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Hero Diner Owner Shouts at Noisy Toddler, Selfish Parents and Weaklings Cry Foul


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Pong doing his schtick and claiming adults aren't inherently annoying is probably the biggest and strongest laugh I've had in a long, long time.

Yes, yes, laugh it up. I know it is much easier to write this off as shtick than to step back, take responsibility, and seriously examine how current fashions in parenting (and perhaps your own) affect others.

 

But the bottom line is: noisy, out of control children are highly offensive to the senses of people who are not their parents, and parents should be more aware and proactive about it. Having kids is a fine choice for many people, but just because you have children and are suffering through raising them doesn't make it OK to annoy others when it can be easily avoided.

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Am I allowed to hate all parties involved? Both crappy parents who don't respect other people's space/life/feeding time as well as business owners who can't find a way to settle things without going b

I believe the standard now is that non-breeders aren't allowed to comment or otherwise have opinions about the behavior of parasites that have escaped the womb. That bars me from making a statement on

What parenting technique justifies allowing a kid to scream for 20-40 minutes in public?

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How do you justify labeling them all as both "noisy" and "out of control"? Moreover, do you really believe that just because a child is being somewhat noisy, that automatically means he's "out of control"?

 

Are adults not similarly noisy in public? Is it just their ages that shoves them into being "highly offensive"?

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How do you justify labeling them all as both "noisy" and "out of control"? Moreover, do you really believe that just because a child is being somewhat noisy, that automatically means he's "out of control"?

If you bothered reading my posts, it's pretty clear I don't consider all children to be awful.

 

I've had many tables with children. Most are OK -- they are a little more work, and definitely messier, but nothing nightmarish. You shouldn't have to give up your entire life just because you are a parent, so hey, good job. People who bring their kids in who are unreasonably clueless/too-cool-to-parent should be sent to Siberia, though. Or at least shouted at and told to get their kids under control.

Not only am I not labeling all kids negatively, I even said most are OK.

 

And furthermore, this is far more about parents and their lack of parenting skills/courtesy than their children, and I have been clear about that since this thread began.

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So what you're really talking about is a small section of the general population. Parents who don't parent.

I don't know how large or small this portion of the general population is, but yes, I think I've been pretty clear that this is a parenting issue, not a "dem kids today are so bad" issue or whatever.

 

Full disclosure: as a general rule I do not like children and want them to go very far away. But I accept that this is my issue, not the child's. And furthermore, it is stupid to blame somebody (of any age) for things they have no control over.

 

So, getting back on the original topic: if a kid is screaming bloody murder in a diner for 45 minutes, it's 100% the fault of the parents, not the child. And whether or not the diner owner was in the wrong for shouting "THIS NEEDS TO STOP!" in the direction of the child is, I believe, a related but separate issue that is being used as distraction and/or cover by overly sensitive and defensive parents.

 

Now we have come full circle.

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Story

 

Synopsis:

 

Terrorist child screeches in small diner for something like 40 minutes. Parents are unwilling or unable to control child. Owner walks up to parents, presents them with a to go box and says they need to quiet the kid or leave. Bad parents ignore ultimatum, and after a few minutes, the hero diner owner snaps and shouts at the kid herself. Like magic, the child shuts up after receiving the first good parenting of its life. Unfortunately, the story doesn't end here: the parents obviously did not learn their lesson, and worse, the sad, weak people of the world have united to call what this heroic woman did "inappropriate."

 

:no:

 

What a ****ed up world we live in.

 

 

 

So what you're really talking about is a small section of the general population. Parents who don't parent.

I don't know how large or small this portion of the general population is, but yes, I think I've been pretty clear that this is a parenting issue, not a "dem kids today are so bad" issue or whatever.

 

Full disclosure: as a general rule I do not like children and want them to go very far away. But I accept that this is my issue, not the child's. And furthermore, it is stupid to blame somebody (of any age) for things they have no control over.

 

So, getting back on the original topic: if a kid is screaming bloody murder in a diner for 45 minutes, it's 100% the fault of the parents, not the child. And whether or not the diner owner was in the wrong for shouting "THIS NEEDS TO STOP!" in the direction of the child is, I believe, a related but separate issue that is being used as distraction and/or cover by overly sensitive and defensive parents.

 

Now we have come full circle.

 

Actually, I think we've seen a little growth here.

 

Good session everyone!

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The problem is the parents who take their children everywhere, and then don't immediately remove the shrieking child from the environment. Even Cerina agrees on that. Some people will bring their infants and toddlers anywhere. I saw a child young enough to be in a stroller at Ant-Man the past weekend. Who brings their kid to a movie theater?

 

Parents have to accept the disadvantage of raising children includes the lost opportunities to go to nice restaurants and see films or plays until the child(ren) reach a particular age. You don't bring children out to public until they absolutely can sit still for 2+ hours, know how to control their volume, and don't throw a tantrum when they don't get what they want immediately. Parents don't get to have all the advantages of children (whatever they might be) without any consequent disadvantages. Sorry.

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You don't bring children out to public until they absolutely can sit still for 2+ hours

Whoa now. Most adults I encounter can't handle this. (Or the rest of the list for that matter.) I think the real issue is poorly behaved children become poorly behaved adults.

 

There have been recent discussions elsewhere on the interwebs about how isolating parenting is now, especially for stay-at-home parents. Part of it is attitudes like this, which just strikes me as grumpy old people talking about how in their day, children did not speak until spoken to and they had to walk uphill both ways to school blah blah blah. The other part is that we now live further from families than ever, and modern parents don't have grandma or other family nearby to watch the kids for an hour while you run to the store. Therefore, kids are out and about everywhere because you have no choice but to bring them on errands. The only way my husband and I get to go on a date is to go during lunch while the kids are in daycare. When I was on maternity leave, I didn't even have that option. I finally found a regular babysitter because one of the daycare teachers quit, but I'm still subject to her scheduling whims. She's got a life, too.

 

To me, it's a matter of trying to understand that no one knows what anyone else is going through, and having a little patience and courtesy for others. The grouchy women I encountered this weekend have no idea what our family's challenges are. They also seem to think they deserve special treatment. Don't want to be around kids because you can't stand them, go to a fancier restaurant. Here's a hint, a bakery that happens to have a sit-down area and you have to bus your own table is probably going to have kids at it. We don't take our kids to the wine bar, we don't take them to the movies, even. At the same time, how can children be expected to learn how to conduct themselves in public if they're shut in all the time? That's the sort of thing that makes them think they can bounce off of walls when they go out, because they do it at home because they aren't getting out.

 

For the most part, my kids are pretty good when they go out. Ethan really enjoys people watching, usually from the stroller or the carrier. (He's a little unsteady on his feet still, but in a couple more months, he'll probably be able to navigate on his own a little bit.) He's my running buddy because he just likes to sit back and take it in. Quinn gets excited about going to the grocery store, for crying out loud. A lot of times, when we go to a restaurant, we get out some crayons or our phones for some Netflix for Quinn so that she's not so antsy during the wait. Ethan has proven to be a bit more of a challenge because of his vision issues. He's not as preoccupied by toys as Quinn was, probably because he can't see them that well, or he likes to throw them, because he's more tactile and physical, so we have to have several toys and they have to be able to be attached to the high chair by a bungee. He loves food, though, so we usually bring snacks to keep him occupied while we wait for food, and then when he gets his food, he's pretty happy. We have packed up food when he got too rambunctious, but in the case this weekend, we were still waiting for our food. I prefer not to take the kids out to restaurants, but with all the overtime we've been working lately, sometimes cooking at home just doesn't happen.

 

Some days, you just have a bad day. Don't we all have that? I do see parents who push their kids to go too long or do things that aren't going to be interesting to them. I don't deny that happens. Parents who try to push through naptime so they can "get it done" or want their kid to drop naps too early because it's "inconvenient" drive me nuts. I pretty much avoid going out past 1 PM on weekends because I know the kids are going to be cranky. I don't try to drag my kids to beer festivals or anything like that. We do spend a lot of time at the zoo and parks. Winter is a challenge, though, because the weather is so lousy.

 

I would much rather see parents trying quietly to calm a grouchy or excited child than screaming at them and causing a further scene. Getting nasty and mean with kids is just more likely to make them cry or scream louder, because they don't understand why someone who loves them and is usually so kind would suddenly turn nasty, even if they are acting out. There's a difference between correcting and discipline. I know what works for my kids, and losing my **** with them does not yield results. But also, if you're an a-hole to me or to my child, I'm not going to do you any favors.

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Good post, Destiny, but I'm going to pick at it anyway:

There have been recent discussions elsewhere on the interwebs about how isolating parenting is now, especially for stay-at-home parents. Part of it is attitudes like this, which just strikes me as grumpy old people talking about how in their day, children did not speak until spoken to and they had to walk uphill both ways to school blah blah blah. The other part is that we now live further from families than ever, and modern parents don't have grandma or other family nearby to watch the kids for an hour while you run to the store. Therefore, kids are out and about everywhere because you have no choice but to bring them on errands. The only way my husband and I get to go on a date is to go during lunch while the kids are in daycare. When I was on maternity leave, I didn't even have that option. I finally found a regular babysitter because one of the daycare teachers quit, but I'm still subject to her scheduling whims. She's got a life, too.

I think the feelings of isolation are also tied to the fact that more and more people are choosing not to have kids now, so there is segregation going on between childed and childless, lifestyle wise, and at the same time, a lot more information being shared. It used to be you were a freak if you didn't have at least one kid by 25 so there was a huge support network; if not grandma, you could drop the kids off with your neighbors who had kids of a similar age, and your friends all knew what you were going through and could, at the very least, commiserate. Today, it's pretty normal to wait until after 30 or never.

So we have two classes of people under 40 now. The childless who go out and do fun stuff, usually with alcohol, and the childed, some of whom get sad, indoor-cat faces when they see pictures of "fun" posted on social media by their childless friends.

And within the childed class, we have parents with bad judgment who either don't believe in discipline, or who just can't take not living a "normal" life any more (even though the life they are living is normal), and they insist on dragging their kids into environments they are not ready for or shouldn't be in at all (e.g I have seen little kids in seedy music venues at 2am without ear protection. WTF).

I also think that middle-class parents, generally speaking, are not only working harder but sooooo much more helicoptery nowadays, they get burned out with their kids a lot quicker than they need to. There is no more "Get out of the house and play with your friends and don't come back except for church, lunch, or dinner" on weekends, it's "Time for me/us to take you to your softball tournament at 9am, art class at noon, then community workshop at 3!" And on top of that, parents who do have multiple kids, tend to have them closer together, and are less likely to have older ones who can babysit the younger ones so they can have a free night out.

To me, it's a matter of trying to understand that no one knows what anyone else is going through, and having a little patience and courtesy for others. The grouchy women I encountered this weekend have no idea what our family's challenges are. They also seem to think they deserve special treatment. Don't want to be around kids because you can't stand them, go to a fancier restaurant. Here's a hint, a bakery that happens to have a sit-down area and you have to bus your own table is probably going to have kids at it. We don't take our kids to the wine bar, we don't take them to the movies, even. At the same time, how can children be expected to learn how to conduct themselves in public if they're shut in all the time? That's the sort of thing that makes them think they can bounce off of walls when they go out, because they do it at home because they aren't getting out.

Good points here, but the problem with this is that nobody is arguing that you should start getting mad at parents for not shushing their kids before they even make a peep.

It is my understanding we are talking about prolonged screeching, tantrums, and uncontrolled, persistent nasty behavior.

Even people without kids understand that young children are going to cry, spill stuff, or cause mild inconveniences now and then, and IMO, only an unreasonable person is going to get irate over a child who cries in a restaurant if they are quieted -- or removed from the environment if they cannot be quieted.

I'm not going to pretend to know what the acceptable time limit is for a kid being noisy or out of control in a restaurant is, but I think we can all agree that:

  1. it is reasonable to expect at least some tolerance from waitstaff and other patrons if you are out for a meal with a child; and
  2. it is unreasonable to expect waitstaff/other patrons to tolerate continued piercing screams or other bad behavior that parents will not or can not put a quick stop to.

And again, we're talking about a lot more than "some tolerance" here -- the catalyst for this thread was a toddler that screamed for 40+ minutes while the parents did nothing! So while I agree with pretty much everything you said here, I can't help but feel you are making a separate argument.

 

:eek:

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I am trying to make more of a general argument, and asking for a bit of (reasonable) patience from the "childless". I think we do agree on most things, but we're coming at it from 2 different sides. We agree there are terrible parents. We agree that SOMETHING should be done when a kid acts out.

 

But as you saw from my weekend experience, what parents should do seems to depend on whether you have (small) children or not. I really think those ladies wanted me to scream at or spank Ethan. As his parent, I know that won't help. And I know childless people don't like hearing this, but sometimes the best thing you can do is ignore an annoying (but not dangerous) behavior for a few minutes or gently correct. Just like I'm a lot nicer to people when they ask nicely, kids generally respond better if requests are not screamed at them or if they're not called names. Like I said, this was maybe 5 minutes total of Ethan being noisy, and it's not like that was 5 minutes of straight screaming. And once we stopped paying attention to it because we were distracted by screechy old harpies, the behavior stopped. That's why I'm asking for a certain level of patience. The pediatrician actually told us that the best thing we can do with toddler temper tantrums is to make sure they're safe, and let them throw a fit. Obviously, when you're out in public, you don't have all day to let them do that. But this wasn't even a temper tantrum, this was a happy kid making happy sounds, but loudly. We were in the process of distracting him when these ladies patience ran out and they decided we needed to escalate our "discipline". While the parents in the earlier scenario might have let it go a little long, I think these women could have used a little restraint and patience. Not to mention they were actually done eating, and then didn't bus their table like a-holes.

 

When my in-laws visit or we visit them, they drive me nuts because they want to do a lot of kid unfriendly things, and they go way too fast-paced. The kids don't want to be stuck in the car all day driving around, they need their naps (although bonus points if you can combine a long drive with nap time, but they don't think like that). They've raised 3 kids and they seem to have completely forgotten that small kids take twice as long to do anything and that there are some places that kids are going to get bored, and they're going to make you pay for it. So the kids get in trouble, and I end up sitting in the car with them. Not my idea of how I want to spend my vacation. And if that's not how they want to spend their vacation, they should quit trying to take vacations with us.

 

I have friends who don't believe in telling their children "no", or in any sort of correction whatsoever. And it's not because they're lazy, they are very involved parents. Unfortunately, it's in response to them having had parents who were TOO strict with them, and had miserable childhoods. Obviously, neither of those parenting methods are a good idea. (Although somehow my one friend's kid is pretty much an angel despite her parents being so lenient in the name of discovery and kindness and rainbows. I'm waiting for her to hit teenage years.)

 

I do agree with the comments on burnout. Expectations for parents are ridiculously high now. You get judged for everything you do or don't do. I think some parents are helicoptery because they've been told they aren't doing ENOUGH, which is ridiculous. Since you're apparently not allowed to have a life of your own anymore when you become a parent, because you have to play with or somehow enrich your child every second of their waking hours, you have to live vicariously through your kids. And it's an easy trap to fall into. We've tried to sign Quinn up for activities until we realized we were exhausted and she really didn't care what we were doing, as long as we were together and she was active. She doesn't need dance lessons, she has dance parties at home. She plays soccer and goes to music class at daycare, so I just have to cut them a check instead of worrying about scheduling our lives around it. We've moved to being less structured on weekends because she gets enough of that during the week. That said, we're starting 4 weeks of swim lessons this weekend because she really liked grandma's pool and she really should learn how to swim. But all this parent-baby enrichment stuff is just overboard busy-ness. Milennials are showing signs of severe anxiety because they've been so sheltered and structured and OMG real life is HARD. My parents weren't around a ton because they owned their own business and my mom was sick, so I was one of the few who had to step it up and do things for myself. While it didn't seem like it at the time, I was lucky in that regard.

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New category about annoying kids and bad parenting.

 

My wife dragged me to IKEA today. Holy Jesus that place is crazy, busy,and just big. Anyway she wanted to buy some cabinets but anyone who has ever been to ikea and bought something is when you get to the end of this made in Sweden labyrinth you have to find all the pieces to what you are buying.

 

Now this ikea has a kid play area, which I assume you pay money for but I am not sure. Anyway there was two mothers with 3 kids that decided not to do the playground deal while shopping. The kids were aged around 7 to 11 years old. These kids were running everywhere and bumping into everything and everyone including me twice. Never once saying sorry or excuse me. Meanwhile the two mothers did nothing, never picked up their kids mess or anything. About halfway through I put on my teacher voice and said "you 3 need to get control of yourselves right now and stay with your parents and stop running around now go."

 

One of the mothers of course saw me correcting her kids and said to her kids come over here now and stop running around. She kind of looked at me and rolled her eyes. I walked on with my wife and thought okay problem solved.

 

Half hour later I am getting a dolley to pick up the pieces and guess who is running around jumping on empty shelf areas and once again being stupid? The 3 kids. This time they have clogged up the dolley machine which spits out dolleys every 15 seconds. Well they backed up the system and jammed it. So guess who cannot get a dolley to buy the pieces I need? Me and a few other customers. This time I had it and told the 3 kids to get lost and went looking for an employee to un jam the machine. Next thing I know the mom is yelling at me. Before I uttered a word my wife and another customer told the mom off saying her little terrors are out of control and are being unsafe in a store. I then chimed in and said "lady if one of these kids gets hurt I will be ikeas star witness if you attempt to sue the store for you not controling your kids. Now be a freaking parent and get control of your kids. An ikea person shows up and tells the lady to watch her kids because they to had warned the kids at another time I didnt see.

 

So that was my day at freaking ikea. I could not wait to get out of that place!

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Can we now redo this entire thread, replacing screaming kids for barking dogs?

I would say cats for the win but mine likes to sky dive from the drapes onto my legs at 4 am in the morning.

 

RM! Were you and your wife at the IKEA where people got knifed!? It made the local news!

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No. Florida.

We used to have this guy named Darth Pigfeet who was a teacher from Florida. Populist, tough-guy conservative like you, too. Oh, and another one named Hammurabi-Sith -- always getting into confrontations, just like you. What a crazy coincidence! You three ever meet up?

 

:eek:

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I remember Darth Pigfeet. Left a lasting impression for some reason.

 

RM did you ever consider become a cop at one point when you were thinking of what road to go down career wise? I have this idea you'd cut a good silhouette.

Edited by Odine
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