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X-Men: Apocalypse

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69 replies to this topic

#26
El Chalupacabra

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I like it more dismissed to an alternate timeline

 For a while, I've just considered it a one-off, stand alone movie with a different with a different take on Wolverine existing outside the series, that just happened to have the same actor. 



#27
DML

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I even enjoyed parts of Wolverine Origins.


Who even are you?!!! It has to be one of the worst high budget marvel movies ever made!

#28
Axis

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I even enjoyed parts of Wolverine Origins.


Who even are you?!!! It has to be one of the worst high budget marvel movies ever made!

 

I dunno if we should be calling these "marvel movies." But otherwise, I'm with you. That movie is just downright hilarious. 

 

I'm gonna wait for video on X-Men Apocalypse, I think. These movies just kind of fail to give me the thing that I enjoy from X-Men stories, and that's long form stories in which characters and conflicts are built and deepened over time. Claremont's run on the series, which is the reason X-Men is considered superhero holy ground, is all about soap opera storytelling, whereas these movies just take these very shallow renditions of these characters and throw them at a problem so they can save the world. The X-Men don't really do a whole lot of world-saving. Thats not what it's really about. My ideal X-Men adaptation is a Netflix series with storylines involving the Morlocks and Genosha, rather than saving the world from Magneto for the umpteenth time.



#29
Driver

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Narratively, X-Men belongs on TV in a one-hour dramatic format. The comics were always long form soap operas with big-action set-pieces for act breaks. X-Men won't be properly realized in live action for another decade or so. Once movie-level special effects can be done on a TV budget/time-frame, then its on. I should be powerful enough by then to command it!

 

OR, if the Gunslinger is still going to do this hybrid TV/movie release plan AND it is successful, I could see that happening.



#30
Poe Dameron

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I feel it was properly realized well enough in X2.

 

Really, I get where you're coming from, but I do think that X-Men actually can work in the 2.5 hour format and keep its soap opera roots.  If you tell me it'll be on television, I fear it would be limited in scope to, at best, somewhere around the first film no matter how much the tech proceeds because of physical and planning bottlenecks for putting together a big battle scene between many different superpowered beings with flashy powers.

 

The proof of concept is there that the X-Men can tell a satisfying adaptation of a full storyline.  Heck, if The Last Stand and Origins: Wolverine hadn't disappointed, they would have beaten Disney to the punch in creating an expansive universe of connected films.


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#31
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I feel it was properly realized well enough in X2.

 

Really, I get where you're coming from, but I do think that X-Men actually can work in the 2.5 hour format and keep its soap opera roots.  If you tell me it'll be on television, I fear it would be limited in scope to, at best, somewhere around the first film no matter how much the tech proceeds because of physical and planning bottlenecks for putting together a big battle scene between many different superpowered beings with flashy powers.

 

The proof of concept is there that the X-Men can tell a satisfying adaptation of a full storyline.  Heck, if The Last Stand and Origins: Wolverine hadn't disappointed, they would have beaten Disney to the punch in creating an expansive universe of connected films.

Yeah, especially with X3.  They set it up like it was going to be a cliff hanger with a follow up with an X4, resurrecting characters.  But they followed it up with Xmen Origins Wolverine, which was a prequel, then took forever to come out with another film, which was yet another prequel.   It wasn't until The Wolverine and DOFP that things got on track and connected with X3 again, and then they had to reboot everything to untangle X3.  

 

Really, by themselves all of the x-films, even x3 are at the very least, decent movies. But they could have been better at connecting the movies together sooner.   I hated X3 because it seemed that was how we were going to be left hanging until 2013.  That is 7 freaking years to connect to a movie ending that should have been resolved in the very next film.  But now that it has been resolved, I actually can relax about X3, and enjoy rewatching it, knowing things do work out.  But I tell ya, before it was "fixed,"  I was pissed at X3 for a long time. 

 

Not to mention, Fox dropped the ball with FF: Rise of the Silver Surfer, and missed an opportunity with an Xmen\Fantastic Four crossover. The cast of the first 2 FF movies was just fine,  they just screwed the story of ROTSS up.  And now we have this crappy reboot FF movie that makes a crossover with the first cast of FF impossible. 



#32
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I was just pissed at X3 because Wolverine cried. What?

#33
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Ended up going with a group to see this one. I was fully aware of the fact of my own existance and mortality for every second of the two and a half hours. That's how tedious it was. The Quicksilver scene was like an oasis in the desert even if it made no sense.

#34
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And ... let's be real ... that was basically a ripoff of the scene in the previous movie. They had to check that box

#35
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These X-men movies are just horrid at the continuity game. But otherwise, like Driver, I'm pretty much on board with all of them.

 

Back to my OCD continuity hate, though. Is it ever explained how Mystique is the ultimate X-men good gal at the end of Apocalypse but by the time the Patrick Stewart X-films come around she's wholly on team Magneto? 



#36
Darth Krawlie

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Literally none of the movies but first class, days of future past, and apocalypse count in the timeline anymore. Maybe wolverine origins, actually, pretty sure most of it took place before DOFP

#37
Driver

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Continuity is still there, just altered

 

 

Wolverine Origins (pre 70s) -- First Class --- DOFP (when Mystique kills Trask) ------- X1----X2-----X3-------- DOFP (Dark future)

                                                        |

                                                        |

                                                        DOFP (Mystique doesn't kill Trask) ----- Apocalypse---- (alt versions of original X1-3)--- Alt DOFP future

 

 

And some how changes in the timeline has effected odd things like when Xavier lost his hair and ability to walk, and ignores the fact that several characters have appeared different times played by different peoples, in different eras, with different powers. Or that Trask went from being a black man to a white dwarf.

 

And I'm sure future movies and TV shows will all now fit between Apocalypse and the happy future seen at the end of DOFP.

 

Technically it even makes Deadpool possible by the fact that Stryker's work is clearly altered in DOFP so one can assume Wade was never acquired by his unit so he went on to be a mercenary in his own way.

 

Again though-- doesn't explain how Colossus went from being a young American kid to an older Russian dude.


Edited by Driver, 30 May 2016 - 04:09 PM.


#38
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So to answer Gman's question...

 

At the end of FC you see Mystique choose Magneto over Charles and by DOFP she is not with him, but still clearly influenced by his "any means necessary" manifesto. She's fighting for mutant rights, harshly so-- which is in line with what we see in the original X-trilogy.

 

But in DOFP, ultimately she is stopped from killing Trask, and Charles manages to get through to her and make her see the error of her ways. She's not an X-Man, but she has been swayed from being totally evil.



#39
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Continuity is still there, just altered

 

More than altered.  It's pretty well tossed out the window.  You've got to let a ton of continuity errors slide for it to work (even if you politely ignore Origins: Wolverine which has continuity issues going well beyond Deadpool).

 

Obviously, they rebooted the franchise and then somebody had the bright idea that merging the two timelines would rub off some legitimacy onto the new cast.  I'll give them credit, it actually worked (plus Jennifer Lawrence and Michael Fassbender picked up some clout). I'd still rather see the old cast back.

 

What I've never been able to figure out is why they went to so much trouble to make The Wolverine, and even leave it open to possible continuing adventures, only to turn around and wipe it out of continuity within 10 months of release.  They even teased it at the end.  Talk about pointless.



#40
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This is fun! It's like the reverse of that old "I'll explain any and all continuity errors" thread for TPM.

 

Technically, yes-- by being distraught over dead Jean, and Prof X and Eric coming for him in the end, it does seem as if it is set in the original timeline.

 

But given that he time travelled within his own body, and given his timeless nature, it would seem that Logan may contain the memories of both timelines. Not unlike Guinan in Next Generation's Yesterday's Enterprise.

 

OR

 

Maybe The Wolverine happens in the current continuity and he is haunted by Jean either way-- he does love her still and Cyclops still gets her-- he could still pine away. 

 

And the end when Charles and Eric come for his help-- who's to say that just because the Sentinels were stopped back in the 70s that they aren't a threat again-- a threat Logan would be keen on putting down considering he has a possible glimpse into a possible Sentinel apocalypse future.



#41
Poe Dameron

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But given that he time travelled within his own body, and given his timeless nature, it would seem that Logan may contain the memories of both timelines. Not unlike Guinan in Next Generation's Yesterday's Enterprise.

 

Fair enough.  He presumably does keep his memories.  And if the next movie uses those memories in some way that makes The Wolverine pertinent, I'll retract the statement.  Until then, I'm going with it being an odd exercise.

 

 

 

Maybe The Wolverine happens in the current continuity and he is haunted by Jean either way-- he does love her still and Cyclops still gets her-- he could still pine away.

 

That's a bit far though.  He dreams that he impales her again and flat out tells someone else that he killed her.  It's clearly the original timeline.



#42
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SPOILERS

Hey, remember that part where Charles just said "Peace out, bro." and let Magneto leave the mansion after he killed several million people?

Good times.



#43
Driver

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But given that he time travelled within his own body, and given his timeless nature, it would seem that Logan may contain the memories of both timelines. Not unlike Guinan in Next Generation's Yesterday's Enterprise.

 

Fair enough.  He presumably does keep his memories.  And if the next movie uses those memories in some way that makes The Wolverine pertinent, I'll retract the statement.  Until then, I'm going with it being an odd exercise.

 

 

 

Maybe The Wolverine happens in the current continuity and he is haunted by Jean either way-- he does love her still and Cyclops still gets her-- he could still pine away.

 

That's a bit far though.  He dreams that he impales her again and flat out tells someone else that he killed her.  It's clearly the original timeline.

 

Maybe even though he knows it happened in a different timeline he still carries the guilt of ever having done it at all.



#44
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Well that was... something. For starters, and the biggest problem for me: THE BLOCKING IN THIS MOOOOVIIIEEEEEE. Holy F. The four horseman stand around in the background twiddling their thumbs for like 75% of the movie! DO SOMETHING!
Other than that this felt like a slightly more memorable, competent re-make of X3. This was bad, but bad in a way that felt like I was watching a really long adaptation of the cartoon. Yeah, the dialogue was garbage, but it felt self-aware enough that it bordered on "purposeful" camp? Like, almost a careful homage to comic book simplicity... ? Maybe I'm just reading too much into it. I haven't been this confused by a movie in a long time. Screw you, Bryan Singer. 

I just have to list things:

Oscar Isaac did fine, I guess. It was kind of like Tom Hardy's Bane: you can tell he was doing his best, but it was mostly a lot of grand, ominous speeches made behind too much costume. 

Psylocke could have just as easily been replaced by a slab of beef.

Quicksilver was awesome again.
Nightcrawler was cool. But no one had any character development, so, despite that he was fine.

McCavoy and Fassbender both act their butts off again, kudos to them.

Yay! Cyclops wasn't a waste of space.

Oh, hey Storm, so, yeah, uh, you helped kill a lot a people out there... come join our school! Magneto I can understand because part of his power is that can turn good and bad depending on how strong the wind is blowing.

I can't remember the precise line, but "the Professor is in the middle of the pyramid" is my new favorite line from any movie ever.
I always love when flightsuits just happen to be waiting for the main characters, and they just happen to fit.
Apocalypse has fantastic fashion design powers.

I counted and they say "Charles!" 187 times in this movie.

Moira does precisely NOTHING in this movie. Nobody does anything in this movie.

This is going to sound strange, but a lot of the costume designs were so good that I actually found it a bit distracting. 

 

Oh and WHY THE **** DID APOCALYPSE SEND THE NUKES INTO SPACE IF HE WANTED TO KILL EVERYONE ANYWAY!!??
Sorry for the caps, but this deserves it.
 



#45
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Maybe even though he knows it happened in a different timeline he still carries the guilt of ever having done it at all.

 

If I remember correctly, she asks Wolverine to stay with her in death near the end of the movie too.  Doesn't work if Jean's running around out there.

 

Anyway, heard that X-23 will be in the new Wolverine movie.  Thought that was a very good idea since Hugh Jackman is leaving the role.  They can keep "Wolverine" in the franchise without having to recast Jackman for awhile if X-23 assumes the mantle.  But then realized that Patrick Stewart as Xavier probably means that she's showing up too late to be in a movie starring McAvoy (if they can keep him).

 

Ugh, if I were in charge of Fox, I'd have Cable and Deadpool streamlining the continuity of this universe as one of the threads in their movie together.  You want a meta plot device for a Deadpool movie, there you go.  They should have the budget in the next one to bring in a few cameos.  He can fight Origins: Wolverine Deadpool at the end.



#46
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Why is everybody acting like there wasn't some kind of mind control going on? Are the 4 Horsemen really to blame for the loss of life?

#47
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Magneto seemed pretty intent on killing dudes before he met Apocalypse. Psyclocke was already the strong arm for some shady human trafficker. Storm... maybe, because she mentions the line about "we've got laws" etc. And Angel was just a non-descript placeholder, there's no way of knowing.



#48
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But given that he time travelled within his own body, and given his timeless nature, it would seem that Logan may contain the memories of both timelines. Not unlike Guinan in Next Generation's Yesterday's Enterprise.

 
Fair enough.  He presumably does keep his memories.  And if the next movie uses those memories in some way that makes The Wolverine pertinent, I'll retract the statement.  Until then, I'm going with it being an odd exercise.
 
 
 

Maybe The Wolverine happens in the current continuity and he is haunted by Jean either way-- he does love her still and Cyclops still gets her-- he could still pine away.

 
That's a bit far though.  He dreams that he impales her again and flat out tells someone else that he killed her.  It's clearly the original timeline.

Maybe even though he knows it happened in a different timeline he still carries the guilt of ever having done it at all.


I'm going with him having both sets of memories. Maybe it's not just the Weapon X stuff that has his brain fried and confused when we see him in Apocalypse...maybe it's having two lifetimes worth of memories crammed in his brain. Maybe that will be part of what makes this sendoff movie so special, because he's the only character in the franchise that is aware of both timelines other than a handful of others...and the only one to experience both timelines.

However, young Xavier read his mind and saw memories of the Weapon X program in Logans mind before they actually happened because of the mind jumping. Might make sense that he runs into him somehow,even if in some astral context, because who the hell else could help him sort through two lifetimes worth of memories?

#49
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Oh yeah...and I saw the movie. Everyone knows Apocalypse is my favorite Marvel villain.

They obviously only wrote this "body jumping" nonsense in to explain the crux of the movie with him wanting to jump into Xavier. The moment I saw pruny Apocalypse in the beginning, I wanted to kick Bryan Singer in the dick. He can materialize body transferring machines out of thin air. He can survive some weird suspended animation out in the open air beneath a pile of rocks and debris. So why can't he just materialize a neat blue sarcophagus to go into suspended animation in, and to regenerate his health and stuff? Why couldn't he speak in his angry voice 24/7, which sounded close to the animated series version? We get that he's from Egypt, so why did he have to have a little blue Egyptian rubber hat on?

Not surprised with what happened to him either, considering Bryan Singer clearly enjoys killing characters off. No Azazel in DOFP? Oh hey, lets kill him! Because clearly if somebody doesn't appear on screen in a follow up movie, they must not be alive anymore...right?

If Singer is behind things...yeah, that's about right. Nevermind the next movie was going to have Mystique and Nightcrawler in it, nevermind any cool potential subplots. ***hole.

#50
Axis

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Why is everybody acting like there wasn't some kind of mind control going on? Are the 4 Horsemen really to blame for the loss of life?

Apocalypse having the ability to control minds opens up a loooooooooooooooooooooooooot of plot holes. Also, it's never explicitly stated that that's what he's doing. Magneto explains to Charles his reasoning for joining up.





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