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SW: Rebels and Clone Wars. What makes them so damn good?


Stevil
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I watched season 2 episode 1 of Rebels the other day. It was fantastic. It made me blow the dust off my Clone Wars blurays. I'd given up on Clone Wars some time ago because I heard they were resurrecting a character and it sounded a bit far fetched.

But, I picked up Season 2 out the cabinet and started to watch again because I really wanted some more back-story on Ahsoka Tano. I always thought she was pretty cool in a slightly annoying teenager way. But when Grown-Up Ahsoka was revealed as Fulcrum I jumped out my chair. And to see that character interact with her former master in Rebels was amazing and I can't wait to see how that pans out.

But going back to Clone Wars I'd forgotten how good this was too. So it inspired me to write this topic. Just what is it that makes these cartoons so damn good? They are the very essence of Star Wars for me and I think that is an amazing feat.

Is it the familiar music? The stunning visuals and amazing animation? The writing? The characters? The fight scenes? The politics? The length of the episodes, Dave Filoni and his Staff? I really can't put my finger on why they are so cleverly done.

I shouted out in the middle of one episode the other day... "Y-Wings... So cool". I don't shout out but this made me want to. I don't get why I have so much compassion for the clones and I hate it when 'Johnny White Helmet' dies in a blast or an explosion. It's even worse when he's got a name!!

Damn I love this stuff.

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Two words, Dave Feloni. EP of both shows. Grew up a fan of the OT, became an animator/storyteller in his own right and wrangled the job.

 

simply put, he knew what OT fans wanted the PT to be, more importantly, as a storyteller he knew what it had to be, and he set about making it despite Lucas.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

I agree Dave Feloni really gets it as far as Star Wars is concerned. It's a shame GL didn't hire Dave Feloni (or someone like him) when he was still making the PT to help with the writing. It probably wouldn't have taken a whole lot of tweaking by Feloni to dial the PT story line in to make mounds of difference.

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GL is EP on Clone Wars (All episodes) and Dave is Associate Producer. Dave was Supervising Director for 88 episodes and directed 6 himself. I don't think he did the writing though.

 

Dave is EP on Star Wars: Rebels directing 5 Episodes. GL wrote 7 episodes which is no surprise seeing as the stories were probably lifted from the live action TV show. Dave only gets a mention as a writer as one of the series creators.

 

All info lifted from IMDB.

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The best change for CW came in season 3, about half way in. The style, stories and over all quality of the show improved. Yes there was the resurrection of Darth Maul but this is Sci-Fi and it made for the best light-saber fights in the show.

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GL is EP on Clone Wars (All episodes) and Dave is Associate Producer. Dave was Supervising Director for 88 episodes and directed 6 himself. I don't think he did the writing though.

 

Dave is EP on Star Wars: Rebels directing 5 Episodes. GL wrote 7 episodes which is no surprise seeing as the stories were probably lifted from the live action TV show. Dave only gets a mention as a writer as one of the series creators.

 

All info lifted from IMDB.

 

That's because GL was automatic EP of anything SW. He was listed as such on video games too. If you look at any interviews, BTS, or con stuff it's clear as day Feloni was the day to day showrunner

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George Lucas ... executive producer (122 episodes, 2008-2014) Cary Silver ... producer (104 episodes, 2009-2014) Athena Yvette Portillo ... line producer / associate producer (50 episodes, 2008-2014) Catherine Winder ... executive producer / producer (48 episodes, 2008-2010) Mary Maffei ... line producer / co-executive producer (15 episodes, 2009-2010)

 

These are the lised producers from IMDB of any note. Dave Filoni is not mentioned. I just knew he was Associate Producer as it's mentioned in the credits. Woudn't one of these be the show runner?

 

Wiki says:

 

"He is the director of the Star Wars: The Clone Wars feature film, and the supervising director of the Star Wars: The Clone Wars TV series."

 

and...

 

"Filoni is serving as an executive producer of Star Wars Rebels, which debuted in fall 2014, alongside Greg Weisman and Simon Kinberg."

 

I'm not being picky, I just think we should be clear on what his role was seeing as he has already been set as Animator, Writer, Director, Executive Producer, Janitor and Lord God and Saviour.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

The best change for CW came in season 3, about half way in. The style, stories and over all quality of the show improved. Yes there was the resurrection of Darth Maul but this is Sci-Fi and it made for the best light-saber fights in the show.

The Darth Maul resurrection was actually handled pretty well. The only gripe I had was the tarantula-man and the shark people, but hey, it IS a cartoon, after all, so those get a pass.

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George Lucas ... executive producer (122 episodes, 2008-2014) Cary Silver ... producer (104 episodes, 2009-2014) Athena Yvette Portillo ... line producer / associate producer (50 episodes, 2008-2014) Catherine Winder ... executive producer / producer (48 episodes, 2008-2010) Mary Maffei ... line producer / co-executive producer (15 episodes, 2009-2010)

 

These are the lised producers from IMDB of any note. Dave Filoni is not mentioned. I just knew he was Associate Producer as it's mentioned in the credits. Woudn't one of these be the show runner?

 

Wiki says:

 

"He is the director of the Star Wars: The Clone Wars feature film, and the supervising director of the Star Wars: The Clone Wars TV series."

 

and...

 

"Filoni is serving as an executive producer of Star Wars Rebels, which debuted in fall 2014, alongside Greg Weisman and Simon Kinberg."

 

I'm not being picky, I just think we should be clear on what his role was seeing as he has already been set as Animator, Writer, Director, Executive Producer, Janitor and Lord God and Saviour.

 

Generally speaking, in a movie, the EP oversees the project, but the director is the head creative.

 

In TV, the showrunner is usually the head creative and is the EP and individual episodes are captained by directors according to the EP's wishes.

 

In animated features, you often have directing teams working on different segments and they are called leads or co-directors and they report to a supervising director or EP. Or if it's Pixar, just plain director.

 

In TV animation things can get very confusing depending on whose name is selling the series, and who is making it. For example, Bruce Timm, who everyone acknowledges as the man behind the classic DC animated universe from the 90s forward, was only credited as a producer and character design for Batman TAS (and director for the episodes he directed). But in designing the characters and being the the producer in charge of storyboarding every episode, he was pretty much the boss/showrunner. But EP credit went to Tom Ruegger because he was head of WB animation at the time.

 

Filoni, as the director of the first episode of Clone Wars (the movie) basically oversaw character design, the writing room and production that set up all the pipelines for the series. He was given the supervising director title as he oversaw individual episode directors and producers, again, because Lucas reserved the EP credit since Star Wars was his creation. From the people I know who worked on the show, Lucas would take part in the general arc building, but be hands off unless he had a particular story idea he wanted to see to fruition. The guy there, day to to day, minding the store was Filoni.

 

And FYI, ANY production, be it TV, animation or film, hands off associate producer credits. This could be anything-- generally a voice in the room, or an advisor, or somebody who added ideas to the mix, but had no power. Line producers are the people who do the day to day grunt work of organizing schedules, making sure people get paid, that everyone is doing their job and other such logistics.

 

Also Also, keep in mind Clone Wars was produced in-house at Lucasfilm meaning their titles and responsibilities did not follow any sort of rules as they were an indie production company selling a product to the Cartoon Network. Rebels is a Disney property meaning it is being made according to union rules and regulations which is why Filoni now has the title he deserves. Kinberg is a story guy and part of the SW braintrust, Wiseman is an animated series vet who can manage a huge team, and Filioni, again, is the guy on the ground overseeing the day to day work.

 

Like I said, look at any con panel, behind the scenes video, or in-depth coverage of Clone Wars and most of the time, you'll see Filoni as the voice of the show.

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I don't really see how I'm being a wet blanket. Just for having a somewhat dissenting opinion?

 

If I started a thread and basically said "man, I rewatched the prequels recently and man I really do love them!" what do you think the reaction would be? You don't really have to answer, we all know what the general reaction would be. And that's fine, I don't want to restart any debate on that. But would that make everyone who disagreed with my assessment a "wet blanket"?

 

My only point was that I do like both shows from what I've seen, but they are what they are. If the prequels had Darth Maul come back in Episode II with mechanical spider legs it would have been ripped apart, and rightfully so. If he had a brother named "Savage Oppress", well I can barely imagine the reaction.

 

Either way I guess I haven't paid attention to this board over the years. I guess that whenever someone likes or loves something that no one ever has the opposite opinion. Or in this case not even opposite, just less enthusiastic. I'll refrain from expressing opinions in the future.

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It's cool Choc.

 

I think that the Clone Wars had the worst story arc in all of Star Wars at one point and both are generally boring.

 

Now you are, at best, a damp blanket.

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Anakin in the cartoon is a million times more on the money for how the character should have portrayed than he was in the movies.

I could not agree more.. The Clone Wars is 50/50 with good stories to bad. But when you watch them in order you can see the big growth of the company. Anyone that can watch the 5th season and not get involved with the plots there is brain dead.

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Anakin in the cartoon is a million times more on the money for how the character should have portrayed than he was in the movies.

You see I still kind of disagree... I mean no-one imagined he was going to have a padawan for example. His character is still derivative of the established prequels. However I understand where you're coming from. Anakin in CW is infinitely more likeable than Anakin in the Prequels. There's no whiny kid/adolescent to him in it. He is closest to the ROTS Anakin. So is Obi for that matter. But without Christensen and McGregor's Portrayals those characters/stories would not have existed. You may have imagined their personas being simlar but they borrow so much from the established films for me to agree with your initial point.

 

I would say they took what was there and went with it and made it a bit better or maybe a bit more accessible.

 

I would agree more if you said it was closer to what you imagined the clone wars to be like. That is someting CW does very well. It makes you understand that there's a battle on many fronts and the whole galaxy is in turmoil.

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I'll put it like this. If I found one of those people who've never seen Star Wars and showed them the OT and they asked to see what happened in the clone Wars that were mentioned, I'd show them the uneven, but well intentioned cartoon over the horribly written/executed PT movies.

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