Jump to content

Ren-Vader dynamic potential major spoilers/theories


The Choc
 Share

Recommended Posts

Guest El Chalupacabra

I can't remember which thread I posted it at the moment, but basically (and this is COMPLETE SPECULATION on my part), I think Kylo Ren is Luke's son gone bad after Luke's wife dies, and Rey is Han and Leia's son. Luke goes hermit after his wife dies, and refuses to train jedi, including his son. The fact that Vader is Luke 's and Leia's father is hidden from both of their kids, but when Ren starts digging, he finds out Vader is his grandfather, which causes his obsession with him, and also leaves him vulnerable to Snoke to come in and tempt Ren to turn to the dark side, and become his apprentice. Rey is then forced into hiding.

 

 

The thing I wonder is if Rey even has force abilities, or if she takes after Han Solo. Fin is the one we see with a lightsaber, not Rey.

 

 

Yeah, I do love the family story/continuation.. But part of me is like- if another Skywalker turns darkside they're pretty much the weakest willed good guys in the gallaxy. I'd certainly be thinking twice before getting into any alliance with a Skywalker male in the future.

Well, actually, it's implied that Anakin was created by force conception, and later implied that Palpatine's master, Plageus, was behind creating Anakin. Anakin ends up spending exactly half his life as good and half as evil. And that is not counting EU. You could argue that Skywalkers were supposed to be evil.

 

If Ren is a skywalker, it would make sense to me he would turn to a sith, if he wanted to be a jedi, but luke refused to train him. Especially if he found out Vader, one of the most powerful force users ever, was his grandfather, and if he sees luke as a failure (both to prevent his wife from dying, and withdrawing from the galaxy).

 

 

What if Kylo Ren is just a Vader fanboy? No relation - not a Solo or Skywalker - just an admirer seeking to emulate him?

 

Maybe all Kylo (not Ren, because if that is the name of the order he joined, then it'd be like calling Luke "Jedi" all the time) knows is that Vader was the kickass right-hand of the Emperor, both of whom were killed by some punk farmboy from some nowhere dustball. Maybe the events aren't even that clear! Perhaps it's just known that Vader was killed at the Battle of Endor and Kylo knows nothing else.

 

In universe, I am skeptical that the general populace of the galaxy far,far away is going to learn the precise details of what went down in the Emperor's throne room on the Death Star. Events are rarely conveyed so perfectly as news spreads. Decades after the fact, I doubt the story is well known. It's probably been twisted by propaganda and inflated with time like a tall tale. Maybe it's muddled in the memories of everyone ("Ewoks broke into the bunker and stoned Vader to death!"). Just think - who knows exactly what transpired in Hitler's bunker just before his death? Historians do for the most part, but ask the general populace today, and they'll have no clue. You might even run into someone who thinks Hitler didn't die there at all, just disappeared into Argentina. Maybe Kylo hopes that Vader is alive somewhere in the galaxy! Maybe half the population thinks Kylo is Vader!

 

From a story-telling perspective, there must be a character or characters who do not know what happened at Endor, just so that they can be told what happened briefly, and then learn what happened in the decades since (in broad sweeps) for the audience's sake. How much exposition will be stuffed into TFA? How well will it be done?

 

I think both the First Order want to ignore the fact Vader ultimately betrayed the Emperor, and the Resistance want to ignore the fact Luke and Leia were his offspring. Inconvenient for both sides, which is why I think Luke and Leia hide that fact.

 

As for Kylo Ren not being a Skywalker, I think that is totally possible and plausible, too. But I am guessing he is one, along with Rey, because of the fact that at least as far as the movies are concerned, up until now, they have followed the Skywalker family, so why stop now? Why even bother to bring the original cast back, for that matter?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest El Chalupacabra

I like that speculation, but I'd prefer for Rey to be Luke's kid and Kylo to be Leia's. Leia takes more after Anakin, after all.

Really? I think Leia takes after Padme, and Luke takes after Anakin.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As to the question, "if Rey, Finn, and/or Ren aren't Skywalkers or Solos, why bring the original leads back?", the answer is to pass the torch. The prequels had Kenobi, Anakin and Yoda to connect to the original trilogy, as well as C-3PO and R2-D2. We apparently need Han, Leia and Luke to pass the responsibility of saving the galaxy to younger folk, or at least to people who are less likely to break a hip.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Based off Adam Driver's GQ appearance a several months back, there's a pretty solid resemblance to Ford. He's lankier but looks a lot like him.

Really? I haven't seen that. To be fair I have only seen a few photos of him so haven't really scrutinised the likeness, and it was just my impression that they were totally different looking. But I'll have a look see

 

EDIT: naw.. I had a look at the GQ cover shoot and have to disagree. The only similarity is that he's wearing a low cut/open shirt in the style of Han Solo so it's kind of channelling a likeness but face wise... I think they're worlds apart

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's my latest theory...

 

After seeing what his fathers fall did to the Galaxy Luke decides to not take Yoda's advice and he teaches no one, not even Leia, to be a Jedi.

 

In fact, he's so worried that he could repeat Obi-wan's failure he decides to up and go hide. Leia and Han know where he is, and are in touch, but Luke wants to stay out of politics and the war.

 

So the ways of the Jedi and Sith are now both secret. But that does not mean the force is not still an active thing, or that people attuned to the force do not continue to be born.

 

The Knights of Ren are one such group, maybe as old as the Jedi or maybe long gone, that begin to tap into the dark side. Snoke is their leader and he rounds up all the surviving Imperials in hiding to form the first order.

 

I don't know if Kylo is a Skywalker or Solo or neither, but he is somebody who has force potential. Luke won't teach him, so he seeks out Snoke. In the process he idolized Vader and goes darker.

 

As the dark side grows, there is an "awakening" in Finn (and maybe Rey) to counterbalance it. Snoke senses this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hermit Luke seems plausible, and would mimic the old Ben hermit-wizard from the original film.

Though if Luke is walking away from his Jedi responsibilities out of fear of failure, it seems odd to have him dressed as a Jedi Master sporting particularly bright robes.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's my latest theory...

 

After seeing what his fathers fall did to the Galaxy Luke decides to not take Yoda's advice and he teaches no one, not even Leia, to be a Jedi.

 

In fact, he's so worried that he could repeat Obi-wan's failure he decides to up and go hide. Leia and Han know where he is, and are in touch, but Luke wants to stay out of politics and the war.

 

So the ways of the Jedi and Sith are now both secret. But that does not mean the force is not still an active thing, or that people attuned to the force do not continue to be born.

 

The Knights of Ren are one such group, maybe as old as the Jedi or maybe long gone, that begin to tap into the dark side. Snoke is their leader and he rounds up all the surviving Imperials in hiding to form the first order.

 

I don't know if Kylo is a Skywalker or Solo or neither, but he is somebody who has force potential. Luke won't teach him, so he seeks out Snoke. In the process he idolized Vader and goes darker.

 

As the dark side grows, there is an "awakening" in Finn (and maybe Rey) to counterbalance it. Snoke senses this.

 

 

My theory is this

 

Luke does begin to train new Jedi, at least one and that is his nephew Kylo Ren. But he teaches in a somewhat passive way, he doesn't want to be like official government arm like the Jedi were prior.

 

The man eventually named Kylo Ren though goes beyond Lukes teachings, wants power and all that. His turn to the dark side (possibly shown somewhat in flashback) is more like we all thought Anakin's would be. It's a thirst for power, for powers sake.

 

Eventually Snoke seeks him out and offers him the ability to have this power or the oppurtunity to gain it. Ren obviously accepts, however Ren isn't enough Snoke also wants Ren's sister, who is younger and as yet unnamed but NOT Rey.

 

Luke, realizing that Snoke and Ren will never leave him and his niece alone goes off into hiding with his niece, to teach her The Force away from any possible temptations.

 

This is why Ren and Snoke want to find Luke so badly, they know they can't turn Luke to the dark side, but they want to prevent him from completing Ren's sisters training.

 

This is where TFA picks up, Rey is NOT related to the Skywalkers or Solo's. Her and Finn both just stumble into these events but they both are Force sensitive.

 

The duel at the end of the movie is Ren vs Finn, Ren wins and is nearly able to kill him but Rey shows up. Finn throws her the saber and she is able to temporarily save Finn but she is also completely outmatched. Han shows up at the last minute as a distraction and Ren killing him is what allows Finn and Rey to escape.

 

The end of the movie is Rey (and possibly Finn) finding where Luke is hiding and returning the Saber to him.

 

In Episode VIII we are introduced to Han and Leias daughter who has been in hiding with Luke. That sets up Luke, his niece, Rey and Finn to match up with the Knights of Ren who will have more members possibly revealed in Episode VIII as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the question is who the hell is Snoke? I don't think he was connected to the Empire at all, as they seemed to frown upon aliens (keeping with the Nazi parallel), and if he was a force user during the OT his presence would've been felt (I guess). Either way I think the Ren-Vader connection is through him. Maybe he's an ex Jedi who survived the PT purge and managed to stay hidden all of these years. I feel pretty sure it's Snoke who recovers Vader's crispy mask.

 

I also wonder what Ren's motivation is. I really hope it's not that he's related to the old cast because that just bores me. I'm sure Snoke brings him in, shows him the Vader mask and all that, but as for what makes Ren tick? We'll have to wait and see. Love the mystery about his character.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I remember that! I bet it's Max von Sydow's character.

 

No reason to mention the PT now in these stories. The rebellion (or was it a civil war?) will be to the sequel trilogy what the Clone War was to the original trilogy.

He HAS to be the big bad right? I mean who else could he be?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought he was the salvage/junk... broker? that Rey works for/with. I can't remember.

 

You would have to really sell me on loop going into hermit mode and not training Jedi, or continuing that tradition somehow. Without a really good reason anyway. That would totally keeping the "I am a Jedi, like my father before me" line. I know that line would still make perfect sense in the context in which it is said, but to me, if he doesn't continue that tradition at all that would be a total departure from becoming a Jedi like his father before him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.