Jump to content

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 208
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

We = "Cerina and a bunch of dudes". This entire discussion could really use more women "shoehorned" into it.

Boys like Star Wars because the heroes have powerful energy phalluses that come to their hands when needed and grow several times bigger. Boys hate more girls in Star Wars because they give them confu

"These things should happen naturally, not shoehorned in."   Naturally, like, how it happens in nature, where the ratio of men to women is more or less even.   But we're okay with having casts that ar

I put it down to people moaning.

 

I think this sort of criticism only works one way and the moaners don't complain when the numbers are in their favour and they're getting what they want.

 

I believe firmly in equality and diversity. And that is not only everyone having the same rights and opportunities but also being respected as individuals.

 

I know I'm a bit vocal sometimes. But if you look at the situation objectively, putting women or any other gender or minority for that matter, in after the fact is not a solution to the problem. It's just a band aid to keep the moaners quiet. It doesn't fix anything at all. And the moaners just look smug and claim a moral victory.

 

There is a need for change. But it needs to happen fundamentally or not at all. It also needs to be about equality for everyone regardless of gender, race, creed or sexual preference.

 

Society only deals with these issues by appeasement. The real changes need to happen at the very top of every government and every business to make a real difference. It's not achieved by quotas though. They're just for the look of things in my book.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So the solution is to never "moan" about things that need to be addressed? No one should ever try to spur change, lest that speeds up how it should occur naturally?

 

Even the way you address the "moaners" and "feminists" in this thread is evidence that they're way way WAY behind the eight-ball from the get go. They have no hope as long as they're viewed as bitchy women who've forgotten their place in the world.

I think this sort of criticism only works one way and the moaners don't complain when the numbers are in their favour and they're getting what they want

 

Which would be when exactly in this instance? When have the numbers ever been in favor or even remotely close to in favor of women in Hollywood (or people watching women in Hollywood)? It's at every level and totally institutionalized. That is exactly why adding a "Band-Aid" like casting Christie/Nyong'o in "male" roles is a brilliant first step. In fact, it's the only first step.

 

This whole "fundamentally or not at all" outlook is patently crazy. You can't go from 0 to 100, there are steps along the way.

Link to post
Share on other sites

That speaks to a big pet peeve of mine. If you compliment something you're automatically an ass kisser. But hate on something people don't look for a hidden agenda just think you're "keeping it real"

Link to post
Share on other sites

So the solution is to never "moan" about things that need to be addressed? No one should ever try to spur change, lest that speeds up how it should occur naturally?

 

Even the way you address the "moaners" and "feminists" in this thread is evidence that they're way way WAY behind the eight-ball from the get go. They have no hope as long as they're viewed as bitchy women who've forgotten their place in the world.

I think this sort of criticism only works one way and the moaners don't complain when the numbers are in their favour and they're getting what they want

 

Which would be when exactly in this instance? When have the numbers ever been in favor or even remotely close to in favor of women in Hollywood (or people watching women in Hollywood)? It's at every level and totally institutionalized. That is exactly why adding a "Band-Aid" like casting Christie/Nyong'o in "male" roles is a brilliant first step. In fact, it's the only first step.

 

This whole "fundamentally or not at all" outlook is patently crazy. You can't go from 0 to 100, there are steps along the way.

The band aids don't fix things though... even cumulatively.

 

I refer to Driver's earlier post about him sitting in exec meetings and them looking for the money making demographic when casting actors. Money will always rule these people's heads. They have backers and shareholders who want to make their money back and it's their job to bring that money in, not to count how many women are in a film/TV Show. Until that changes we can only hope for change.

 

You also keep quoting only part of my posts and paraphrasing what I've said. Taking some things out of context too i might add. Why not address the real issue of quotas and what they mean and why they don't solve anything?? Only money talks to these people which is why fundamental change is the only change that works.

Link to post
Share on other sites

No.

 

I'm saying you never hear any sort of vocal minority saying they are tired of hearing about representation. 90% of the time the people who call it PC pandering happen to be white men.

Lucas is a white male feminist apologist so that more than makes up for it IMO :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Why not address the real issue of quotas and what they mean and why they don't solve anything??

Because nobody is talking about quotas. Nobody is saying "you must have 40 percent female characters or else". I'm talking about increasing the overall representation of women, which does change things. I attended a panel all about Princess Leia this past weekend, and there were several male audience members who commented that Leia taught them women can do anything, and they use Leia as a role model for their daughters/sisters. All the female panelists and audience members commented how Leia inspired them. There should be more characters than just Leia for women and girls to look up to.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Why not address the real issue of quotas and what they mean and why they don't solve anything??

Because nobody is talking about quotas. Nobody is saying "you must have 40 percent female characters or else". I'm talking about increasing the overall representation of women, which does change things. I attended a panel all about Princess Leia this past weekend, and there were several male audience members who commented that Leia taught them women can do anything, and they use Leia as a role model for their daughters/sisters. All the female panelists and audience members commented how Leia inspired them. There should be more characters than just Leia for women and girls to look up to.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with you Mara.

 

Apart from nobody's talking about quotas because I am. I sort of raised the issue in the first place. People have also used ratios to show the proportional representation of women in the thread.

 

So if there is no such thing as quotas... how do you define adequate representation? 50% of the population are female... so 50%? Is that not a quota? What is acceptable?

 

Going back to my earlier post about what I believe is the solution to the percieved inequality (that some of you tactically disregarded)... can you tell me what you believe is the solution and bring about change?

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Does anyone complain when they're getting what they want?

 

"This cake is too good! I don't want this!"

My wife says something similar in bed.

 

"You eat too much cake. I don't want this!"?

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Why not address the real issue of quotas and what they mean and why they don't solve anything??

Because nobody is talking about quotas. Nobody is saying "you must have 40 percent female characters or else". I'm talking about increasing the overall representation of women, which does change things. I attended a panel all about Princess Leia this past weekend, and there were several male audience members who commented that Leia taught them women can do anything, and they use Leia as a role model for their daughters/sisters. All the female panelists and audience members commented how Leia inspired them. There should be more characters than just Leia for women and girls to look up to.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with you Mara.

 

Apart from nobody's talking about quotas because I am. I sort of raised the issue in the first place. People have also used ratios to show the proportional representation of women in the thread.

 

So if there is no such thing as quotas... how do you define adequate representation? 50% of the population are female... so 50%? Is that not a quota? What is acceptable?

 

Going back to my earlier post about what I believe is the solution to the percieved inequality (that some of you tactically disregarded)... can you tell me what you believe is the solution and bring about change?

 

50 percent would be nice. I don't think that's going to happen, but I think it should be the goal. However, my enjoyment of something doesn't hang on whether or not there's equal representation. I loved the rebooted Planet of the Apes movies and those suck as far as women's roles are concerned. I always say a lack of diversity doesn't make a good story bad, nor does it make a bad story good, but it can make a good story even better. So why not err on the side of diversity? Why not err on the side of realism? (Yes, even in Star Wars, that type of realism is important.)

 

I believe the solution is to talk about diversity and why it's important. My solution is to buy Star Wars products aimed at women, which is why I spent hundreds of dollars at Celebration this past weekend. My solution is to ask for more female representation wherever possible. My solution is to point out that all characters don't need to be straight white males. (In fact, it makes a story better if they're not.)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Haha. 1.33 per movie. And that's counting the ones that don't matter.

 

 

 

 

[MSNBC talking head]It is that king of language that oppresses the sisters of the world!! You cannot be tolerated!! All women matter, you sexist piece of shit![MSNBC talking head]

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

As Kathleen Kennedy said, to have only two major female characters just doesn't make sense.

[Mon Mothma]"W--what?? Did I have a bulge in my pants or something? Is that why you skipped over me? I. Was. Running. The. Show in ROTJ. Damn it!!"[/Mon Mothma]

 

Major role meaning starring role, not the imaginary plot narrative version of importance. Mon Mothma may have been the leader of the Alliance but she had once scene and just a few lines.

 

Starring role or not, it was still a significant female character. That is what impressionable minds will process, not the fact that it was or was not major for the performer.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not going to bother reading the whole thread, so I'm sorry if it's already been said, but if this were about major characters in the original trilogy and prequels, it would be called "Woman in Star Wars" so obviously the (film) franchise is more representative of the general human population than it has been in the past.

 

I don't see how this could possibly be a bad or offensive thing.

 

I mean if the movie is set on a prison planet for men, or there was some horrible, deadly epidemic that killed 90% of the women and left most of the survivors mute, OK fine -- don't have women. If the story calls for specific demographics, don't be afraid to use 'em. But there is no compelling reason in the SW universe I can think of to have only one or two females with speaking roles per film.

 

Seriously... is there? Can you think of one? Think hard!

 

Yeah didn't think so

 

So basically if you are whining about or arguing against more women in Star Wars you are being silly and will most likely be embarrassed about it in a few years. Stop it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...