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And of course I'm not saying that simply NOT NAMING shooters is going to solve all problems.

 

I'm just sayin' that, given how posthumous notoriety is a prime goal of so many of these people, maybe giving them what they want serves to inspire others who feel similarly?

No ONE thing will solve this, I think because no ONE thing caused it. Many nations have guns but don't do this to each other like we do. This is the only reason I go off on the people who yell "get rid of the guns!" because it will solve nothing, IMO. I think we need a comprehensive, concerted, long-term approach.

 

But noteriety is the one thing that MAY be unique to us-Great Britain does this, too, but their size and gun culture is SO different from ours.

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One of the things we haven't yet tried, that I'd like to see happen is the de-glorification of these shootings in the media. Does anyone else think if these were handled like anything else and we didn

I don't trust college kids with anything sharp, either. Bringing more than two college students together causes the maturity level to fall through the floor and the drama level to go through the roof.

He said that a high-profile mass-shooting (Charleston church) was his "tipping point," and expressed admiration for the Virginia Tech and Columbine shooters.   He also posted all that shit on social m

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Many nations have guns but don't do this to each other like we do.

Yeah, it's ****ing creepy weird when you think about it. There have been shootings in school since forever; lover's quarrels, accidents, teachers shooting students they don't like and vice-versa.

 

But these deliberate, systematic massacres... do you see any of those before the mid 1960s? You have Whitman in 1966 (who, btw was on brain pills with a prescription for Dexedrine) killing 17 people and a copycat shooting a few weeks later. Then you have to fast-forward to the early 1990s before it starts becoming a thing with actual patterns and profiles emerging.

 

When and why the **** did that happen? I was taught gun safety and respect as a kid. I had a few friends who could never remember to put the safety back in "safe" position after setting the rifle down, or less often and worse, ones who felt a need to clown as soon as they got near anything that went boom, but there really wasn't anything too unsettling about the experience. Some stupidity that made me feel unsafe, yes, but hell no would I ever suspect any of my classmates of becoming a mass murderer down the road. Most of us had easy access to guns, sometimes lots of guns, and there was never any fear we'd get mad and start shooting each other. Not even in the realm of possibility.

 

Several weeks ago, a friend who has two kids (14 and 17) told me that they both have a mental list of "potential exploders" at school. Now, I doubt this is something that they stay up at night worrying about, but it just blows my mind that they even think about it at all. It's like there is no middle ground for grievance -- I mean, kids are terrified to throw a punch, even in retaliation, 'cause that could get them suspended until the rapture, but meanwhile they're making contingency plans for when certain classmates come back and shoot everybody who "wronged" them?!?

 

:confused:

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I'm going to blame the Internet and a bad economy. I'll take the latter first.

 

World being what it is, kids get frustrated when they see how hard it is to live in the shadow of their parents. Can't blame them for feeling that way, because they're looking at massive student debt even if they want to try. They simply don't have what their parents had in terms of opportunities, which sucks, but they're not worldly enough to see that it's not their fault. More importantly they don't have the tools to adapt because they're so young.

 

As for the former they wind up on the internet trying to find some answers. Why not? That's what all kids do. For most of us it's just a way to pass the time, but for kids it's a become a way of life. They can easily find someone to agree with whatever misguided views they have and when they do so they become further poisoned by it.

 

Add it all up (along with some bad really bad parenting) and I can totally see it. These are the same kids that join ISIS. Whatever it takes to troll the establishment, at the expense of progress and human lives.

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World being what it is, kids get frustrated when they see how hard it is to live in the shadow of their parents. Can't blame them for feeling that way, because they're looking at massive student debt even if they want to try. They simply don't have what their parents had in terms of opportunities, which sucks, but they're not worldly enough to see that it's not their fault. More importantly they don't have the tools to adapt because they're so young.

I'd take this a step further:

 

Do you think the fact that these kids have been taught from birth by the media, society, their teachers, parents, etc. that they are super special ("it's all about me!") and entitled to trophies just for breathing factors in?

 

When they get older and can't afford the things they think they deserve, when they realize they need (or will need) a job in order to survive... and it isn't one they think they deserve, when the girls they think they deserve aren't the slightest bit interested in them, etc... does that factor in?

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Guest El Chalupacabra

 

World being what it is, kids get frustrated when they see how hard it is to live in the shadow of their parents. Can't blame them for feeling that way, because they're looking at massive student debt even if they want to try. They simply don't have what their parents had in terms of opportunities, which sucks, but they're not worldly enough to see that it's not their fault. More importantly they don't have the tools to adapt because they're so young.

I'd take this a step further:

 

Do you think the fact that these kids have been taught from birth by the media, society, their teachers, parents, etc. that they are super special ("it's all about me!") and entitled to trophies just for breathing factors in?

 

When they get older and can't afford the things they think they deserve, when they realize they need (or will need) a job in order to survive... and it isn't one they think they deserve, when the girls they think they deserve aren't the slightest bit interested in them, etc... does that factor in?

 

I think that is something that is actually a very important factor, and I think the rise in shootings has happened in parallel in the rise in lessened personal responsibility, and the rise in narcissism. I also wonder, and this is a chicken and egg argument (e.g. is it that they are crazy to begin with, or that the meds make them even more crazy), if the rise in prescription RI antidepressants has something to do with it, as well. Some people, particularly immature brains experience the opposite intended effect, causing violent reactions. In any event, I think there is an argument to be made that young people no longer have a sense of responsibility (both for themselves...it's always someone else's fault) or the sense of doing something responsible that earns legitimate respect and accolades, and yet there is a rise in showering younger people with undue reward. In essence, you have people who are emotionally immature, but also self absorbed, and think they deserve much more than they actually do.

 

Another thing is, this "kid" is 26 years old. He's a grown ass man, so there is absolutely no excuse for this Oregon shooting. But he is still worrying about what people think of him, and turning to social media for validation by largely online strangers. He craved attention, and did get a lot of anonymous attention, much of it telling him to go through with the shooting. This seems like something a 14 year old ought to be worrying about, not a 26 year old. That makes me wonder if this narcissism and need for social media validation is a form of arrested mental development, and if that is the case, I wonder if we have a whole generation who is suffering from the same thing, in some degree or another. If so, that is a truly sad thing, and I wonder if there is any solution to that at all.

 

That said, you know what is totally ironic is that this shooter went on a shooting spree because he felt he wasn't special, and wasn't famous and wanted to gain notoriety, even if it was doing something evil. So what does this idiot do: to gain notoriety, he does like hundreds before him did and goes on a shooting spree. He's not a unique and special snowflake, even after this shooting. He's just a freak of the week. By next week, though, except for people directly affected, and the communities near this shooting, people will largely forget it even happened.

 

Maybe one way to handle this is NOT to let everyone know the names of shooters like this. http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/01/us/oregon-college-shooting/

"I will not name the shooter," Hanlin said. "I will not give him the credit he probably sought."

 

This shooter's name has been released anyway, because the press feels the public has a right to know. In some sense, they do, and it is only natural to want to know. But I think maybe since this type of crime has become so common place, the press should actively suppress the name. They can tell us all the details without giving the name itself. Knowing the name isn't going to help me understand anything more about the guy. What is sad is more people know the name of the shooter, than that of Chris Mintz, the guy who tried to hold the door closed to keep the shooter out and possibly saved lives. So, I think yes, cover the event. Cover even what type of person the shooter is, but don't mention his name. Maybe that will help prevent some shooters seeking notoriety.

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Ooh, the antidepressants thing. I definitely think that plays into it. I've been shocked at how many people I know that have been on that shit at some point. Definitely over prescribed and very dangerous stuff.

 

The thing about life is that sometimes you're supposed to be depressed. It's usually not a medical condition, it's the brain's way of saying "sit this one out and live to fight another day". Basically walk it off, kid. Learn to cope.

 

If you pump this crap into a kid and think it's going to fix the problem you're wrong. You're only delaying it, and probably making it harder for them in the long run.

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Agreed. Depression is a REAL thing, and meds do help it, when properly prescribed. The thing is I think meds are over-prescribed, especially when these drugs are designed around an adult brain, and prescribed to children, adolescents, and young adults whose brains may not be fully formed, yet. Also, in a world where social media and also just the overall environment has changed to that of instant gratification and rewarding young people with more than deserved attention, I think kids are just not learning to cope with adversity in their lives like they used to.

 

I also agree with the delaying aspect. Once these kids reach adulthood, and then actually have to deal, the cement is dried in many cases, so I think to a point, they aren't able to learn how to cope with things, the same way as they could have when they were younger. It's not impossible to learn to cope, and it certainly does not excuse crimes and murder like this event, but I think it is a factor.

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I think people cower away from the gun discussion in this country because it's a social disease that would have to be fought on too many fronts. Yes, the NRA has the ability silence relevant discussion on the legislative front, but like you guys have said: what are the factors that feed into these (usually) white, male's psychological breaking point? Where the only means of expressing one's self and one's pain is to lash out violently. I agree that there's an all too common, lethal combination of over/badly-medicated, 5-minutes-of-internet-fame culture, combined with this growing notion of society seemingly "owing" us something, and then failing to deliver on that "promise".

I mean, all you gotta do is look at what's-his-name who targeted girls because they "rejected" him. It's a sad, lost, little child behind the wheel of a broken, adult machine who doesn't have to look very hard to find a tool for taking lives.

And regarding the subject title: yes, I think we're desensitized as a nation. Mass shootings have become like hurricanes, and the fact that we're starting to see it that way (to me) is the scariest part of the whole thing.

Also, there's no doubt in my mind that (and this will never happen) if news media outlets all agreed to make no mention of the killer's name these incident's would decrease... because, of course, it's about attention. It's about violence too. The violence itself and the thought of the reaction of the world at large, and of their (the shooter's) impending death (by suicide or by cop) all momentarily quell the pain.

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Agreed. Depression is a REAL thing, and meds do help it, when properly prescribed. The thing is I think meds are over-prescribed, especially when these drugs are designed around an adult brain, and prescribed to children, adolescents, and young adults whose brains may not be fully formed, yet. Also, in a world where social media and also just the overall environment has changed to that of instant gratification and rewarding young people with more than deserved attention, I think kids are just not learning to cope with adversity in their lives like they used to.

 

I also agree with the delaying aspect. Once these kids reach adulthood, and then actually have to deal, the cement is dried in many cases, so I think to a point, they aren't able to learn how to cope with things, the same way as they could have when they were younger. It's not impossible to learn to cope, and it certainly does not excuse crimes and murder like this event, but I think it is a factor.

You pretty much nailed it there. I remember being a depressed kid and it totally prepared me for adult life. If I had been whacked out on meds I would be a completely different person now, and not for the better. Social media would've made it even worse.

 

Now, though, you're right. You can blast away at someone on social media and get the instant gratification, but we didn't have that growing up. If you had an issue with someone you said it face to face or harbored it for another day. Sometimes whilst harboring you realized you were the one at fault and matured a bit in the process.

 

I have no doubt that all of these shooters fell victim to this. The modern world, combined with lazy parenting, can create monsters. These people would rather Butch and Sundance it rather than live a productive life, and for what? Absolutely nothing.

 

As for the gun issue, I'll simply say this. I'm not a gun guy, but I understand the importance of the second amendment. I think the real issue is the psyche of young frustrated males. Why are they unhappy? Why are they willing to give their lives to take other lives? It's insanity. It's pure misery. There is something about the way they are brought up that leads them to this, and you can't fix that by simply banning guns or giving them an anti depressant.

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GUESSING, totally guessing, but if I had ultimate power, here are the things I'd look at:

 

High-count magazine and fully automatic weapons for anyone who wants one (Not sure how to regulate this-but let's at least STUDY these)

 

FORCE the NRA to allow studies they don't want done.

 

Mental illness-what can we do to change HIPAA laws to allow us to address individuals that everyone associated with describe as "ticking time bombs"-again not sure what address means-follow them? Force them into therapy?

 

Entitlement issues as mentioned here-a trophy for everyone, you're a special snowflake

 

How society treats men-the macho image-hide feelings

 

Media-and I think this is a BIG one-video games, music, news-all of it. We need to STOP desensitizing humans to violence with almost every image they see from birth. I believe most stable people aren't affected by it to the point they'd go on a shooting spree, but this is a well-know, well-documented, effective tool the military uses to inure soldiers to killing people they don't know.

 

Get rid of Wayne La Pierre

 

Take money out of politics, outlaw lobbying

 

Serious studies on substances fed to us, INCLUDING food.


I think people cower away from the gun discussion in this country because it's a social disease that would have to be fought on too many fronts. Yes, the NRA has the ability silence relevant discussion on the legislative front, but like you guys have said: what are the factors that feed into these (usually) white, male's psychological breaking point, where the only means of expressing one's self and one's pain is to lash out violently. I agree that there's an all too common, lethal combination of over/badly-medicated, 5-minutes-of-internet-fame culture, combined with this growing notion of society seemingly "owing" us something, and then failing to deliver on that "promise".

I mean, all you gotta do is look at what-his-name who targeted girls because they "rejected" him. It's a sad, lost, little child behind the wheel of a broken, adult machine who doesn't have to look very hard to find a tool for taking lives.

And regarding the subject title: yes, I think we're desensitized as a nation. Mass shootings have become like hurricanes, and the fact that we're starting to see it that way (to me) is the scariest part of the whole thing.

 

 

AGREE. The 'fix' won't be quick, easy or cheap. Most don't have the attention span.

 

I also don't disagree that the internet/social media have something to contribute-that's where they get so much of the attention and 'respect' they crave.

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How society treats men-the macho image-hide feelings

This one is interesting. Not attacking you, MG, but it seems the opposite to me -- that there is a correlation with society pooh-poohing masculinity/"be a man"/don't cry if you can help it ideals and these violent explosions.

 

I am absolutely not saying correlation = causation here, but generally speaking today's young men are kind of sissies compared to 20, 30, 50 years ago,* so when I see these memes decrying "masculine culture" or "It's so hurtful to tell young men to 'be a man!'" I kind of have to laugh. They're already 70% of the way to being little girls. FFS they probably weren't even allowed to play dodgeball 'cause it is "cruel."

 

In other words, I have doubts that messages of "be strong" and "hide your feelings" are serious factors. Hope this doesn't derail the convo, my head was just kind of spinning from the idea that today's young men are tormented because they are too macho and stoic.

 

 

 

 

*I am certainly not pretending to be any sort of masculine ideal -- I was in music and drama in high school and mediocre-to-poor at dodgeball!

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I was going to put this in the FB thread but it makes me laugh and might be better in this thread.

 

I get the FB meme of that guy who went after the shooter at UCC that says ran towards the gunman and still no invitation to the White House.

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It's a complex situation that probably won't be fixed by simple legislation.

 

I own pistols, assault rifles, etc. and I'll be the first to say this shit is just not worth it. At all.

 

I'll say the same thing in a few months when it happens again.

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He said that a high-profile mass-shooting (Charleston church) was his "tipping point," and expressed admiration for the Virginia Tech and Columbine shooters.

 

He also posted all that **** on social media and faxed the news a long-ass letter... yet he wasn't looking for attention?!? He was "simply violent?"

 

:confused:

Announcing why you're killing is not automatically a case of trying to write yourself into history. There is a critical difference there. VF's work pattern, BS grievance history was the true beginning and end of it all. For anyone who read that limp manifesto they came away with the beginning and end of his universe was, his self-generated "pain." Citing the Dylann Roof SC shooting was the convenient insertion of himself into an unrelated crime to support his own storybook of racist mistreatment. Even if SC did not happen at all, he already had his so-called reasons for revenge in place.

 

He was creature of imagined, rejected entitlement by equally imagined abusers.

 

Another example: James Huberty (the 1984 McDonald's mass shooting) created his hostile, survivalist nightmare of absolute bullsh*t (WWIII was a-comin', among other "threats"), and focused only on that as the motive, but any thoughts on public and/or media and/or cultural attention was not a part of his drive, contrary to the smoke and mirrors, diversionary statements fools (such as Bill O'Reilly) sell to his followers.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

 

How society treats men-the macho image-hide feelings

This one is interesting. Not attacking you, MG, but it seems the opposite to me -- that there is a correlation with society pooh-poohing masculinity/"be a man"/don't cry if you can help it ideals and these violent explosions.

 

I am absolutely not saying correlation = causation here, but generally speaking today's young men are kind of sissies compared to 20, 30, 50 years ago,* so when I see these memes decrying "masculine culture" or "It's so hurtful to tell young men to 'be a man!'" I kind of have to laugh. They're already 70% of the way to being little girls. FFS they probably weren't even allowed to play dodgeball 'cause it is "cruel."

 

In other words, I have doubts that messages of "be strong" and "hide your feelings" are serious factors. Hope this doesn't derail the convo, my head was just kind of spinning from the idea that today's young men are tormented because they are too macho and stoic.

 

 

 

 

*I am certainly not pretending to be any sort of masculine ideal -- I was in music and drama in high school and mediocre-to-poor at dodgeball!

 

Not to mention, this shooter did NOT hide his feelings online. Quite the opposite, in fact. He seemed to whine a lot about non-issues and he was very clear about how he felt and why he wanted to kill people. Those feelings and opinions may have been twisted, but he definitely did not have any problem sharing them, and expressing his craving attention. Does that sound like a man being a man, or a whiny, self-absorbed, immature man-child? To me, its the latter. So in this case, as with most cases like this, I don't think it is a problem of society telling men to be men, and bottle their emotions.

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It's a complex situation that probably won't be fixed by simple legislation.

 

I own pistols, assault rifles, etc. and I'll be the first to say this **** is just not worth it. At all.

 

I'll say the same thing in a few months when it happens again.

I resemble that statement, too. Some I own for personal protection, or at least that was what I told myself when I bought my handguns, because at the time, I worked armed security a long time ago. I bought a couple rifles and a shotgun partly as a hobby, partly as a sporting thing, and maybe partly as a way to keep in touch with the fact I used to be in the military and had a similar rifle. When I was in, I was a qualified expert marksman, so this was sort of like taking to the range and saying "Cool, I've still got it," and I could go about patting myself on the back. And I used to justify owning these guns to myself and others by saying I've had professional training and have been around guns and had a healthy respect for them since I was a child, but I sometimes wonder is that enough reason?

 

But these days, these weapons stay locked up, and with the price of ammo and just having a much busier schedule, I can't even remember the last time I went to a range. Maybe 3-4 years ago? They do nothing for me. So I sometimes question whether I even need these guns at all? In fact, I have considered selling them, except for my revolver and shotgun for personal home defense, but now I am afraid to do that because I would feel horrible if anything I sold fell into the wrong hands. So, they all just stay locked up.

 

If there were a way to guarantee it (there isn't to be sure, this is all hypothetical), I would gladly give up my guns if it meant that we could live in a safer society. But that isn't going to ever happen, and to further contradict myself, I work in higher education as a support staff member, and whenever I see a shooting at a college or university especially, I then have a brief, fleeting moment where I wish I could carry a concealed .380 on campus. And to contradict myself again, I think schools SHOULD be gun free zones.

 

SO basically, I guess I think gun laws should be for everyone else. Which is what every other gun owner probably also thinks! Therein lies the problem. :eek:

Mm I totally get the right to bare arms and all that. Surely the right not to get shot takes precedence.

I totally understand where you are coming from there. Honestly I think this is a uniquely American issue. I don't see other countries with the mindset about guns the US has. Not even Canadians, who are culturally very similar to the US in many ways. For some Americans, the 2nd Amendment has become a dogma and such an emotionally charged issue, you cannot present any kind of argument at all that will cause them to even consider maybe there should be some gun safety laws that could be proposed, let alone actually agreeing to them.

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He said that a high-profile mass-shooting (Charleston church) was his "tipping point," and expressed admiration for the Virginia Tech and Columbine shooters.

 

He also posted all that **** on social media and faxed the news a long-ass letter... yet he wasn't looking for attention?!? He was "simply violent?"

 

:confused:

Announcing why you're killing is not automatically a case of trying to write yourself into history. There is a critical difference there. VF's work pattern, BS grievance history was the true beginning and end of it all. For anyone who read that limp manifesto they came away with the beginning and end of his universe was, his self-generated "pain." Citing the Dylann Roof SC shooting was the convenient insertion of himself into an unrelated crime to support his own storybook of racist mistreatment. Even if SC did not happen at all, he already had his so-called reasons for revenge in place.

 

He was creature of imagined, rejected entitlement by equally imagined abusers.

 

Another example: James Huberty (the 1984 McDonald's mass shooting) created his hostile, survivalist nightmare of absolute bullsh*t (WWIII was a-comin', among other "threats"), and focused only on that as the motive, but any thoughts on public and/or media and/or cultural attention was not a part of his drive, contrary to the smoke and mirrors, diversionary statements fools (such as Bill O'Reilly) sell to his followers.

The guy bragged about how he was going to be in the news before the murders, sent out a manifesto, and ****ing live tweeted the murders and aftermath. If you want to argue about how his motives were different than other shooters, fine, there is a case to be made for that. But if you can't see how he was trying to get attention with his actions, can't help ya.

 

Now, some WWIII survivalist shooting up a place may not fit the pattern (which is fine -- not everything has to), but it's important to note it happened in 1984; the vast majority of shootings that fit the sadloser narcissist profile we're talking about happened post-1991. For example, the only notoriety the UT Tower shooter wanted was to have his brain examined after death, because he knew he had something seriously wrong going on upstairs -- he was not a troubled and bitter loner, he was married and seemed genuinely confused, ashamed, perhaps even horrified by his own actions.

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How society treats men-the macho image-hide feelings

This one is interesting. Not attacking you, MG, but it seems the opposite to me -- that there is a correlation with society pooh-poohing masculinity/"be a man"/don't cry if you can help it ideals and these violent explosions.

 

I am absolutely not saying correlation = causation here, but generally speaking today's young men are kind of sissies compared to 20, 30, 50 years ago,* so when I see these memes decrying "masculine culture" or "It's so hurtful to tell young men to 'be a man!'" I kind of have to laugh. They're already 70% of the way to being little girls. FFS they probably weren't even allowed to play dodgeball 'cause it is "cruel."

 

In other words, I have doubts that messages of "be strong" and "hide your feelings" are serious factors. Hope this doesn't derail the convo, my head was just kind of spinning from the idea that today's young men are tormented because they are too macho and stoic.

 

 

 

 

*I am certainly not pretending to be any sort of masculine ideal -- I was in music and drama in high school and mediocre-to-poor at dodgeball!

 

Dude. You live in PORTLAND.

Mm I totally get the right to bear arms and all that. Surely the right not to get shot takes precedence.

do we HAVE a Right not to get shot?

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How society treats men-the macho image-hide feelings

This one is interesting. Not attacking you, MG, but it seems the opposite to me -- that there is a correlation with society pooh-poohing masculinity/"be a man"/don't cry if you can help it ideals and these violent explosions.

 

I am absolutely not saying correlation = causation here, but generally speaking today's young men are kind of sissies compared to 20, 30, 50 years ago,* so when I see these memes decrying "masculine culture" or "It's so hurtful to tell young men to 'be a man!'" I kind of have to laugh. They're already 70% of the way to being little girls. FFS they probably weren't even allowed to play dodgeball 'cause it is "cruel."

 

In other words, I have doubts that messages of "be strong" and "hide your feelings" are serious factors. Hope this doesn't derail the convo, my head was just kind of spinning from the idea that today's young men are tormented because they are too macho and stoic.

 

 

 

 

*I am certainly not pretending to be any sort of masculine ideal -- I was in music and drama in high school and mediocre-to-poor at dodgeball!

 

Not to mention, this shooter did NOT hide his feelings online. Quite the opposite, in fact. He seemed to whine a lot about non-issues and he was very clear about how he felt and why he wanted to kill people. Those feelings and opinions may have been twisted, but he definitely did not have any problem sharing them, and expressing his craving attention. Does that sound like a man being a man, or a whiny, self-absorbed, immature man-child? To me, its the latter. So in this case, as with most cases like this, I don't think it is a problem of society telling men to be men, and bottle their emotions.

 

I just think it's ONE factor among many. I could be wrong. I'm looking for a male angle-women almost NEVER do these types of shootings.

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Just looking at my FB feed. Pro gun people seem to love to instantly counter any plan that sanctions gun buying more with the mantra of CRIMINALS STILL GET DRUGS, THEY'LL STILL GET GUNS SO THAT WONT WORK!!!

 

So we don't even TRY? It MAY not work so we do nothing? If new, harder sanctions are dropped and Americans with no criminal record can still get guns, why is the right still so against it?

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The same reason the left is against restrictions on abortion. Because they view it as an attack on rights that will never stop if they give any ground.

 

Also, I agree with Pong that you are way more likely in 2015 to get shit as a man for not being sensitive and feminine enough, more than for not being masculine enough. The only possible exception is the assumption that men love sports. But otherwise we are swinging way far away from the 1960s view of masculinity, toward the idea that men have to be women. Repressing masculinity isn't going to be good for society, and demonizing it is going to be even worse.

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All of my hometown Facebook friends are just beyond the deep end. They've long past moved beyond rallying behind Second Amendment epitaths, they're now actively trying to convince everyone on how the same "actors" appear at every mass shooting incident.

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