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Some theories I have on Kylo Ren.


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SPOILER ALERT!!!!..........STAY AWAY IF YOU DO NOT QANT TO KNOW.

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Some slightly new details came about today on yahoo based on the new entertainment weekly issue.

 

1. Kylo Ren was a name given to him or he gave himself by joining a group called the knights of Ren.

 

2. He is not a complete character like we saw in Vader. He is obsessed with Vader.

 

This leads me to believe we are dealing with a cult follower and or leader of a cult that wants to collect sith relics. My theory is that Kylo Ren has been possessed by the spirit of a dark lord (Snoke) or Snoke and Ren think they can have a rebirth of the sith order by giving this spirit a vessel such as a young man like Kylo Ren.

 

So we might have a cliche villain here because how many movie villans have we had in movie history wishing to become something greater and more powerful.

 

My last theory is what will Kylo Ren sound like? Will they use Adam Drivers voice? Filter it, or how about letting Mark Hamil voice the character when the mask is on. Since Hamil does not have much screen time this could be a unique opportunity.

 

Anyway these are just a few of my thoughts.

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SPOILERS OBVIOUSLY

 

 

 

There were spy pics of Driver in an X-Wing pilot uniform. I feel like he was a member of the Alliance/Resistance that changes allegiances. The reverse of what Finn seems to do. I don't want to guess at the details, but the mythos is full of people who are tempted by dark side by power.

 

I have another theory that everything we wanted to see in the prequel, but felt cheated on, is going to paid service her. Driver's character becoming Kylo Ren is going to be what we wanted to see with Anakin-- a gifted pilot who wanted to do good, but is tempted by power and becomes corrupted, much to the dismay of somebody who loves him... (I suspect he is Leia/Han's kid, NOT Kira). How much of this change we'll see, and how soon Kylo Ren in full appears on screen is anybody's guess. But it seems like we've seen nothing of Driver not as Ren in trailers or promo material, and every shot we do see of him is in the snowy environment, which we know isn't in the first third of the film.

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*************************SPOILERS*************************

 

 

 

 

 

There was this one Sith Lord named Darth Revan, another named Darth Caedus (aka Jacen Solo), and a Jedi named Plo Koon. One day, somebody thought it'd be a good idea to just take these three characters, combine them into one, and then hope nobody noticed.

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Star Wars may seem big and epic, but its roots and it's motifs are a very simple list. You can say Kylo is a rip off of Revaan, but it's all coming from the same source material. Of course it's going to be similar.

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Every franchise has its archetypes. A vintage James Bond villain is going to be an egomaniac that wants to rule/end the world. A Star Trek villain is a xenophobic leader that thinks he is infallible.

 

A Star Wars villain is going to wear black, have a red light saber, be consumed and driven by power and have something weird going on with his face.

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Star Wars may seem big and epic, but its roots and it's motifs are a very simple list. You can say Kylo is a rip off of Revaan, but it's all coming from the same source material. Of course it's going to be similar.

. QFT. I'd also add, even if they merged Revan and Jacen Solo to create the character for Kylo Ren... WHO CARES!? He looks sweet, and the stories of Revan and Jacen Solo are cool. We're better off putting them to film.
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That's a unique point of view. I call it lack of originality, but what ever. If you enjoy it, that's all that matters.

All things created equal I would agree. But the visual design of KOTOR could have literally been anything. Video games don't have production design budgets that limit what they can do visually, anything is possible. The story was thousands of years from the movies so it could have looked like anything. But they specifically chose to retain a familiar look and feel that was unquestionably Star Wars. The Republic troops looked nearly identical to clone troopers. Like I said above, bad guys in Star Wars follow a pattern, so Revaan was no more or less original than anything else.

 

Pretty much everything in KOTOR is a rip off of something from the movies if you want to get picky. Star Wars deals in archetypes and repeated patterns.

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That's a unique point of view. I call it lack of originality, but what ever. If you enjoy it, that's all that matters.

All things created equal I would agree. But the visual design of KOTOR could have literally been anything. Video games don't have production design budgets that limit what they can do visually, anything is possible. The story was thousands of years from the movies so it could have looked like anything. But they specifically chose to retain a familiar look and feel that was unquestionably Star Wars. The Republic troops looked nearly identical to clone troopers. Like I said above, bad guys in Star Wars follow a pattern, so Revaan was no more or less original than anything else.

 

Pretty much everything in KOTOR is a rip off of something from the movies if you want to get picky. Star Wars deals in archetypes and repeated patterns.

 

You've got a point there. The Tales of the Jedi comics painted a more archaic galaxy, and then KOTOR came along and undid it by making everything look nearly the same as it does in the movies. The look of things in the comics has since been retconned to have been a style that was in vogue at a time when the Republic experienced a golden age.

 

Indeed, this modernity has since been pushed further and further back in time, to the point where Dawn of the Jedi--set 25,000 years in the past--has people wearing outfits that very much resemble those of the Imperial officers from the films.

 

This is one movement within the Expanded Universe that I have never cared for. They were on the right track initially but then sold out over time as far as aesthetics are concerned.

 

The new canon, on the other hand, is regurgitating the same old stuff right from the start it seems.

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That's what I really like about the designs released so far for the TFA. Everything looks like Star Wars, but is still new. Most of the new comic art set during the OT has handled this pretty well. The one exception, to me, was Cassaday's art on the core SW title. Every single design, whether character or vehicle, seemed awfully uninspired to me to the point that it distracted me from the story. I'm glad he's off the book now.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

 

That's a unique point of view. I call it lack of originality, but what ever. If you enjoy it, that's all that matters.

All things created equal I would agree. But the visual design of KOTOR could have literally been anything. Video games don't have production design budgets that limit what they can do visually, anything is possible. The story was thousands of years from the movies so it could have looked like anything. But they specifically chose to retain a familiar look and feel that was unquestionably Star Wars. The Republic troops looked nearly identical to clone troopers. Like I said above, bad guys in Star Wars follow a pattern, so Revaan was no more or less original than anything else.

 

Pretty much everything in KOTOR is a rip off of something from the movies if you want to get picky. Star Wars deals in archetypes and repeated patterns.

 

I disagree on a few points there, but you do make valid ones.

 

First, KOTOR (the first two games anyway...the TOR MMORPG is a direct carbon copy of the movies) visually to me fits right in the Star Wars universe, but does look different. The vehicles look like more primitive versions of what we seen in the movies (IE Ebon Hawk VS Millennium Falcon). This was actually a good way to go (possibly reaction to TPM vehicles looking too advanced compared to the OT. The garb, while Star Wars-ish, does look a bit different especially in the first game; IE jedi robes actually match up with the Old Republic comics that precede the game. Basically, I think the game was trying to follow the established look and feel of the Dark Horse comics, so it made sense to me at the time. Now, however, you have a valid point, since so much of what was formerly canon is now "legends."

 

I don't think of KOTOR as a rip off, so much as attempting to be the video game continuation to established Dark Horse comics, which in turn, borrowed ideas that were rumored (at the time) to have been in rough drafts of the PT era (IE Mandalorians fighting Jedi, Sith armies fighting Jedi armies, etc).

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The new canon, on the other hand, is regurgitating the same old stuff right from the start it seems.​

 

You've made this argument a few times, but are still yet to explain how. You're making assumptions that these characters rip off characters we've previously seen in the EU, without any context. The only thing you can say that is similar to the OT at this point is that the Ren's helmet is similar to Darth Ravens - which was clear reference/influence from the Vader helmet in the first place, which in itself is essentially the same lack of originality. Everything else is pure speculation at this point. You can't say it's a combination of Plo Koon, Raven and whoever this other Darth is meant to be until you''ve seen the movie.

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Man, seriously? Okay, where do I begin?

 

Kylo Ren is most definitely a direct ripoff of Revan (and it is Revan, by the way, not Revaan or Raven). While it is true that Revan himself was inspired by Darth Vader--indeed, the entire game was a reimagining of the original Trilogy, especially A New Hope--and people did pick up on this, the design was far enough a departure that it did not feel like a direct ripoff and nobody complained. Ren, on the other hand, is almost a direct pallet swap, and people are saying as much. The woman Daisy Ridley plays (forget the character's name now) is such a dead ringer for Jaina Solo it's uncanny, especially if she does indeed turn out to be Han and Leia's daughter (which it's looking like is the case). And if Kylo Ren is her brother as rumored, who turns to the dark side, tell me that doesn't scream Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus.

 

Now, I know that these things are likely not direct adaptations. Still, the similarities are so strong that they may as well be. Further, I am sure that the writers and producers were well aware of these EU stories. They could have made a concentrated effort to go in an entirely different direction instead of more of the same. If not, they may as well have not decanonized the EU at all and adapted the stories therein (I don't think that is the best course of action; I'm just saying).

 

Other things include the new novels and comics, which seem to purposely tread into familiar (read: nearly identical) territory just to undo beloved stories (compare John Jackson Miller's Kenobi with the new Obi-Wan series premiering soon). One of the most exteme examples includes the shock-value ridden comic art of Han's estranged wife, a character who is a dead ringer for another character who appeared in the Dark Empire comics, who was also an old flame of Han's. Yet, although she looks and behaves exactly like the character in question, she has a different name and is clearly not her. While the majority of the novelists who have written the first books of the new canon (most notably James Luceno) are trying their best to write around the old EU material and not tread on it, Marvel Comics seems to hold animosity toward the old canon for giving their Star Wars license over to Dark Horse, and is trying their best to undo everything that the latter company has established with their stories.

 

Another extreme example is Rogue One. The story of the Death Star plans being stolen? Really? Like we didn't have enough stories about that to chose from already. I was complaining back in 2007 with the release of the video game Lethal Alliance for further (needlessly) adding to that whole story arc. (The official word from Lucas Film concerning these seemingly conflicting stories was that the plans for different portions of the Death Star--the main canon, the ventilation system, the weapons, various levels, etc--were kept in different parts of Imperial space for safe keeping, and that different Rebel agents were sent to retrieve them in order to compile one master blueprint for the Alliance.) Now we have another plans-stealing story, as if it hasn't been covered enough already.

 

So there: take your pick. And this is by no means an exhaustive list.

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I probably should of clarified, I meant more in terms of the new film, not the wider canon, so you're probably right in that regard, I don't have enough exposure there to argue.

 

But in terms of just Force Awakens, again, you can't say Daisy Ridley's character is a Jaina rip off without seeing the movie. Do they look similar? I'm sure maybe they do, but if Daisy is in fact the daughter of Han / Leia, then she probably should look similar. But honestly it's obvious they've cast her because of the similarity to Natalie Portman, Hamill & Fisher more than anything, I doubt they've considered Jaina Solo at all.

 

And Kylo, again you're making an assumption. And if it does turn out to be her brother who has gone to the dark, I'm sure it will be handled very differently (but hey, I'm making an assumption there too I guess).

 

Lastly, with Revan, (sorry), I'm sorry but I still disagree with you there. I don't think you can criticize the new film for referencing and paying homage to old material and say it's a lack of originality when the game did exactly that.

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Man, seriously? Okay, where do I begin?

 

Kylo Ren is most definitely a direct ripoff of Revan (and it is Revan, by the way, not Revaan or Raven). While it is true that Revan himself was inspired by Darth Vader--indeed, the entire game was a reimagining of the original Trilogy, especially A New Hope--and people did pick up on this, the design was far enough a departure that it did not feel like a direct ripoff and nobody complained. Ren, on the other hand, is almost a direct pallet swap, and people are saying as much. The woman Daisy Ridley plays (forget the character's name now) is such a dead ringer for Jaina Solo it's uncanny, especially if she does indeed turn out to be Han and Leia's daughter (which it's looking like is the case). And if Kylo Ren is her brother as rumored, who turns to the dark side, tell me that doesn't scream Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus.

 

Now, I know that these things are likely not direct adaptations. Still, the similarities are so strong that they may as well be. Further, I am sure that the writers and producers were well aware of these EU stories. They could have made a concentrated effort to go in an entirely different direction instead of more of the same. If not, they may as well have not decanonized the EU at all and adapted the stories therein (I don't think that is the best course of action; I'm just saying).

 

Other things include the new novels and comics, which seem to purposely tread into familiar (read: nearly identical) territory just to undo beloved stories (compare John Jackson Miller's Kenobi with the new Obi-Wan series premiering soon). One of the most exteme examples includes the shock-value ridden comic art of Han's estranged wife, a character who is a dead ringer for another character who appeared in the Dark Empire comics, who was also an old flame of Han's. Yet, although she looks and behaves exactly like the character in question, she has a different name and is clearly not her. While the majority of the novelists who have written the first books of the new canon (most notably James Luceno) are trying their best to write around the old EU material and not tread on it, Marvel Comics seems to hold animosity toward the old canon for giving their Star Wars license over to Dark Horse, and is trying their best to undo everything that the latter company has established with their stories.

 

Another extreme example is Rogue One. The story of the Death Star plans being stolen? Really? Like we didn't have enough stories about that to chose from already. I was complaining back in 2007 with the release of the video game Lethal Alliance for further (needlessly) adding to that whole story arc. (The official word from Lucas Film concerning these seemingly conflicting stories was that the plans for different portions of the Death Star--the main canon, the ventilation system, the weapons, various levels, etc--were kept in different parts of Imperial space for safe keeping, and that different Rebel agents were sent to retrieve them in order to compile one master blueprint for the Alliance.) Now we have another plans-stealing story, as if it hasn't been covered enough already.

 

So there: take your pick. And this is by no means an exhaustive list.

I can totally connect the dots that you have placed here and totally understand your point of view. Personally, it doesn't matter that much to me.

 

Do you feel that your fandom of Star Wars has been invalidated by the scrapping of the old canon? Being that you dedicated so much time and interest to it and now it's no longer legit? If so I can understand why you have little interest in the new stuff and/or are angry about the current decisions. Though I can't help but feel you might get new enjoyment out of it all if you shrugged and let it go.

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