D-Ray Kenobi Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 I never realized how much I wanted a bitchy staredown between the two of them until just now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Just his aunt, I think. More interestingly, if he's legitimate (a whole 'nother question), his claim is better than hers. I'm willing to bet that she won't be pleased with that. I'm also of the mind that R+L=J doesn't matter as far as the Westerosi politics go. It matters under the context that Jon is the Song of Ice and Fire and AA reborn and all that. But as far as what it means for the line of succession and who should sit on the throne, I don't think it matters at all.Jon wouldn't want it anyways. My bet is that he'll see Dany and her entourage as a far better candidate for the crown than the Lannisters, and he'll continue to oversee and guard the North while she takes King's Landing and preps for the White Walkers. I'm thinking the end game for everything is starting to sort itself out. Season 7 is about Dany taking Westeros from Cersei and then Season 8 being the final conflict of Jon and company facing off against the Night's King. Cersei doesn't control anything, there is nothing to really take from her. There are 8 political subdivisions in Westeros and 5 of those 8 are in rebellion against her. The other 3 her holds on them are tenuous at best. I mean she is "The Queen" but if she tomorrow decided to raise taxes, who is gonna pay them? Almost no one. Dany already has 3 "Kingdoms" who have declared her Queen. At this point the Iron Throne is just a fancy place to stick her ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odine Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 That was a great bloody episode! Great season all round. My girlfriend calls a Jon Snow/Dany marriage either next season or the one after. Though maybe thats too predictable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poe Dameron Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Cersei doesn't control anything, there is nothing to really take from her. There are 8 political subdivisions in Westeros and 5 of those 8 are in rebellion against her. The other 3 her holds on them are tenuous at best. I mean she is "The Queen" but if she tomorrow decided to raise taxes, who is gonna pay them? Almost no one. Dany already has 3 "Kingdoms" who have declared her Queen. At this point the Iron Throne is just a fancy place to stick her ass. All true. Dany's by far the greatest power left on the show. Outside of the White Walkers, there are only a few things that can possibly trip her up. The rebuilt Iron Fleet in theory, but Dany's dragons could easily destroy any naval adversary all by themselves. And once they get to land, it's really not even a close contest. Though the North might be able to hold her off if they choose and Littlefinger is no doubt counting on the Vale being a fortress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted June 27, 2016 Author Share Posted June 27, 2016 One of my favorite bits about the finale on rewatch - Arya as the serving girl keeps calling Walder Frey "my lord" instead of "m'lord," betraying her nobility - as Tywin and she discussed back in season 2. A brilliant detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryn Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Cersei Lannister, not Baratheon. I love how much Littlefinger misunderstood the North: "... or a bastard born in the south." I love how Sansa truly enjoyed the rally around Jon, but her glance at Littkefinger betrays her concern. She needs to deal with him as soon as possible, especially since he revealed his plans and intentions to her so nakedly. Game on, Sansa! Own this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poe Dameron Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 I love how Sansa truly enjoyed the rally around Jon, but her glance at Littkefinger betrays her concern HBO seems to be trying to get people to think that Sansa feels a bit put upon and that she and Jon will be at odds next season. Like Ryn, though, I didn't see that at all. I think HBO is just trying to misdirect. Heck, even in the above their big conversation basically starts with the two of them trying to get the other one to claim Winterfell. Personally, I see Sansa looking at Jon as naive and in need of someone to watch his back, particularly Littlefinger. This is a guy who was trusting enough to let him get stabbed to death by a bunch of guys who pretty clearly had it out for him. That look towards the end spoke more weariness than jealousy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishdancer2 Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 My worry is that, after everything she has been through, what Sansa wants is stability and safety. She wants to feel like she's in control and, whether she knows that about herself or not, that will ultimately translate into her wanting/needing to have power. I see her trying to play Littlefinger to her advantage and failing miserably. I would also point out that even after Jon's speech about them needing to be honest with each other, she didn't feel the need the share Littlefinger's plans with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDog Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 So does nobody think that the reality of AN INVASION OF ICE ZOMBIES will change or delay Littlefinger's aspirations at all? People keep glossing over this. It's something he never knew about, or believed but it's about to be a reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevil Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Littlefinger would side with the Ice Zombies if it brought him closer to the throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDog Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 I'd love to see THAT negotiation. LMFAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poe Dameron Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 So does nobody think that the reality of AN INVASION OF ICE ZOMBIES will change or delay Littlefinger's aspirations at all? People keep glossing over this. It's something he never knew about, or believed but it's about to be a reality.I'm not sure that they AREN'T the plan. It could well be that Petyr's always known about the White Walker invasion coming, including taking heart from the prophesies explaining how they will be defeated, and has been meticulously planning for how to best take advantage of it all this time. The key to Littlefinger's plan to take the Iron Throne has been to take possession of a self-sustaining, highly defensible position that is the Vale. Ask yourself how exactly that gets him closer to the Iron Throne? Really, it doesn't in and of itself. In fact, he was closer to the throne back when he was Master of Coins. But consider that facing the White Walkers is going to deplete everyone else's forces and cause the death of some of the few remaining applicants to the Iron Throne. As the world rushes to meet the threat, Petyr retreats and lets everyone else expend themselves. Remnants of crushed armies take refuge in his stronghold, swelling his ranks. Then, when the dust settles and the battered armies are just trying to catch their breaths, Littlefinger emerges from the Vale and begins gobbling up the utterly spent forces with little resistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted June 28, 2016 Author Share Posted June 28, 2016 Jeez you guys give Littlefinger entirely too much credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDog Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 I dunno I think that theory has some merit. And Littlefinger has earned a lot of credit considering so much of the show was created and perpetuated by his scheming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Krawlie Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 I think it's possible. I just don't know that Littlefinger even truly believes in the white walker threat. They're just a campfire spooky story to most of the people in Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevil Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Baelish is a lot more closer to the Iron Throne as Lord of the Vale than he was as Master of Coin. As Coin he was a Lord in title only. As Lord of the Vale he has a legitimate title, vast lands and an army. Not to mention his almost impregnable castle. Lord of The Vale is almost as prestigious as Warden of the North. He has many other lesser lords who owe him fealty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerina Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 He's not Lord of the Vale though. Robin is. Littlefinger is only in charge up there until the boy comes of age. So he knows his days are numbered, and I'll bet he has a plan for that. That said, I don't think Littlefinger is going to play much of a role at the end. I think he's going to wind up dying for or because of Sansa. But he'll probably make a bid at trying to marry Dany first. Do you guys think the next season is going to be the fight for the Iron Throne and season 8 is going to be the fight against the White Walkers? Or vice versa? Or 2 bids for the throne with a fight with the walkers (and presumably a lot of deaths) sandwiched between? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted June 28, 2016 Author Share Posted June 28, 2016 Petyr: Chaos is a LADDAH.Sansa: Hey Bronze Yohn Royce, Petyr conspired to poison Jon Arryn and then pushed Lysa through the Moon Door. I didn't say anything earlier because I feared for my life.Petyr: *dies* As Cersei told Littlefinger back in season 1: Power is power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted June 28, 2016 Author Share Posted June 28, 2016 Do you guys think the next season is going to be the fight for the Iron Throne and season 8 is going to be the fight against the White Walkers? Or vice versa? Or 2 bids for the throne with a fight with the walkers (and presumably a lot of deaths) sandwiched between?There is no fight for the Iron Throne. The Iron Throne is irrelevant. There will be Dany getting to Westeros, stuff in King's Landing sorting itself out rather quickly, and then Dany going North. There'll be some Euron-related complications I'm sure (dragon-binding horn? Kraken?), but I really think the majority of our focus is going to be on the Others. IF the series ends with someone on a/the throne it'll be because, like Stannis said he should have done, they saved the realm to win the throne - not the other way around. That's my thought anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poe Dameron Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Baelish is a lot more closer to the Iron Throne as Lord of the Vale than he was as Master of Coin. He's certainly a lot higher as far as social climbing. But being the Master of Coin allowed him much freer a hand in directing things the way he wanted them to go. It kept him closer to the center of power. It provided him with greater opportunities for advancement and building ties through ingratiation and blackmail with people in power. Holding the Vale, he may have a prestigious title, but he's somewhat removed from the game itself. But we know that Petyr had his eyes on the Vale for a long time and could barely contain his glee at gaining it. It's more than land and titles, there's something specific about that place that fits into his plans. As far as I know, the Vale doesn't have much in the way riches from natural resources. But, from the beginning, it's been continually remarked upon as a natural fortress. From Tyrion's remarks about it being impregnable (Bronn disagreed in his charming way) all the way back in Season One to describing the the Bloody Gate. It stands to reason that this is the very quality that attracted Baelish to it. Which means it stands to reason that his plan for winning the crown involves some form of turtling during a period of chaos. Jeez you guys give Littlefinger entirely too much credit. Not really. All it would take is Littlefinger being aware. After that it follows that he would both seek means for preserving himself while simultaneously finding a way to use the chaos to his advantage. And given that, outside of Varys, he's the best informed person in the kingdom, it's certainly not beyond comprehension that he has been aware of the dangers from beyond the wall for some time. That he doesn't simply put it all off to superstition. My plan is not particularly clever. As soon as I realized the White Walkers were coming, I immediately started wondering what the best choke points were for stopping them. If I could figure out that the Vale is just about the safest place in Westeros against an invading horde (in theory, perhaps not in practice given what we saw at Hardhome), I'm sure Petyr would realize the same. If nothing else, he's certainly fully aware of the danger now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoLA Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Looks like we're gearing up for the end next year! http://io9.gizmodo.com/game-of-thrones-showrunners-confirm-there-are-only-15-e-1782731578 The rumors have swirled for a while now. Various people who have worked on the show have dropped hints. But now David Benioff and D.B. Weiss, Game of Thrones showrunners, have officially, irrevocably confirmed that we only have 15 episodes of the show left... at most. Probably less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 If Littlefinger's goal is to sit the Throne with Sansa as his wife and his plan to get there is to hold up in the Vale while the Walkers attack he is doing a very poor job of executing that plan. Not too long ago he was hold up in the Vale with Sansa. Since then he had Sansa marry someone else, which doesn't seem like the smartest way to make sure she is eventually your wife. He also has left the Vale, which would seemingly put his plan at risk because the Walkers probably aren't attacking on Littlefinger's schedule so every moment they are away from the Vale is a moment they are at risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Overall the show hasn't done a great job with Littlefinger and Varys. I mean look at Varys, in season one he has an absolute goal he wants to attain and a plan to make it happen. We know this from his conversation with Illyrio. Now we don't know the plan but they have one for sure. Now years later he is supporting Dany. However there is seemingly no way that his plan in season 1 was for Dany to sit the Throne. I say this because Varys was the one behind sending multiple assassins to kill Dany. Now there are 2 possibilties. The first and I think most likely is that the showrunners didn't know what they were exactly going to do with Varys years down the line. And when they hacked up the book and seemingly wrote out Aegon they ended up with no real plan for Varys' motivations. They figured no one is really going to care about one converstion he had with lllyrio in season 1. That is probably what is going on. The 2nd possibility is that Varys has one more trick up his sleeve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDog Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Or he never intended the assassins to succeed so warned Jorah. The attempts did piss her and the Khal off which would seem to fit Varys' plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Fairly risky I would say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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