The Walking Dead Season 6

[Driver]

 

I still think that fandom is terrible in that fans claim some sort of ownership over their stories and think they know best, and throw a fit when it doesn't go their way.

 

Have you grown since your days of hating on the PT or is there some difference I'm not seeing? I'm not being snarky, I'm honestly curious.

 

By "the days of hating on the PT" you mean last week?

 

Nobody's perfect Dexter.

 

Like I've said before-- when it comes to the PT, hypocrisy and being judgmental, two things I abhor, come out in spades. It's just scientific proof of how bad the PT is. It makes good men violate their own principles.

 

That said, I think that the completely and utter **** show of George Lucas writing and directing is something it is a lot harder to be subjectional about.

[Stevil]

Driver's still in mid-fit.

 

It's a long one...

[monkeygirl]

How many of you are new to television series? When has any show with a large following NOT had a cliffhanger at the end of each season?

 

Pretty sure TWD's ratings are looking good...

[ShadowDog]

Again ... not just about the cliffhanger but the way the fans were treated all season long.

[Odine]

And the fact that it'd still be a cliffhanger if we knew who was being killed. All that's happened is they've lost the moment they spent all episode-nay- SEASON building up to.

[monkeygirl]

Again ... not just about the cliffhanger but the way the fans were treated all season long.

They way fans were treated? Is television not passive entertainment any longer?? I am laughing out loud!

And the fact that it'd still be a cliffhanger if we knew who was being killed. All that's happened is they've lost the moment they spent all episode-nay- SEASON building up to.

So, you're not going to watch next season because of this? Really?

[Odine]

No I will probably still watch it. It wasn't enough to make me discontinue. I thought I explained my POV earlier?

[Jacen123]

I thought I explained my POV earlier?

In fitting fashion, we weren't sure whose stance that really was.

[Odine]

I saw what you done there!

[Justus]

 

Wish I could say the same for the rest of the internet, acting like TWD was their fiancee dumping them at the altar. A full day later and dudes are still throwing chairs all over the place -- even at poor Chris Hardwick, and all he did was openly like the show and the episode. Clearly we as a mob-based society must MAKE HIM PAY WITH F-WORDS.

This generation of fans feel entitled to property that they do not own or influence. Fans can complain if so motivated, but this crop seem on the edge of filing frivolous lawsuits against AMC for "screwing with fans" (somewhere George Lucas is laughing).

 

TWD can and will do what ever the producers desire because they know the ranting, self-absorbed fans will come back for more. Its like having your ass kicked after walking by a known dangerous, dark alley; you complain...only to keep walking by the same alley every night afterward as if you expect a different outcome.

 

Regarding Chris Hardwick--he's an easy target because he's such a EVERYTHIGISGREATANDIWILLTELLYOUWHYIN5..4..3..2.sort of sniveling motormouth. I've observed some of the guest actors or BTS people giving him odd glances from time to time. I think they might find him too much the pitchman.

[Pong Messiah]

 

Wish I could say the same for the rest of the internet, acting like TWD was their fiancee dumping them at the altar. A full day later and dudes are still throwing chairs all over the place -- even at poor Chris Hardwick, and all he did was openly like the show and the episode. Clearly we as a mob-based society must MAKE HIM PAY WITH F-WORDS.

This generation of fans feel entitled to property that they do not own or influence. Fans can complain if so motivated, but this crop seem on the edge of filing frivolous lawsuits against AMC for "screwing with fans" (somewhere George Lucas is laughing).

 

TWD can and will do what ever the producers desire because they know the ranting, self-absorbed fans will come back for more. Its like having your ass kicked after walking by a known dangerous, dark alley; you complain...only to keep walking by the same alley every night afterward as if you expect a different outcome.

 

Regarding Chris Hardwick--he's an easy target because he's such a EVERYTHIGISGREATANDIWILLTELLYOUWHYIN5..4..3..2.sort of sniveling motormouth. I've observed some of the guest actors or BTS people giving him odd glances from time to time. I think they might find him too much the pitchman.

 

Yeah, the current climate can be ridiculous.

 

Related issue: Do you remember what website it was that said they were no longer going to review GoT because it had exceeded its rape quota? And who is it now that is threatening to boycott TWD because it has now killed too many open lesbians (and what about the 90+ other speaking characters that have had horrible demises)? Or that reviewer (I think for Time) who spends more time complaining about how the soldier in FTWD gave up important intel under torture b/c "everybody" knows torture never works and it's dangerous to make people think it might?

 

So now, our movies and televisions shows not only have to entertain us, they have to cater to our preconceptions of how events should unfold while simultaneously chirping a crystalline pure form of our own moral values/beliefs back to us as well.

 

On one hand, I truly believe television has never been better than it is today, but on the other... I don't think showrunners and writers have ever had so many petulant demands placed on them from so many different interests, either.

[ShadowDog]

Anything can be taken too far obviously. But the fact that almost every tv Lesbian couple ends in bloody death for one of them is some bullshit. Maybe a tv show could pave a bold new path and ... like ... not do that?

 

When show runners weren't accountable we got shit like Bobby in the shower in the show Dallas. I like that's there's some accountability these days.

[Pong Messiah]

Anything can be taken too far obviously. But the fact that almost every tv Lesbian couple ends in bloody death for one of them is some bull****. Maybe a tv show could pave a bold new path and ... like ... not do that?

Or maybe, just maybe, you shouldn't expect a show with a history of killing pretty much anybody not named "Rick" and maybe "Carl" (whose invincibility I'm quickly becoming convinced of) to spare somebody on account of their race/gender/sexuality. Yes, I know Abraham is the one who got it in the comics (I imagine they are keeping him around a little longer for something), but with the possible exception of GoT -- which frankly is running out of decent people to kill -- this is the only show on television where pretty much anybody can bite it at any moment.

 

At least for me, that's a big part of what I love and hate about this show. Dale is cool (can't stop thinking of him as "Dale" on both The Affair and Billions btw)... then he walks out into the field and randomly dies because of stupid Carl. You think Hershel's gonna die from biteitis, but they hack his leg off and save him... only to see him get nearly decapitated later on. I hate hate hate that that happened, but I'd hate it even more if I felt the show started kid-gloving certain characters because they were afraid somebody on the Internet might shriek at them.

 

Now, this isn't to say I don't agree with your point in most contexts. If this was say, the aforementioned Billions, and it introduced a lesbian couple who then die three episodes later in a tragic crane accident, I think the complaint would be totally legit -- OH come on! MORE DEAD LESBIANS?!? This show hardly kills off anybody and you go and pick those two?!? -- but on TWD, you are going to kill the gay characters... and the African American characters... and the Latino American characters... and the Native American characters, the Asian American characters, the (if they ever appear) transgender characters, the atheists, the religious, and, well, all the characters not named "Rick" and maybe "Carl." That's just how it is.

 

Telling TWD to "stop and be more sensitive" is like trying to reason with the scorpion waiting in your shoe and defeats the purpose, as success would change its fundamental nature.

 

When show runners weren't accountable we got **** like Bobby in the shower in the show Dallas. I like that's there's some accountability these days.

Yeah, this absolutely is one of the good aspects of fans being so connected with and invested in their media nowadays.

 

It's really shocking to go back and watch some of the shows I have nostalgia for. The vast majority of the time, they feel like by-committee deadlined garbage and I walk away so deflated, if not utterly embarrassed for my warm feelings. Dear lord, I hope I never get a hold of Misfits of Science, season 1.

[DANA-kin Skywalker]

It's not Rick. The show is built around that character. Killing him is like boiling the ocean.

 

Darryl is possible but...no.

 

Abraham is possible, but I sure hope not. He had the funniest lines on the show.

 

Micchone is not only possible but very likely.

 

Even more likely than her is Eugene. His character arc came to an end, and the whole finale seemed like a nice send off for him. He even passed his greatest contribution, plans for a bullet factory. He's the weakest link in the chain. He's my pick as the most likely beat-down recipient. The only evidence that doesn't point in his direction is that it is too obviously him, that it might not be.

 

Sasha or Rosita are tied for third. But, there's still enough drama there for interesting television, especially if Abraham makes it.

 

Glenn...nah. Too many fake-outs already, It's just not interesting to kill him now in dramatic cliff-hanger fashion.

 

I think killing Carl would be most interesting. It would devastate Rick the most. You saw him hulk out when he got his eye shot out. Imagine how he'd react if he was murdered, and was forced to sit still an watch? The blowback from that would be a very interesting story, to say the least.

[Pong Messiah]

Yeah, can't be Rick.

I don't think it's Daryl, but as has been pointed out, Norman Reedus has a new show...

 

I don't think it's Abraham, either. They swapped his death out already, so I can only imagine they are keeping him around for something more important than being cliffhanger meat.

 

I'd be heartbroken if it's Michonne. It took a long time for her to grow on me, but she's one of my favorites now and she still has a lot of room to develop. I know this is a superscary dangerous and deadly world, but I like her enough so that I'm willing to disregard my pro-"kill everybody but Rick and maybe Carl" values and play the trope card: come on, do we really need to start a doomsday countdown on everybody who gets in a relationship with a lead character?

 

Eugene would definitely be the softball, as he has been set up real good. He works almost too well.

 

Maggie would show that Neegan is even OK with killing a sick, pregnant woman. Don't think it's her, though, plus we already know Neegan is horrible.

 

Agreed that we don't have enough with Sasha and Rosita to make their deaths more, uh (pardon the pun), impactful. Make me care about these co-stars first, then kill them. Like Dale or Tyreese (but unlike Tyreese, don't just kill one of them 'cause you have writer's block and are on deadline)...

 

Glenn works and is another softball, but I agree it'd be cheap with all the fakeouts.

 

They better not hurt Carl. Keep him alive, if only to torment MG (oh, and I guess to provide Rick with an anchor and excuse to return to a semi-human state)...

[Driver]

Maggie or Michonne.

[Guest El Chalupacabra]

I'm thinking it's Rosita. Abraham and Sasha have ugliness to bump.

 

Or they can end up following the comic.

[Stevil]

I think it's really weird. It's like there are sections of people out there who are keeping databases of who's Gay, who's Black, who's Female and there's an instant reaction if something is perceived to not go their way in entertainment media.

 

I think their reactions are almost as bad as discrimination itself. It's creating divides and they are using social media to rallying perhaps the uninformed to their cause.

 

I'll give you an example... The Academy are perceived to be racist because there wasn't enough black actors nominated for awards at The Oscars. Whether you agree with this or not is immaterial. It's the over-the-top reaction it sparked that was the problem. Case in point was Beyonce's black power army at the Superbowl. Could you imagine a white artist doing a white power demonstration at the nation's greatest sporting event? The irony wasn't lost on me. Did anyone point out that she didn't have enough white dancers in her troupe to be representative?

 

It begs the question... do celebrities have enough power to make political statements? Do they have the right? I believe everyone has the right to make a point but not everyone has the opportunity to do it in front of the largest televised audience. I felt like she was abusing her celebrity a little bit. There won't be any criticism though because that would be racist...

 

Sorry about going off track a little there but my point about The Walking Dead is when I watch the show I see people and characters. I don't see colour or sexuality or religion. I respect that these are part of the make-up of the characters but it's not what I'm watching. When Denise died I was shocked and it was very sad. But I wasn't thinking about her sexuality. I was sad for her other half who is off on a mission and didn't know about her death. But I would have been equally sad if she had a boyfriend. It wasn't an issue. I care about people. I don't segregate them into groups or minorities.

 

If a lot of same-sex relationships are being killed off, I have to say I wasn't counting. Maybe it needs to be looked at? Would a long-term same-sex relationship benefit the show or media in general? It's not something I really think about. I wouldn't mind at all though. I like good wholesome relationships on screen full stop no matter the make-up.

 

I would much rather Denise was still alive though, but because she was the town medic/doctor. That was who she was to me. Not another lesbian. She could have at least tried to help Maggie.

[ShadowDog]

I'll give you an example... The Academy are perceived to be racist because there wasn't enough black actors nominated for awards at The Oscars.

You meant none were nominated, right?

 

And you meant 2 years in a row, right?

 

Given that, I think it's fair to be irritated.

[Stevil]

please don't misunderstand me. It's the reaction that I think is over the top.

 

So next year who will get the automatic black nominations??

[Justus]

Maggie or Michonne.

Not Maggie--she's turning into leader material, but in baby steps, so she still has "stuff and thangs" to do.

 

On the other hand, i've said I think Michonne will be the one. As everyone knows, her death robs Rick of the only real love he's known since Lori, and devastate her surrogate son Carl, which would play into Carl possibly being the ticking time bomb, if he starts hanging around Negan.

[monkeygirl]

I think it's really weird. It's like there are sections of people out there who are keeping databases of who's Gay, who's Black, who's Female and there's an instant reaction if something is perceived to not go their way in entertainment media.

 

I think their reactions are almost as bad as discrimination itself. It's creating divides and they are using social media to rallying perhaps the uninformed to their cause.

 

I'll give you an example... The Academy are perceived to be racist because there wasn't enough black actors nominated for awards at The Oscars. Whether you agree with this or not is immaterial. It's the over-the-top reaction it sparked that was the problem. Case in point was Beyonce's black power army at the Superbowl. Could you imagine a white artist doing a white power demonstration at the nation's greatest sporting event? The irony wasn't lost on me. Did anyone point out that she didn't have enough white dancers in her troupe to be representative?

 

It begs the question... do celebrities have enough power to make political statements? Do they have the right? I believe everyone has the right to make a point but not everyone has the opportunity to do it in front of the largest televised audience. I felt like she was abusing her celebrity a little bit. There won't be any criticism though because that would be racist...

 

Sorry about going off track a little there but my point about The Walking Dead is when I watch the show I see people and characters. I don't see colour or sexuality or religion. I respect that these are part of the make-up of the characters but it's not what I'm watching. When Denise died I was shocked and it was very sad. But I wasn't thinking about her sexuality. I was sad for her other half who is off on a mission and didn't know about her death. But I would have been equally sad if she had a boyfriend. It wasn't an issue. I care about people. I don't segregate them into groups or minorities.

 

If a lot of same-sex relationships are being killed off, I have to say I wasn't counting. Maybe it needs to be looked at? Would a long-term same-sex relationship benefit the show or media in general? It's not something I really think about. I wouldn't mind at all though. I like good wholesome relationships on screen full stop no matter the make-up.

 

I would much rather Denise was still alive though, but because she was the town medic/doctor. That was who she was to me. Not another lesbian. She could have at least tried to help Maggie.

Celebrities have the right to make any statement they wish to make, just like the rest of us. Your insistence that if a white artist did what Bey did, they'd be looked at differently is ironic in itself. Are you really trying to say this is reverse-racism?

 

I think technology and the fact that it's made TV and movie producers instantly accessible to fans has made it much easier for people to tell them what they'd like to see on their screens and that many people want to see things better represented isn't surprising to me. I don't think anything but the delivery method has changed; I feel these people have always contacted these shows, just in hand-written form before the internet and we didn't have access to all of them-we didn't see those letters like we do now. I don't see anything wrong with this.

 

What I think has changed-and I'm struggling with this concept in my daily life-is that many people think BECAUSE we have the internet and this kind of access that the people we can now contact immediately somehow have an obligation to answer us back immediately or have an obligation to fulfill our requests. I reject this notion 100%.

 

I also disagree that the latest reaction to the Oscar nominees was over-the-top. This isn't the first time the Academy has been accused of this and this year they really had a tone of films to choose from with plenty of not white actors in them. You truly can't see the bias here?

[Stevil]

I agree that celebrities have the right to make statements and I think I said as much. But I also think they have a responsibility when making those statements. Some mega-stars like Beyonce (who I personally like and only used as a point of reference) have the ability to influence so many people. So with that influence comes responsiibility. It's probably fair to say that if a celebrity of that magnitude says something, more people would listen than if it came from Obama.

 

Her statement was dangerous to me because I think she was trying to say it was OK to be militant and it was almost a call to arms in response to the perceived racism from the haughty-taughty Academy. (I say perceived because there is no evidence of an agenda. It's just been noticed that there weren't enough nominations). Would armies of Black Panthers springing up everywhere as a result not be alarming to you?

 

I don't know if what Beyonce did was reverse racism but you can sure as hell be sure that if a white artist showed up with an army of white dancers someone would point out that's 'not representative'. Similarly if they turned up with backing dancers wearing white power symbols we would be in a whole world of hate.

 

Th Academy are not blameless. I think they are out of touch with films, nevermind general culture. Some of the films they award are just terrible (The Hurt Locker anyone?) and it's nothing but a pat on the back parade sometimes for their favourites and affiliates. I think that statistically there should have been more black nominations in the past two years. But can you think of any specific performances that warranted a nomination? Nothing came close to Di Caprio this year as far as I can tell so they got that bit right. But then I don't pay them too much attention.

 

Social Media is to blame for everything and that sense of 'entitlement' you speak of is part of the problem. The other part is when people are given a voice and have a say without fear of recrimination. People can be influenced by their belief systems. And it's not a simple as you believe the world is round and someone says the world is round so you agree with them. People can encourage and influence people to see their point of view just by tapping in to their belief systems. Unfortunately we have many sheep out there willing to follow people with perhaps not the right ideas and the internet gives them the platform and power base like never before. Not all of it is bad. In fact the internet and collective power has been used to make changes for good.

 

In the UK we can start a petition and if it gets more than so many signatures then it gets heard in parliament. The recent opening of the inquests in to the Hillsborough disaster is a great example of this being used for the right reasons and to effect positive change.

 

But you all know about the hate that gets spread online when something doesn't go their way and using their influence people can encourage others to do the same. I take your point about letter writing but it's so much easier to do it online nowadays or even to 'Like' and 'Favourite' things to show support. Or even to sound off to your 'followers' or to post something to your 'friends' (you know like those 600 people on your facebook you 'know' ).

 

I think I would have more sympathy for some of the things complained about like poor Denise the Doomed Lesbian Redshirt if it was presented in a sensible way. But I can't abide the hate or the backlash or any sort of over-the-top reaction. (Don't get me started on Sansa Stark again!). the difficulty for me is that there is no happy medium or compromise. I can imagine the showrunner meetings...

 

OK guys... what are we doing for the next episode? Lets consult the checklist: No Lesbians can die; We need to have the correct number of Women/Men Ratio, Blacks and [insert Ethnic Minority of the Week]; DEFINITELY no women involved in rape; [insert Black Actors Name] must get extra screen time so he can deliver his nomination worthy performance and any Aliens we cast must sound like Straight White Americans in case we are accused of racial/homophobic stereotyping. So... Where are we with the story?

 

So I'm a little bit over the top in my metaphors, but I think I'm trying to say you can't please everyone.

[monkeygirl]

Deep thoughts! Lemme digest this a bit before I respond again

[Driver]

There's no such thing as reverse racism.