Am I allowed to hate all parties involved? Both crappy parents who don't respect other people's space/life/feeding time as well as business owners who can't find a way to settle things without going ballistic?
Our society has a huge problem when it comes to treating children with respect. (We actually have a problem treating anybody with respect, but yeah.) They're noisy, unsophisticated, uninformed, and selfish, but still people nonetheless. Sometimes I don't know what's worse, childless people who assume they're automatically better than anybody over 18, or parents who automatically assume their children's needs are less important than their own laziness.
But in this instance, based on the spelling and grammar in the Facebook post and reply, I'm going to call the diner owner the bigger idiot. Why is making "3 full sized pancakes" an issue at a diner? Wtf is that about?
What? While I agree both the diner owner could have handled the situation better and the parents should have just taken their food to go when the kid started acting out, where is this "society doesn't treat kids with respect" idea coming from?
Kids are treated with more respect than ever, and in some cases too much respect. In schools and in society in general, everyone is concerned with hurting little Jonny's feelings, or burstingthe bubble of parents that maybe, possibly little Jonny ISN'T the perfect little child. Children are constantly coddled these days in school or otherwise, and parents seem more sensitive to any type of constructive criticism or requests for them to get a handle on their unruly kids more than ever.
If there is a problem these days, it is that parents these days fail to discipline their children when in public, or at least calm them down and tell their kids to be aware of other people and to not act out. This situation where parents just let the kid cry, piss and moan is all too common, and I see it all the time. I often see kids crying and throwing tantrums in public, or running around unattended in stores or restaurants, acting like brats and making messes, while the parents look on and do nothing. I hate going to the movies anymore because rather than remove a crying or noisy child, a lot of parents are content to just sit there in the theater, and let their kid make all the noise or misbehave all they want, thereby ruining the movie experience for all around them, rather than doing the decent thing and removing their kid from the theater until they behave.There is no concept of manners anymore, and if children do act out in public and someone else tells them to mind their manners or ask the parent to control their child, 9 times out of 10, the parent(s) of the little hellion, rather than apologize, will often jump the sh*t of person asking the kid or parent to quiet down.
We live in an age where no one can speak up anymore and ask a parent to control a disruptive or misbehaving child anymore. In fact, parents these days are hypersensitive to anyone who tells them their kid is acting out, and will often rather than apologize, lash out and take the attitude that since they are used to little Jonny acting like a monster, everyone else should just deal with it too.
Maybe you and Driver personally teach your kids to be respectful of others in public and to behave, and if so Kudos, and this isn't directed at anyone here necessarily. But there are a lot of bad parents out there who don't, and I think it is very disrespectful to others when parents fail to discipline their kids and teach them to not act like a pack of wild animals in public. I also have found that usually the apple does NOT fall far from the tree, and if a kid is an absolute brat, far more often than not, when you meet the parents of said brat, you will find they are usually a-holes.
What parenting technique justifies allowing a kid to scream for 20-40 minutes in public?
idk maybe situational?
My neighbor has two young boys, and from my deck, you can hear one of them screaming and stomping and kicking at the walls from approximately 8-9pm every night because it's too early for bed ("It's still light out, mom!!").
From this, I infer they have a "cry it out" philosophy. No idea if it's working, 'cause I've lived here for less than a month (maybe he's getting worse? Maybe he used to cry until 11pm?), but if they are sticking to their guns despite his tantrums, good for them. I can hear the screaming "in public," but it doesn't bother me, because it's really not in my personal space, and I can still have guests over and chat without it being too distracting (depending on their timing, the screams can even punctuate a conversation in unexpected yet hilarious ways).
I'd say that's justified, even though I can technically hear everything that's going on in their house on my property.
I've also seen parents just stand there, apparently waiting out their tantrum-throwing kids at grocery stores. Never stuck around to see if they go a full 20-40 minutes, but as long as the kids aren't pulling stuff off the shelf or getting in anybody's way, I don't see a prob with it (though I couldn't tell you if it's effective or not).
Public transportation is a gray area. If you are a parent with a schedule to keep and you need to ride the bus or train, it's not like you can just get off, then get on the next one when your kid has calmed down. On the other hand, if you slap your kid into sweet, sweet silence, some jackass with opinions might give a lecture on feelings and make your ride even more unpleasant than it already is. No "good" options here; if you can't find a way to shut your kid up, your least bad option is probably just to let them scream.
Places you can't justify long periods of screaming in public are where people are either trying to relax and have a good time (restaurants), trying hard to focus on something other than a screaming child (theater, concert, poetry reading [though it would probably improve the poetry reading experience for me]), or places where distractions can actually be dangerous (not sure why you'd have a screaming toddler in an F-16, but that would definitely be inappropriate).
Unless the child has some developmental issue where they literally can't help themselves, I can't disagree with you more.
I'm not a kid hater, but parents who choose to not teach their kids to behave in public and be mindful of other peoples' personal space is a serious pet peeve of mine. This "let them cry it out" philosophy is bull crap, and it really DOES bother me. Why should I have to stand in line and listen to some screaming brat for 20-40 minutes at the store? Why should I have my movie experience or quiet time with my s/o at a restaurant or anywhere else for that matter, rudely interrupted? Why should I have to put up with parents who cannot or choose not to quiet down their kids? I think for parents who have kids who are just noise boxes, they need to be mindful of the disruption their kids create and if their kids can't behave, then they need to just stay home and NOT take their kids out until they are at an age where they can behave, rather than be selfish and spoil the experience for everyone else around them.