Ms. Spam Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 So over morning coffee I read this Op-Ed from the LA Times: http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0714-chemerinsky-scalia-bad-example-20150714-story.html Antonin Scalia is setting a terrible example for young lawyers. Ignore, for now, his jurisprudence, his famously strict originalism; it's his tone that's the problem.I have taught argumentation for many years, first as an instructor to high school and college debaters, currently as a law professor. Throughout my career I have always cautioned students away from nastiness as a crutch for those who cannot win using reason or legal precedent. I have told them to stick to persuasion and to dissecting the opposition's logical fallacies. So bad arguments on the net can be blamed on this Justice too? I realize that some of this cherry picking but lately Scalia has been really nasty in his opinions and law students mimic that style when turning in written opinions for law school. Is it time for him to retire? It seems like he's not really taking his place on the highest court that seriously based on this op-ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavonis Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 At least Scalia is more fun to read lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pong Messiah Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 He is SCOTUS-grade Miley Cyrus and probably a bad influence on everybody. I like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justus Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 The author of that LAT piece....allow me to control high speed eye-rolling...is whining for no good reason, If he bothered to actually read several of Scalia's opinions, there's more to it than alleged "meaness." If one sees his opinions as acerbic--and nothing else--they are missing the point, and I argue that they are personalizing it--either for themselves, or others. Scalia--if one gets beyond tears--uses a style designed to make you pay attention to why he's going in a certain direction. It's not a high-brow version of "it sucks, they suck, and you suck, too." The tough language is just a framing doorway for the real opinion within. In a way, I have a suspicion Chemerinsky might be someone who simply did not want to hear any hard opposition to the court's recent rulings (since he does claim Scalia's opinions this term were "especially nasty"). In other words, if you do not hear it, it does not exist. Regarding students apeing Scalia: i can agree that it is never good to see people consciously shed their own identity--or stop developing their own--in favor of (I guess you could call it) hero worship. I still see that with new writers from time to time, and it is not a good experience to read style--even thought rips from others. In nerd terms, its like having a little crew of Glen Larsons pitching that next "great" sci-fi concept, but you know so much of it was swiped from Star Wars. I can agree that law students should avoid apeing Scalia, but that's not because he's a bad influence. Ripping anyone is part of a larger generational problem, than the imagined threat of a bunch of hard ass lawyers being set loose in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pong Messiah Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Interesting post. This: Ripping anyone is part of a larger generational problem, than the imagined threat of a bunch of hard ass lawyers being set loose in the world.Are you saying people rip off/imitate others now more than in previous generations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odine Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 ^if so that's a total fallacy. Every generation "pinches" "borrows" or "rips off" their predecessors. From writers to artists to musicians et al. And it's not necessarily a bad thing nor does it necessarily mean you ditch your own identity by utilising others techniques. But I guess this is beside the point. I know nothing of this judge guy or law in general just felt I needed to chime in about this "originality" "problem". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justus Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 ^if so that's a total fallacy. Every generation "pinches" "borrows" or "rips off" their predecessors. From writers to artists to musicians et al. And it's not necessarily a bad thing nor does it necessarily mean you ditch your own identity by utilising others techniques. But I guess this is beside the point. I know nothing of this judge guy or law in general just felt I needed to chime in about this "originality" "problem".The studied increase in ripping off / plagiarism disagrees with you. Whether one rips a written piece, or an individual's well-known character, no earlier point in history can claim such widespread and frankly brazen acts on this scale. For example, a globalpost article on college plagiarism found... A May 2010 Rutgers University study of 24,000 high schoolers in 70 schools found 58 percent self-reported having plagiarism on a written assignment. A similar study by the school from 2002 to 2005 showed 36 percent of undergraduates and 24 percent of graduate students said they wrote work that amounted to plagiarism using a Web source. Similarly, 28 percent of undergrads and 25 percent of grad students indicated they had copied content without citation from written works. This is not isolated to education, as one can easily find entertainment rife with swipes and rip-offs. Since the digital age, and the almost sanctioned ability to freely swipe/manipulate intellectual property through various programs, the act has become so common that one no longer sees it as the anomaly, but the standard. That kind of mass rip offs did not exist in earlier periods, or the digital age's "tone" that whatever you find...is yours, be it art, a legal paper, article...anything Getting back to the Scalia matter, apeing his style/tone/thought/whatever is never a good sign, since that likely hero worship tends to convince individuals they will go on to be a version of the man. Again, I suspect Chemerinsky's complaints are more about ideology in reference to Scalia's opinion, but students should find their own identity, and realize the very image and stature they seek will be replaced with disrespect for being a sticky-fingered/minded fanboy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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