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Leaked Sony Agreement: Spider-Manís Peter Parker Canít be Black or Gay


26 replies to this topic

#1
Justus

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http://www.latino-review.com/news/spider-mans-peter-parker-cant-be-black-or-gay-states-leaked-sony-agreement

 

Some will argue that no major company is going to mess with their flagship character. Others will say the Sony document says more about how the PTB see / know the world than current, sold media interpretations of the "changing America / world" than anyone will admit.

 

If legitimate, it is an interesting wrinkle about the limits of creative choice / risk-taking, as the Marvel film universe tries so hard to be easy to swallow ice cream for the masses.



#2
Durty D

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I not sure where I stand on this to be honest. 

 

The Sony document is just them protecting a flagging IP and wrestling for control with Marvel.

 

If the aim is to keep Spider-Man as Peter Parker then I don't think the world needs a black Peter Parker...seems like the mirror to the whitewash that Hollywood has done with 'ethnic' characters over the years.

If we want to see Spider-Man reflect the diversity in society then I'd much rather them just go with a Spider-Man who is black/Asian/whatever...and is someone other than Peter Parker.  

 

I liked what they did with Miles Morales in US-M why not start there in the new movie?



#3
Driver

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Because market testing.

 

White dudes still buy more movie tickets than anyone else.

 

Every movie made in Hollywood is weighed against demographics like this. You can say it's sexist, racist and classist, and it is to an extent-- but it's not conscious with Hollywood-- it's money driven. If Burmese gay siamese twins became the primary demographic for movie tickets, 90% of movies made would star Burmese gay siamese twins.
 

The Sony edict actually says Peter Parker has to be a straight white dude, but Spider-Man does not if Marvel presents him otherwise (which they have with Miles).


Edited by Driver, 23 June 2015 - 10:56 AM.


#4
The Human Torch

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I don't get the outrage that I guess is out there about this. So many other problems in this world to fret over these days. For starters Sony doesn't insist Peter has brown hair. The ****?!

#5
R.CAllen

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It's weird. I'm not the biggest Spider-Man fan in the world (some affection for the classic stuff, can remember really liking what I saw of the 90s animated series, but I go hot and cold on contemporary Spider-Man and seem to prefer it when he shows up as a guest-star in other books or in team series rather than on his own) but even I can think up times where all these Musts and Does Not's have been set aside. Must be male? Ummm Spider-Girl ran for like 100 issues. Does not torture? Pretty sure there was some blogspot brouhaha about Spider-Man torturing people a few years back and even disregarding that when he was Doctor Octopus he tortured people all the time I think he even built custom torture chambers for that very purpose. Does not kill unless in defense of self or others? Ummm Spider-Man killed Uncle Ben and Gwen Stacy it's a pretty important part of Peter Parker Spider-Man's story. Does not use foul language beyond PG-13? Don't know for sure but some of that Yiddish Bendis put in his mouth in the Ultimate series was pretty spicy. Does not smoke tobacco? Come on I don't believe Pete hasn't had a stogie with Ben Grimm or Logan some time. Does not sell/distribute illegal drugs? They've got me there one of the earliest comics I can remember reading was a freebie handout where it was made very clear that Spider-Man does not condone the use and sale of illegal drugs and only a bad person like The Chameleon or the bad friend of the reader identification character would be involved with those bad drugs. Does not abuse alcohol? Oh come on Spider-Man gets drunk all the time the only instance that comes to mind is that Paul Jenkins issue where he tries stand-up comedy at an open night with Johnny Storm as his wingman but I'm sure there are more. Does not have sex before the age of 16, does not have sex with anyone below the age of 16? There was a whole Ultimate issue which was mostly just him and Mary Jane sitting around talking about if they were ready to take their relationship to the next level and their age was always pretty ambiguous --- could definitely have been under 16. Not a homosexual? I don't know Spider-Man reads pretty gay to me, if the people at Marvel didn't want me to make assumptions about Peter Parker's secret homosexual lifestyle maybe they shouldn't have had Spider-Man wipe away his heterosexual marriage from the memories and hearts of all involved. His full name is Peter Benjamin Parker? They spent a lot of time in the 90s trying to convince fans his name was actually Ben Reilly. He is Caucasian and heterosexual? Ugh again with this why does Peter's sex life matter so much to them the important part of Peter Parker's life is the conflict between getting Aunt May her medicine and stopping The Sandman from destroying everything at the Daily Bugle's offices not what he does with his penis and what the exact skin tone of said penis is. His parents become absent from his life during childhood? Didn't they die on a secret CIA mission when he was a baby but not really? From the time his parents become absent he is raised in New York City by his Aunt May and Uncle Ben? NO DURRRHHH. He gains his powers while attending middle school or college? Pretty sure he's at least in high school in Amazing Fantasy #15. He gains his powers from being bitten by a spider? I was going to write "NO DURRRHHH" again but then I remembered JMS thought the exact source of Spider-Man's powers was an important issue to revisit forty years after it was already conclusively established so yeah probably best to get that in writing Marvel and Sony legal departments wouldn't want any 'Ye'r an animal totem, Peter!' in your movie(s). He designs his first red and blue costume! I don't really remember but doesn't he just buy a wetsuit or something online in the first Andrew Garfield movie? The black costume is a symbiote and is not designed by him? Wait. No. When Spider-Man III came out in theaters and Civil War was ending (or was it Dark Reign? whatevre, one of the crossovrers) he changed to a black costume in the comics and it wasn't a symbiote! He is raised in a middle class household in Queens, New York? Middle class? Middle class? The only reason he starts wrestling is for the money to help with the household bills I never got the sense that Aunt May was financially secure or are they just specifying that Spider-Man can't be rich and live in a skyscraper with the Avengers because if so that's good that's smsart that makes sense.

 

In conclusion Spider-Man is a land of contrasts



#6
Driver

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Someday will you let me teach you about the carriage return?


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#7
El Chalupacabra

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According to the agreement, Spider-Man (not necessarily Peter Parker) must conform to the following:

  • Must be male
  • Does not torture
  • Does not kill unless in defense of self or others
  • Does not use foul language beyond PG-13
  • Does not smoke tobacco
  • Does not sell/distribute illegal drugs
  • Does not abuse alcohol
  • Does not have sex before the age of 16, does not have sex with anyone below the age of 16
  • Not a homosexual (unless Marvel has portrayed that alter ego as a homosexual)His full name is Peter Benjamin Parker
  • He is Caucasian and heterosexual
  • His parents become absent from his life during childhood
  • From the time his parents become absent he is raised by Aunt May and Uncle Ben in New York City
  • He gains his powers while attending either middle school or college
  • He gains his powers from being bitten by a spider
  • He designs his first red and blue costume
  • The black costume is a symbiote and is not designed by him
  • He is raised in a middle class household in Queens, New York
  • He attends or attended high school in Queens, New York, and he attends or attended college in New York City, New York

I don't see a big deal with this.  All this is stating is to not change Peter Parker from what he has classically been portrayed as in the comics, at least the prime universe version.

 

I actually like this idea of actually NOT changing the core elements of a comic character, given the train wreck that is the upcoming Fantastic Four movie.

 

I wouldn't be opposed to having an ultimate Spiderman or some alternate universe version on the big screen where any or all core elements are up for change, just so long as it is made clear that it is a different universe.



#8
Darth Krawlie

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Casting announcement was made today anyway.



#9
R.CAllen

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Someday will you let me teach you about the carriage return?

 

At first my post was all perfectly formatted as a series of individual one-to-two sentence paragraphs with the quoted lines from the Sony/Marvel agreement in bold to differentiate them from my super important commentary but then something happpened (either with my computer or the buggy Nightly interface) and it all ended up on the screen in a single giant block of text and I decided that I liked it better that way.

 

I did, however, go back and edit the last line so it stood out on its own. I'M NOT A MONSTER.


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#10
NumberSix

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Disagree. There is absolutely no universe in which a valid Spider-Man would smoke a cigar.



#11
NumberSix

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Also, Holland's Instagram samples are hypnotic and I can't stop watching them:

 

http://www.comicbook...y-in-new-videos



#12
R.CAllen

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Disagree. There is absolutely no universe in which a valid Spider-Man would smoke a cigar.

 

I wish I had a Google Image Search for my brain because a Fred Hembeck gag strip where he does just that is floating to the surface of my memory --- then again, it's probably just a delusion paired to whatever particular type of semi-aphasia makes me think it makes sense to string 53 sentences together into a single paragraph.

 

anyway back on topic : a sixth Spider-Man movie so exciting I have such high hopes for it; I bet it'll make Spider-Man 2 (2004) look like The Amazing Spider-Man 2 (2014)



#13
NumberSix

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I wish I had a Google Image Search for my brain because a Fred Hembeck gag strip where he does just that is floating to the surface of my memory --- then again, it's probably just a delusion paired to whatever particular type of semi-aphasia makes me think it makes sense to string 53 sentences together into a single paragraph.


Oh, I could totes imagine Hembeck drawing such a drawing, but "valid" was the gatekeeper in my declaration of a stogie-free Spidey.
 

a sixth Spider-Man movie so exciting I have such high hopes for it; I bet it'll make Spider-Man 2 (2004) look like The Amazing Spider-Man 2 (2014)


Wow, those ARE high hopes!

 

Casting news generally bounces right off my wait-and-see veneer, but I like the idea of going with a much younger Spidey, provided we don't have to endure countless scenes of him being lectured by the other Marvel Cinematic Universe heroes like they're his stepdads. Something about one of Marvel's oldest, proudest heroes being condescended to by characters who owe their very existence to his success just irritates me in a meta sort of way. The reason I dropped Ultimate Spidey years ago is because I couldn't handle a universe in which Spidey is the junior-league wannabe hero expected to accept nagging about youth and inexperience from second-stringers like Iron Fist and Moon Knight.  Ha ha ha ha ha no.



#14
The Human Torch

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Oh, you guys were literally talking about cigars. See what I was picturing...

#15
RamonAtila

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but I bet spiderman can be a latino. 



#16
Duke

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This was probably one of the weirdest internet rages in all the long history of internet rages. A contract that says that film-Peter Parker has to be a lot like comics-Peter Parker? The horror! The homophobes! The racists! The non-smokers!



#17
monkeygirl

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I'm still looping on the fact that these are each fictional characters.



#18
The Human Torch

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At a certain point the only true question is; If color/sex/age don't matter why do we care one way or the other?

I don't need Benjamin Sisko to be white...
I don't need Ellen Ripley to be male...
I don't need Tom Sawyer to be thirty-seven...

...to idolize, identify with or imagine being.

The argument that I'm white or male or whatever makes this different and I can't understand because of that is faulty logic because that is arguing that those DO matter.

So either everyone gets on board and says these things don't matter, that character is that character, or all these things do matter and the terrorists win. 'Murica!

#19
Justus

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You are...interesting, Torchie.



#20
Cerina

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At a certain point the only true question is; If color/sex/age don't matter why do we care one way or the other?

I don't need Benjamin Sisko to be white...
I don't need Ellen Ripley to be male...
I don't need Tom Sawyer to be thirty-seven...

...to idolize, identify with or imagine being.

The argument that I'm white or male or whatever makes this different and I can't understand because of that is faulty logic because that is arguing that those DO matter.

So either everyone gets on board and says these things don't matter, that character is that character, or all these things do matter and the terrorists win. 'Murica!

I wouldn't say that it doesn't matter. Age definitely matters. Gender/race/sexuality also matter. All of those affect a person, and for a good writer, would affect a character. Some in more dramatic ways than others. As much as we'd like to, we do not live in a color-blind gender-blind sexuality accepting culture.



#21
The Human Torch

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True. Things Matter. :-) That should be a bumper sticker.

But as much as this is said to be about equality, this... changing a character (or not, in this case) and the outrage over it is actually the reverse of equality if you just stop and think about it for a second.

Peter is a straight white nerdy male, but demands are that he be changed so differences are celebrated, validated and others can identify with his story because History.

This is a false premise.

Differences are celebrated and validated by accepting what is about a person not by changing a person to reflect you.

The intention should be questioned here and the intention is vocal for all to see. The proponents for this very just cause of equality and acceptance are breaking their own position.

#22
CoLA

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I just want characters to look like and be the way they are in the comics. :|

#23
Pong Messiah

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i want the new spider hero to be nothing but a stick figure a human being of nondescript race gender sexuality or age who can reason with criminals of nondescript race gender sexuality or age goddammit is that too much to ask for a character i can just enjoy in peace for once



#24
Fozzie

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I just want to be disappointed by a big budget film


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#25
NumberSix

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I want a terrible blockbuster that pauses in the theater whenever I yell "CUT!", listens to my long list of suggested changes, immediately rewrites itself to suit my reality and no one else's, then resumes playing and turns into a super awesome movie that the whole world loves because I and only I got exactly what I wanted.

 

Seems fair to me.


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