of these candidates commits a massive gaffe or gets hauled away in handcuffs.

Clinton was much stronger when it came to discussing foreign affairs and general Commander in Chiefery, and seemed to have a stronger alll-around command of the issues, but that's not gonna matter to anybody who supports Sanders.

Sanders of course shined when hammering Wall Street, big money in politics, income inequality, "the rest of the civilized world does these things, why don't we?"  how we need a political revolution, etc.  but that's not gonna matter to anybody who supports Clinton.
 

Maybe this debate would have mattered more had it happened like 4-5 months ago?



#61
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It would not surprise me one bit if Hillary gets the nomination, and Sanders gets the VP slot to pick up the anti-Hillary Dem voters.



#62
Ms. Spam

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Julian Castro for VP

also timing is everything, Pong, but I still think it's the same BS they have been touting since the beginning.

#63
Pong Messiah

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I still think it's the same BS they have been touting since the beginning. 

Oh, I totally agree. Camps/battle lines have been set for awhile. Competition has heated up to the point where there is genuine hostility between the more fervent Bernie and Hillary supporters; at that point, a lot of people are done listening/shifting.



#64
Carrie Mathison

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It would not surprise me one bit if Hillary gets the nomination, and Sanders gets the VP slot to pick up the anti-Hillary Dem voters.

Why would Clinton do that?  Those voters aren't pulling the lever for the GOP no matter what.  They either vote Clinton or they don't show up, and in the states where there's enough of them that not showing up actually means something, Clinton is already up probably at least 10 (if not 20) points and the GOP has no shot, no matter what happens.

 

Better for Clinton to pick a relatively moderate, old white dude.  Try and peel back some of the demographic that's been going hard for Trump.  That may actually matter in a state like OH.



#65
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Julian Castro for VP!

But if it is a Hillary Castro ticket I may go third party unless the GOP can get their **** together.

#66
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It would not surprise me one bit if Hillary gets the nomination, and Sanders gets the VP slot to pick up the anti-Hillary Dem voters.

Why would Clinton do that?  Those voters aren't pulling the lever for the GOP no matter what.  They either vote Clinton or they don't show up, and in the states where there's enough of them that not showing up actually means something, Clinton is already up probably at least 10 (if not 20) points and the GOP has no shot, no matter what happens.

 

Better for Clinton to pick a relatively moderate, old white dude.  Try and peel back some of the demographic that's been going hard for Trump.  That may actually matter in a state like OH.

 

I am not saying its going to happen, just that it wouldn't surprise me if it did, because Sanders polling pretty good right now.  He is receiving the surge because there is a significant amount of Dems who actually don't want Hillary because she is seen as establishment or seems she feels entitled to the presidency (which IMHO are dead on).  Basically, there are some dems that feel about Hillary, the same way some in the GOP felt about McCain or Romney.  Yeah, there are those who would vote for a cardboard cut out, instead of anyone from the GOP, but I think the people voting for Sanders instead of Hillary must feel strongly enough about it that some of them might actually stay home.  Bringing Sanders on the ticket would unite the Dems.  They aren't in as dire need of uniting as the GOP right now, but I am just saying that Clinton has taken a lot of hits, particularly this email scandal lately.  I still believe she can get elected, but it might be a bit closer now, and she could use all the help she can get.



#67
Ms. Spam

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Personally I think Bernie sounds like my grandpa and I'd love America's final fall as a super power to happen so we can move past this stage. So based on this poorly thought out logic electing Cruz or Trump will also complete this idea because essentially they're backward 50s throw backs that aren't going to push America into anything other than a social parody where when even a Frenchman sniffs at us in a restaurant no one will think poorly of the Frenchmen. Another words, Putin will be taken more seriously than Ayatollah Cruz.



#68
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I'd love America's final fall as a super power to happen so we can move past this stage. 

Seriously? I couldn't disagree more.  While I would love for the US to stop meddling in the affairs of nations' internal matters, acting in an immoral way, or interfering where there is no direct US interest (be it national defense, welfare and safety of US citizens, or the overall stability of a region where the US and its close allies are DIRECTLY affected), the world without the US as a superpower, and a leader on the world stage would be a disaster.  Unfortunately, in order for this to happen, you have to have a strong military.    I don't like the idea of being the world's policeman, but at the same time, if the US and the UN doesn't do it,you are going to have leaders like Putin fill that vacuum.  I know there is a certain amount of Putin love in the Lyceum, but the dude really is not someone you want calling the shots on the world stage.  Russia aside, the guy is basically not all that different than any other dictator. 



#69
Marc DuQuesne

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Personally I think Bernie sounds like my grandpa and I'd love America's final fall as a super power to happen so we can move past this stage. So based on this poorly thought out logic electing Cruz or Trump will also complete this idea because essentially they're backward 50s throw backs that aren't going to push America into anything other than a social parody where when even a Frenchman sniffs at us in a restaurant no one will think poorly of the Frenchmen. Another words, Putin will be taken more seriously than Ayatollah Cruz.

This is the problem with "progressives" these days when it comes to foreign policy. Rather than actually working to make progress happen they want everyone to pretend it has already occurred. "The world has changed" they tell me. Does the rest of the world know that?

 

Russia and China (and lots of others but those are the important ones) are playing the game like it's the 1900s. Without the U.S. and it's allies as a strong counter they will gobble up everything in their path. Russia is running mock nuclear strikes on Sweden every couple months. Their submarine force has surpassed activity levels from the cold war. China is building military sites in the South China Sea claimed by other nations and threatening US warships and aircraft.

 

Does anyone remember why ISIS is a real strategic threat to our interests? It has less to do with terror attacks than regional stability. And why has stability in that region always been important to the US and it's allies? Oil and RUSSIA...

 

Now, Russia has a big problem right now with oil prices the way they are. All the experts say that if a regional war broke out in the ME oil prices would go up to $200-$400. I wonder why Putin is accusing Turkey of making preparations to invade Syria... Yet the "progressives" say we should let Russia handle ISIS.

 

Now, go ahead and call me a fear monger.



#70
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Chalupa, I think we've hit the zenith and although militarily we are still a pretty good super power and we still broker deals like we did with Iran I think we're seeing the start of our descent to our nadir. This isn't really the thread to talk about this but can you imagine a open socialist like Bernie making it into the oval office? That would be bad.



#71
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Chalupa, I think we've hit the zenith and although militarily we are still a pretty good super power and we still broker deals like we did with Iran I think we're seeing the start of our descent to our nadir. This isn't really the thread to talk about this but can you imagine a open socialist like Bernie making it into the oval office? That would be bad.

Well, I couldn't address this without derailing this thread, so if you wanted to start another, I can answer in more detail there. 

 

But briefly, yes I agree the US is now likely entering a decline as the undisputed power, or more properly, other nations are just catching up economically, and technologically.  It's one thing to acknowledge this, it's completely another matter to actively hope and look forward to a decline.



#72
Ms. Spam

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Laugh out loud guys! Can you name 5 things Sanders and Trump have in common?



#73
Ms. Spam

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Chalupa, I think we've hit the zenith and although militarily we are still a pretty good super power and we still broker deals like we did with Iran I think we're seeing the start of our descent to our nadir. This isn't really the thread to talk about this but can you imagine a open socialist like Bernie making it into the oval office? That would be bad.

Well, I couldn't address this without derailing this thread, so if you wanted to start another, I can answer in more detail there. 

 

But briefly, yes I agree the US is now likely entering a decline as the undisputed power, or more properly, other nations are just catching up economically, and technologically.  It's one thing to acknowledge this, it's completely another matter to actively hope and look forward to a decline.

 

I tried to find CM's thread about this. I am pretty sure we've discussed this before. 

 

I think it is more of me trying to avoid school work but it is interesting as China's financial fortune maybe changing soon.



#74
Ms. Spam

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Laugh out loud guys! Can you name 5 things Sanders and Trump have in common?

I'm going with

 

  1. both old dudes
  2. they tend to stay on one singular point without veering from that path
  3. they have very strange hair
  4. both have been okay at their jobs for a while
  5. how many times has bernie been married?


#75
Ryn

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Laugh out loud guys! Can you name 5 things Sanders and Trump have in common?


New York?



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