Flying the Confederate flag in SC

[The Choc]

The thing is this, the flag is offensive to people. And I think its legit offense. Not like only offensive to overly sensitive people. The reasons for it don't really matter, so it doesn't matter if the flag didn't originally stand for hatred and it doesn't matter if you aren't displaying it for hatred. If you know it is going to offend a relatively large group of people, then why would you want to display it?

 

I realize there is a difference between a Nazi flag and the CSA flag, basically there is only one reason a person would display that. Whereas there are other reasons someone may display a CSA flag, perhaps a respect for history or the fact that it symbolizes rebellion in general. But like I said, I think it does legit offend a good segment of people. So, why display it? What does one get out of displaying it, knowing that it offends others?

[RelentlessMalice]

Burt the difference between the American Revolution and the Confederacy is

 

The reasons for breaking away is different. Plus and this is the # 1 reason for me. The south lost the war! Period the end. Losers are not entitled to fly their POS flag anymore. To the victor go the spoils. So you can call it heritage,history,etc... But it is a history and heritage of being a loser, a political bully, upholding a horrible economic institution in slavery.

 

I am a southerner and know plenty of backwards thinking folks in my years and alot of them I do not get along with because they are nothing but traitors and I tell them that. They need to let go off that dumbass past and move on. They are beyond ignorant morons.

[Tex]

Totally agree. Just gid rid of it. Ramble all you want about heritage not hate, it's a petty fight. Let it go.

 

Unlike the Confederate flag, though, the swastika used to symbolize something positive. It's better off going away, of course, but I find it interesting that for most of its history the swas was the exact opposite of what we think of today.

[Guest El Chalupacabra]

Totally agree. Just gid rid of it. Ramble all you want about heritage not hate, it's a petty fight. Let it go.

 

Unlike the Confederate flag, though, the swastika used to symbolize something positive. It's better off going away, of course, but I find it interesting that for most of its history the swas was the exact opposite of what we think of today.

Yup. The meaning of symbols change over time, and people need to change with the times. Once a symbol is largely seen in a negative light, it's pretty hard to come back from it.

 

And for the Southerners who just have to have some flag to symbolize their patriotism and "southern heritage (not hate)" mantra, just pick another damn flag. Like, I don't know, the US flag.

 

But I support the right for people to be morons if they want, as long as no one is being hurt. In fact, I want people to fly whatever flag they want, if for no other reason to know who the morons are.

[Odine]

 

Forgive me for being the devils advocate here but I'm assuming that PMJ's point was in refrence to the fact that the Nazi Swastika was a flag used by a regeime who's goals included the systematic and total genocide of an ethnic population from the face of the earth

Come on, the Jews kind of deserved it

 

Whereas the confederate flag was one that represented a bunch of dicks who wanted slaves and were racist. Similar, but kind of not the same in any way.

The south and the Germans have one thing in common. They encourage white folk to look down on other white folk in a pathetic attempt to alleviate their guilt.

 

Read a book.

 

It's whereas, btw.

Besides correcting my typo what was your point?

[Guest]

I"ll just chime in and agree with what many have said:
Any individual should be free to fly the flag. I am also free to immediately decide the person is not someone I'll enjoy spending time with, and I will immediately assume the person is racist and hates America and wishes that he lived elsewhere.

 

No state should be flying any Confederate flag.

[RelentlessMalice]

I love all the aholes on facebook who want everyone to share the confederate flag bs. Get a ****ing life and get on a winning team!

[Pong Messiah]

straighten up and fly right guys geez

[Carrie Mathison]

I've never had a huge issue with the flag though I think people who display it are kinda silly. As I've explained before on this board:

 

 

 

Overall though, I have to say that I generally shake my head when I see the Confederate flag. Not because I think it is necessarily racist, per se, but more because the South, and Southern heritage deserves to be mocked. There's nothing funnier than driving down I-65 and stopping briefly at a Waffle House to see the customers, their Confederate flags, and whatever those dismal poors clothe themselves with. It's like going to the zoo, but even better. The South certainly has a right to be proud if they wish. But it doesn't stop me at laughing at the poorest area of the country at their pathetic attempts to keep their cause relevant, as if their pitiful little rebellion ever had a chance over the mighty North. So yes, you have your southern pride, your Cracker Barrel, your Roll Tide, and your Baptist Churches. And I have my money. Seeing someone proudly wave that flag is like seeing a fat person wearing a T-shirt that says "Big Is Beautiful" on it. You have a good chuckle at their expense, thank god you weren't born in their shoes, and go on about your day.

 

 

I basically still feel the same way. Never really gets under my skin... it's more a "roll your eyes" moment. I look at people that display the flag as more pathetic than anything else.

 

That being said, it's an elementary principle of constitutional law that government speech is not protected speech in the same way that private speech is, so legally no one has any "right" to have the confederate flag displayed on government property. If the SC government has made the determination that they no longer wish to display the flag, then I don't really see any problem with that.

 

Here's what I do have a problem with: first, the way the church tragedy was immediately seized upon by liberals and SJWs to disingenuously profit off the tragedy to go after their bucket list of things that piss them off. Gun control was up first, but when they saw that wasn't taking hold, they turned to the flag. Shameless.

 

Second, how this issue has gone from a reasonable point (lower the flag on government property), to the absolute absurd. Yesterday, Apple announced it was banning all Civil War games that have the confederate flag in it. Yes, you read that right. We're talking about war and strategy games that have icons of the flag in it, in order to have a historically accurate depiction of Civil War battles.

 

I was hoping this was an Onion article when I heard about it. But, then I thought, why would it be? We're talking about SJWs and progressives here, people that have one goal and one goal only: the lynch mob. And really, this is one reason why I do not, and have never, described myself as either progressive or even (rarely) liberal, even though I actually tend to have many liberal viewpoints (especially on social issues). And, along those lines, why I f-cking hate hanging out with leftist crowds. Because it's never enough to just get a win on a reasonable point that most moderates, and even many conservatives agree with (i.e. lowering the flag in SC). No. It f-cking always has to be a race to the thought-police. What's next? Are we gonna go back to the films Gettysburg and Glory and erase out the Confederate flags because seeing them makes people feel bad? Sh-t, why don't we just rewrite the history books while we're at it.

 

Really kinda sad that SJWs are intent on turning the US into the Soviet Union.

[Guest El Chalupacabra]

I've never had a huge issue with the flag though I think people who display it are kinda silly.

 

 

 

It's not something that personally offends me a whole lot, but I am not of the south, either, so I don't get the attachment to the confederate flag in the first place. Well, more properly, I understand the supposed heritage not hate argument, I just think it is an invalid one, because the contemporary meaning to many people is that the confederate flag represents racial division and I don't understand why the attachment to the southern cross battle flag. Jeeze, want to be patriotic? Then just fly an American flag, or pick a different flag as a substitute for the confederate battle flag (a politically correct confederate flag, if you will), or create a new flag without the legacy of racism. Does an individual have the right to display a confederate flag. Absolutely. People have the right to be and act like morons if they want.

 

 

That being said, it's an elementary principle of constitutional law that government speech is not protected speech in the same way that private speech is, so legally no one has any "right" to have the confederate flag displayed on government property. If the SC government has made the determination that they no longer wish to display the flag, then I don't really see any problem with that.

 

 

That I am not so sure about. If you can provide an example to the contrary, I'd love to see it. To be sure, I personally don't think any state, county, or municipality ought to be flying a confederate flag on state or local government property, except in the case of a museum, or in some capacity that is legitimately educationally related. But I also think that states do have the right to pass laws (so long as they don't violate Federal law or the constitution), even bad ones, like what SC did.

 

I don't agree with it, and I think it is unseemly for a state to be flying the flag of a failed attempt at secession as well as one that was essentially flown by southern states on state property as a not-so-subtle FU to the federal government during the civil rights movement in the 1960s, but I think states have the legal right to pass a law like SC did that says they will fly a confederate battle flag on state capital grounds.

 

It's stupid for sure, but unless and until there is either a federal law that outlaws it, or there is a SCOTUS ruling that says it is unconstitutional, states should be allowed. Now, I think other people, and even other states should be allowed protest and to heap all the criticism and shame on any state that does fly a confederate flag on state property, as well.

 

 

Second, how this issue has gone from a reasonable point (lower the flag on government property), to the absolute absurd. Yesterday, Apple announced it was banning all Civil War games that have the confederate flag in it. Yes, you read that right. We're talking about war and strategy games that have icons of the flag in it, in order to have a historically accurate depiction of Civil War battles.

Agreed. This is ridiculous. But Apple does have the right to do that to games they own.

[Ms. Spam]

I think this illustrates how much a small group of idiots with low critical thinking skills have power over corporations and government. They expending political capital on what was originally meant as a sign of respect for those in Charleston to lower the flag. A flag making business in San Antonio announced they were going to stop making the Confederate flag. I would be curious to know what percentage of sales the flag made for them.

[Guest El Chalupacabra]

A flag making business in San Antonio announced they were going to stop making the Confederate flag. I would be curious to know what percentage of sales the flag made for them.

This appears to be the answer

 

"There's no reason to fuel the fire," Van de Putte said to the San Antonio Business Journal. "It's such a small part of the business. It's not worth the trouble."

 

http://www.sacurrent.com/Blogs/archives/2015/06/23/local-manufacturer-to-stop-making-selling-confederate-flags

[Tex]

I'll always have an issue with the way the South is constantly demonized. Slave labor, along with indentured servitude, were both critical for our survival. We wouldn't have the America we have today without it. Same can be said about our conquest of the Indians and the Mexicans.

 

Grow the fuck up. Quit being so myopic.

[Carrie Mathison]

That I am not so sure about. ... I think states have the legal right to pass a law like SC did that says they will fly a confederate battle flag on state capital grounds.

 

It's stupid for sure, but unless and until there is either a federal law that outlaws it, or there is a SCOTUS ruling that says it is unconstitutional, states should be allowed. Now, I think other people, and even other states should be allowed protest and to heap all the criticism and shame on any state that does fly a confederate flag on state property, as well.

I didn't say they didn't have the right. You mis-read what I was saying. What I was saying is the principle of government speech means that constitutionally, it's not protected in the same way that private speech is. In other words, government speech can be regulated, doesn't need to be viewpoint neutral, and so on. By virtue of that, SC can decide to fly the flag if they wish, or also that they won't fly the flag- they can basically do whatever they see fit. Either way though, no one has a "right" to demand it either be flown, or not flown, since it is government speech that is not protected by the 1st Amendment. I was explaining why this situation is different than someone privately flying the flag from the legal perspective. I wasn't arguing the flag couldn't be lowered.

Agreed. This is ridiculous. But Apple does have the right to do that to games they own.

Sure, but I wasn't arguing they don't. What I'm arguing against is how this event was seized by leftists and SJWs to be exploited for their own personal agenda, and how such agenda has created this ridiculous frenzy and culture of self-censorship over stuff that no one in their right mind thinks is offensive. A society where a culture like that can exist is also one that stops valuing free speech and is more susceptible to allowing the government in outlawing certain speech, which is dangerous in my opinion.

[Guest El Chalupacabra]

^ I agree on both points, CM.

[Darth Ender]

fuck...I hate the south.

[The Kurgan]

 

 

... Never really gets under my skin... it's more a "roll your eyes" moment. I look at people that display the flag as more pathetic than anything else.

 

That being said, it's an elementary principle of constitutional law that government speech is not protected speech in the same way that private speech is, so legally no one has any "right" to have the confederate flag displayed on government property. If the SC government has made the determination that they no longer wish to display the flag, then I don't really see any problem with that.

 

Here's what I do have a problem with: first, the way the church tragedy was immediately seized upon by liberals and SJWs to disingenuously profit off the tragedy to go after their bucket list of things that piss them off. Gun control was up first, but when they saw that wasn't taking hold, they turned to the flag. Shameless. [bravo!]

 

Second, how this issue has gone from a reasonable point (lower the flag on government property), to the absolute absurd. Yesterday, Apple announced it was banning all Civil War games that have the confederate flag in it. Yes, you read that right. We're talking about war and strategy games that have icons of the flag in it, in order to have a historically accurate depiction of Civil War battles.

 

I was hoping this was an Onion article when I heard about it. But, then I thought, why would it be? We're talking about SJWs and progressives here, people that have one goal and one goal only: the lynch mob. And really, this is one reason why I do not, and have never, described myself as either progressive or even (rarely) liberal, even though I actually tend to have many liberal viewpoints (especially on social issues). And, along those lines, why I f-cking hate hanging out with leftist crowds. Because it's never enough to just get a win on a reasonable point that most moderates, and even many conservatives agree with (i.e. lowering the flag in SC). No. It f-cking always has to be a race to the thought-police. What's next? Are we gonna go back to the films Gettysburg and Glory and erase out the Confederate flags because seeing them makes people feel bad? Sh-t, why don't we just rewrite the history books while we're at it.

 

Really kinda sad that SJWs are intent on turning the US into the Soviet Union.

 

 

More letsgo/CM gold. Love it!